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philsublime -> questions and remarks (6/10/2007 4:42:23 PM)

As I already mentioned, I really like this game. It has a certain charm to it. And it's challenging and simple at the same time. I few questions:

1. What would be the purpose of not sending in all the planes on a strike? In other words, why would I hold off certain planes?
2. What would be a reason to not use the cohesive strike button?
3. Is there any way I can check how the repairs are going on? Is there even repairs on damaged planes and ships?
4. What is the carrier screen good for, except checking if the planes are in and order them to refuel/rearm?

All my questions have something to do with the fact, that in the scenarios I played, it was all about hitting fast(at best first) and hitting hard. Like this, the long time given in certain scenarios(for example coral sea, 9 days) seems useless, because once the carriers are gone, it's more or less decided in terms of objective points for sinking ships. Fullfilling resp. hindering the opponent to achieve the condition is pretty much always possible by just sending all the remaining ships to the objective as cannonfodder to run out the clock (I know this may be considered "dumb playing", but still...). The carriers to me just don't appear like this big fortresses, but more like expensive weapons you can just use once, that's it...

Can any of you clear my last doubts?




CJMello63 -> RE: questions and remarks (6/10/2007 4:46:28 PM)

#2. Some planes may not make it while burning fuel waiting for the entire group to assemble and have to land missing the strike.




philsublime -> RE: questions and remarks (6/10/2007 5:07:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CJMello63

#2. Some planes may not make it while burning fuel waiting for the entire group to assemble and have to land missing the strike.


Thanks. I assumed if you click the cohesive strike button, the whole strike is calculated in making it together. This clears it up, so you can basically just do it in pretty short range, I assume. This sort of explains why I always have much less planes actually bombing as my opponent...




LarryP -> RE: questions and remarks (6/10/2007 5:33:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philsublime

As I already mentioned, I really like this game. It has a certain charm to it. And it's challenging and simple at the same time. I few questions:

1. What would be the purpose of not sending in all the planes on a strike? In other words, why would I hold off certain planes?
2. What would be a reason to not use the cohesive strike button?
3. Is there any way I can check how the repairs are going on? Is there even repairs on damaged planes and ships?
4. What is the carrier screen good for, except checking if the planes are in and order them to refuel/rearm?

All my questions have something to do with the fact, that in the scenarios I played, it was all about hitting fast(at best first) and hitting hard. Like this, the long time given in certain scenarios(for example coral sea, 9 days) seems useless, because once the carriers are gone, it's more or less decided in terms of objective points for sinking ships. Fullfilling resp. hindering the opponent to achieve the condition is pretty much always possible by just sending all the remaining ships to the objective as cannonfodder to run out the clock (I know this may be considered "dumb playing", but still...). The carriers to me just don't appear like this big fortresses, but more like expensive weapons you can just use once, that's it...

Can any of you clear my last doubts?


Phil;

You asked exactly the same questions I have had on my mind since late last night. I am also playing the Coral Sea scenario and I am going in and hitting hard, losing my carriers and wondering what to do the remaining eight days! I suppose we will have to be more "cat and mouse" type style. It makes it harder too when the Japanese have so many more planes and ships.

From the successful posts I've read, timing is everything in this game. Using every button possible to monitor your units seems to be key to staying alive.

#1: I wonder this too as I send in every plane I have. The Japs hit hard with tons of planes so I try to do the same back at them. I am curious as to the answer you get here from someone better at this than me.

#2: I have used this cohesive button and not used it. I suppose if you have slower planes and you need to get in as fast as possible then not using it would be best. Like I said, timing is everything and a group of slower planes may keep you from hitting when you should. The Japs seem to hit in waves and they sure wipe me out.

#3: It seems that I saw something in the manual about repairs take too long for these short scenarios. If not then I read it in a post here. Coral Sea is by far the longest scenario we have. I thought about sending one of my TG's to a port to get repaired and then I remembered I only had a few days left. It's not like War In The Pacific by any means in that respect.

#4: I think using this screen to monitor where your planes are helps to get in and out fast. For instance when you see your planes "inbound" then you can plan around that to move your group out before the Japs nail you?

My carriers are supposed to be protected by the other ships, destroyers etc. and the supporting ships could do a better job in my opinion. I keep wanting to add supporting ships to my TF's but then I remember this is not that kind of game. I wish we could adjust them instead of taking what is dished out. I would double the supporting ships in every TF.

I hope you get some good answers to your great questions. I am watching here too as I need ALL the help I can get! Thanks for asking them and have fun playing. I sure am! [sm=00000036.gif]




Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: questions and remarks (6/10/2007 5:35:30 PM)

Cohesive/coordinated strikes also just take longer to organize, this in an environment where getting in the first hack is vital. And in 1942, the U.S. absolutely sucked at it. The A/C types had different best cruise altitudes and they were forever losing track of one another on the way to the target.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)




Caltone -> RE: questions and remarks (6/10/2007 10:52:15 PM)

When you're setting up your strike, check the time over target, and flight time boxes on the strike screen as you turn cohesive strike on and off.

The tutorial and manual explain pertty well what it means and the above will show you how it affects the strike's timing.




LarryP -> RE: questions and remarks (6/11/2007 12:21:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caltone

When you're setting up your strike, check the time over target, and flight time boxes on the strike screen as you turn cohesive strike on and off.

The tutorial and manual explain pertty well what it means and the above will show you how it affects the strike's timing.


Good advice. I read that the strike arrives at the slowest planes speed with Cohesion turned on. Makes sense. I suppose that in some cases that may be a good thing, but so far I have needed them in fast!




CommC -> RE: questions and remarks (6/11/2007 1:29:43 AM)

In regards to #2, if you don't use cohesion, you can hopefully get in a quick strike to catch the enemy before he has launched his strike, catching the enemy planes loaded and fueled on the deck, al la the US success at Midway. The cost at Midway was the loss of almost all the torpedo bombers which arrived first.

Normally, you would want cohesion to get a coordinated strike that will be more effective by striking from both low altitude with torpedoes and high altitude with bombers at the same time, but the cost is lowered range and more time elapsed before the strike reaches the target.




NefariousKoel -> RE: questions and remarks (6/11/2007 1:37:55 AM)

Yeah, I've not used Cohesive when I was close and dawn was approaching in the hopes that I would hit him first and hopefully stop enemy flight ops on their carriers.  I think I lost more aircraft that way but the end result was what I wanted.




Adam Parker -> RE: questions and remarks (6/11/2007 3:15:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philsublime

As I already mentioned, I really like this game. It has a certain charm to it. And it's challenging and simple at the same time. I few questions:


I couldn't have asked these questions better. I looks like some of us are on the same page here [:)]

Re Coral Sea, Gregor mentioned not to rush playing the US as it lasts 8-9 days. Ok so I moved around and waited for a day...

Still got creamed [:'(]

I agree in Coral Sea, you have to rush right up the centre, see your flyboys miss everything (I once sank the Shoho - that was nice)...

and get creamed [:)]




Gregor_SSG -> RE: questions and remarks (6/11/2007 3:59:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philsublime

As I already mentioned, I really like this game. It has a certain charm to it. And it's challenging and simple at the same time. I few questions:

1. What would be the purpose of not sending in all the planes on a strike? In other words, why would I hold off certain planes?
2. What would be a reason to not use the cohesive strike button?
3. Is there any way I can check how the repairs are going on? Is there even repairs on damaged planes and ships?
4. What is the carrier screen good for, except checking if the planes are in and order them to refuel/rearm?

All my questions have something to do with the fact, that in the scenarios I played, it was all about hitting fast(at best first) and hitting hard. Like this, the long time given in certain scenarios(for example coral sea, 9 days) seems useless, because once the carriers are gone, it's more or less decided in terms of objective points for sinking ships. Fullfilling resp. hindering the opponent to achieve the condition is pretty much always possible by just sending all the remaining ships to the objective as cannonfodder to run out the clock (I know this may be considered "dumb playing", but still...). The carriers to me just don't appear like this big fortresses, but more like expensive weapons you can just use once, that's it...

Can any of you clear my last doubts?


You would usually want to send all your planes against an enemy carrier sighting, but not always, and there's always multiple targets to consider. Lets take Coral Sea as an example. As well as the enemy fleet carriers, there are the Shoho, the Kamikawa, the invasion force and the warships, which can all end up in roughly the same area.

If you're luck enough to know that the fleet carriers are too far away, or its too late in the afternoon for them to strike, then you can attack the other targets with impunity. You only need to escort a strike against the Shoho, the others can go unescorted. Remember, every launch has its own attrition from prangs on takeoff and landings.

If you don't know where the enemy carriers are, you might still consider launching your Devastators against a soft target like the Kamikawa. They are pretty useless against real targets and only slow down any strike they're in.

As for Cohesive, its usually the best option against targets with CAP, as then your bombers and fighters arrive more or less together. Bombers arriving without escort tend to get shredded by CAP and a plane killed or even damaged doesn't get to release its weapon. However it does slow the strike down, especially if the Devastators are included. Worse still, since cohesive planes must fly at the speed of the slowest plane, including a slow plane may cause the strike to return after night or even make a target out of range to a plane that could reach it flying independently. Check those target boxes carefully when you're considering all this.

Planes can get repaired, ships can't. However a ship's damage control efforts can extinguish fire damage, which can reduce its overall damage level.

The carrier screen is useful for checking just what your planes are up to, some people use it more than others. Its handy to watch a couple of strikes cycle through the arm/fuel/takeoff routine as this will give you a good feeling for how it will be after you hit the launch button that planes are actually on their way to the target.

Nobody ever though of carriers as a fortress. Even late in the war, when the US had carrier operations down to a fine art, the Japanese resorted to kamikaze attacks which caused major problems to fleets that had become very adept at defeating conventional attacks.

The thing to remember about carrier warfare is that in the kigdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. One carrier, even with half its planes lost, still rules the roost if the other guy has no carriers left to oppose it.

As for the length of the Coral Sea scenario, it takes the Invasion fleet a long time to sail from Rabaul to Port Moresby. If the scenario is too short, that forces the Japanese onto a predictable timeline, a constraint that they didn't have historically.

Gregor





bradfordkay -> RE: questions and remarks (6/11/2007 4:21:06 AM)

"If you don't know where the enemy carriers are, you might still consider launching your Devastators against a soft target like the Kamikawa. They are pretty useless against real targets and only slow down any strike they're in."

Now that kinda ignores the actual attack on the Shoho, where the Devastators performed a near perfect anvil attack to sink the CVL...[;)]




Gregor_SSG -> RE: questions and remarks (6/11/2007 4:52:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"If you don't know where the enemy carriers are, you might still consider launching your Devastators against a soft target like the Kamikawa. They are pretty useless against real targets and only slow down any strike they're in."

Now that kinda ignores the actual attack on the Shoho, where the Devastators performed a near perfect anvil attack to sink the CVL...[;)]


Well, with Carriers at War you never quite know if you're going to get the Coral Sea Devastators or the Midway ones, though the odds unfortunately favour the Midway experience. Nevertheless, I always give a special cheer and feel lucky when the Devastators manage to get in a hit.

Gregor




82nd Airborne -> RE: questions and remarks (6/11/2007 6:53:59 PM)

Hi , have waited a long time for this kind of game, and am enjoying it so far. Looking forward to other scenarios coming out too.

Couple of questions though
1- arming/refuelling, is there some indicator showing how bad this is when suffering an enemy strike versus not having the planes armed/refuelled? At this point I've just kept arming them every night, but I know there must be a difference when taking damage. Seems like this should be another cat/mouse feature of the game, but I haven't been able to discern the effects.
2-CAP, again I seem to be missing the indicators showing how effective my CAP is or is not and as such altering the % of planes flying it doesn't really have me thinking strategy about it. As well, when a strike arrives, all planes go up on emergency CAP anyway. How effective is this? Should I just let emergency CAP handle the situation?

thanks




Gregor_SSG -> RE: questions and remarks (6/12/2007 2:56:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 82nd Airborne

Hi , have waited a long time for this kind of game, and am enjoying it so far. Looking forward to other scenarios coming out too.

Couple of questions though
1- arming/refuelling, is there some indicator showing how bad this is when suffering an enemy strike versus not having the planes armed/refuelled? At this point I've just kept arming them every night, but I know there must be a difference when taking damage. Seems like this should be another cat/mouse feature of the game, but I haven't been able to discern the effects.
2-CAP, again I seem to be missing the indicators showing how effective my CAP is or is not and as such altering the % of planes flying it doesn't really have me thinking strategy about it. As well, when a strike arrives, all planes go up on emergency CAP anyway. How effective is this? Should I just let emergency CAP handle the situation?

thanks


1. You will take more damage when caught with planes arming and fueling but we don't explicitly show that at the moment. It's something to think about for us.

2. You don't want to rely on emergency CAP, because it takes time to get planes into the air. Especially in the early war scenarios, you won't get much warning, so CAP already flying is much better than CAP on the deck and potentially flying.

Gregor




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