Rules to play by? (Full Version)

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TeK -> Rules to play by? (6/14/2007 10:32:05 AM)

This question might seem kind of weird but there seems to be a number of unrealistic yet devastating exploits in this game so im wondering what kind of manual rules you guys usually play with...

So far i've got the following that i can think of....

B-29's are not allowed to attack naval targets
level bombers are not allowed to attack naval targets any lower than 4000 feet
no landing troops on non-base hexes




Oliver Heindorf -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/14/2007 11:11:34 AM)

if you look up with the search function for house rules (which has room for become better [8|] ) you will find some really helpful threads regarding this topic iirc there were at least two rellay good and long ones with lots of ideas.

some ppl use lots of house rules, some ppl dont

here are mine I use

1.    No Amphibious Invasions without friendly air cover - either Land-based or CV
provided (Turns 1 and 2 are the only exception to this rule due to surprise) – this would not even be considered during the time – sub launched and small invasion – do not count towards this due to the small numbers of men involved

2.     No Amphibious Invasions (of greater than 1000 load size) without every unit in 
the invasion force with at least 30 Preparation Points for the destination - this is to simulate the training the units would receive prior to being sent to invade an enemy held island. This also included aerial paratrooper assaults as well. Overland attacks can proceed at any pace possible

3.     No rearming TFs in ports smaller than 3 without an AE present

4.     No refueling of capital ships in ports smaller than 3 without an AO or TK present
    (Capital ships are cruisers and larger)

5.     ASW TFs cannot exceed 10 ships

6.     PT Boats may not be included in TFs with other ships (exception: Rule #8)

7.     PT Boat TF may have a max of 6 ships in it

8.     PT Boat TF may only have other ships in it - or more than 6 - when transferring
between bases - using the extra ships as portable fuel sources

9.     No creating Barges / PT Boats at bases smaller than 3 or that are behind enemy lines - cut off. It is unrealistic to have new PT boats magically appear at bases behind enemy lines without having to sail there and be subjected to enemy attack

10.     Japanese Home Defense Air Units cannot be used on IJN Carriers without changing their HQs and paying the appropriate PP cost

11.     No port attacks other than Pearl Harbor allowed during turn 1

12.     The allies cannot simply pick up and withdraw from Malaya, PI, or the DEI without putting up significant fights. This will stop the allied player from playing on hindsight and evacuating all of the Dutch forces before they are even attacked - very unrealistic.

13.     No Allied CV Capable air units on CVs until 1/44 - designed to keep Marine Fighter groups off CVs

14.     Allied player may only give orders to US CVs at sea to represent possible early war warnings. The Allied player may NOT order US CVs back to PH on turn 1 to interrupt KB's attack on Pearl – nor order it to attack any base until turn 2

15.     Allied player may not give any orders except to US CV TFs at sea on turn 1

16.     The 1st & 2nd USMC Divisions cannot move beyond the Hawaiian islands (or west coast) until April 1st, 1942. This is to simulate when the 1st Div becomes
operational and the major concern for the defense of the Hawaiian Islands and
west coast.

17.    No units of the Kwangtung HQ may be moved out of the area without first paying
   The applicable PP costs (Land or Air units)

18.     Allied player may not "overly" strip India and southern oz of all troops.

19.    Allied level bombers may only fly once every 2 days. No big deal really - nobody who manages their allied bombing force does 2 in a row anyway. You mean just bombing runs – transfers and patrols are normal ?

20.    No Allied Heavy Bombers stationed in china – no 4 engine bombers may conduct
Bombing raids from Chinese bases – this to reflect the lack of fuel and supplies the Chinese had to use such planes – This is a new rule I came up with after seeing Rob base hundreds of Allied heavy bombers (RAF and US B-17s) in china to hit what should be secure rear bases

21 Japanese CVs on raiding missions are only allowed to stay 3 days east of Hawaii. KB was mainly used to defend the home islands against american attacks and even Yamamoto feared the allied CVs in 42.

there is of course always room for even more [:'(]




Feinder -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/14/2007 3:06:51 PM)

These are what Bilbow and I are using in our newest PBEM...

House Rules (it looks like a lot, but it's mostly common sense and "be nice"):
1. No level-bombing below 12,000' to allow for problems with code handling low altitude flak. Level bombing at 100' allowed in 1943 or later.
2. Invasions only on base or dot hexes.
3. Cadre evacuations allowed.
4. Single-ship TFs are allowed.
5. "Training" your squadrons is fine, but no "same-hex supply training" of bomber squadrons. Flying supplies into China (or wherever) with bombers is fine. But flying supply from San Francisco to Sacramento is not. Use discretion.
6. Kwangung units stay in Kwangtung bases unless PPs paid for transfer.
7. China Exped units stay in China unless PPs paid for transfer.
8. ChiCom units stay in China unless PPs paid for transfer.
9. IndiCom units stay in India unless PPS paid for transfer (those starting in Burma are exempt).
10. Only 1 port attack on turn 1.
11. No Japanese LCU naval invasions north of Tavoy until Singapore falls.
12. No Corsair's allowed on US carriers until 1/44. Except for transport missions.
13. USMC squadrons -are- allowed to operate from USN carriers, just as Japanese CV-capable sqdns are allowed on CVL/CVEs.
14. "Be realistic" with cutting off troops for surrender. A whole Btn would be sufficient to cut off a unit, but a few squads = no.
15. If you don't attack the Soviets on turn 1, please give 30 days lead time before attacking the Soviets (if you're going to do it), so I can come up with my own defensive posture. If you want to surprise the Soviets as well, you're welcome to beat the snot out of them with surprise on turn 1.
16. If you don't attack the Soviets on turn 1 (and also ambush their fleet), Stalin requires that he be allowed to relocate the Soviet fleet in a few weeks (when things have calmed down a little, you'd need to have nothing set to NavAtk around the Soviet ports so that I can move the fleet).
17. Allied TFs at sea at start may split into new TFs and issue new orders, but may not load troops.
18. Allied ships disbanded at start, may not be formed into new TFs until next turn.
19. No more than 6x PTs in a TF, and no more than 2x TFs per hex.
20. Max number of 4e squadrons per current base size (note a group = 3 squadrons):
AF(4) - 1 squadron
AF(5) - 2 sqadrons
AF(6) - 3 squadrons
AF(7) - 6 squadrons
AF(8) - 9 squadrons
AF(9+) - No limit
Exceptions made for in-transit (but those in transit will be stood down and not attacking anyway).
21. AF stacking limit of (50 * AF size), not counting those in transit (which should be stood down). No limit on AF(9+).
22. Sub evac = ok. Sub invasion = not ok.
23. No Allied 4Es in China until 1944.
24. No city attacks in China for either side.
25. Units in China including air units may issue new orders and/or relocate for first turn. This includes AVG in Mandalay.
26. No dividing LCUs into regiments for the sole purpose of combat in the same hex - this means the first unit gets beaten up, and the other 2 regiments get off scott free. Dividing an LCU in a rear area to accept replacements is fine, and dividing an LCU defend multiple hexes is fine.
27. No attacking with just suicide engineers. There is (or was) a bug where attacking LCUs got a 2nd bombardment attack if only ENG units attacked. We weren't sure if this was fixed or not, so we said no solo ENG unit attacks.
28. No "shock with pursuit" attacks.
29. Play a "gentleman's game". If you think it might be gamey, it probably is, so don't do it.





Javakamp -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/14/2007 3:17:10 PM)

Perhaps we could get the Mods to create a sticky thread for the posting of "House Rules".




Rafael Warsaw -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/14/2007 3:46:21 PM)

Feinder:

A very nice set.





qgaliana -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/14/2007 5:05:55 PM)

Self imposed rule I started to use against the AI. No offensive operations unless you pay PP to make a unit part of the correct HQ. So...

- Air groups need to match the base they are on to fly offensive missions (transit ok, cap ok - I figure if threatened they'd fight).
- Land units can only prep for and attack objectives in their theatre (transit again ok). However I figure you can prep for any base you are actually in (for example your shipping gets sunk while you were waiting on Timor - you might as well check out the area and find some maps).

Fuzzy sometimes, especially since the games has hardcoded HQs for recaptured bases, but it keeps some sanity in that I couldn't just load everything up and throw it wherever I wanted. Liked it enough I will try something similar with Japan when I get around to it. Only catch is ABDA - I generally allowed myself to use SEA units out of there, but try to avoid SWPAC units being used from their bases.




TeK -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/14/2007 8:24:17 PM)

wow thanks guys, didnt expect that much detailed response lol

"2. No Amphibious Invasions (of greater than 1000 load size) without every unit in
the invasion force with at least 30 Preparation Points for the destination - this is to simulate the training the units would receive prior to being sent to invade an enemy held island. This also included aerial paratrooper assaults as well. Overland attacks can proceed at any pace possible"...[&o]




Feinder -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/14/2007 9:47:42 PM)

quote:

wow thanks guys, didnt expect that much detailed response lol


Cut-n-paste is a wonderful thing.  Obviously, it's been asked before.  [;)]

Halsey just gave some altitude to the House Rules discussion thread.  More than you'll ever need in there...

-F-





Yamato hugger -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/14/2007 11:53:10 PM)

What I personally would like to see (WitP2 anyone?) is an option select screen with some of the more popular house rules on it so its selectable. For example: No 4E bomber naval attack. If its selected, any 4E group wouldnt even have the option to select naval attack so neither side would have to worry about an "oops".




moses -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/15/2007 1:03:41 AM)

This is all we've been using in my current game. Really I think people overdo the house rules sometimes. Keep it simple; play the game.

1.) PDU on but no 2E conversions to 4E.

2.) ASW TF's no more then 6 ships.

3.) Reasonable TF size. (i.e. no single ship TF's or things like haveing 50 single PT TF's in a hex.

4.) Restricted commands cannot leave area without paying PP's.

5.) No sub troops transport.

6.) Historical first turn-----This solves so many issues.

Unwritten--although I'm actually thinking its a good rule. No city attacks except for home islands




trojan58 -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/15/2007 2:31:32 AM)

The best house rule is "if it sounds dodgey it probably shouldn't be done"





jolly_pillager -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/15/2007 2:35:36 AM)

One that Wneumann and I are using is no units outside of their command zones (basically treat all HQ's as restricted).

This has severely limited me in my deployments to Burma, SE FLeet and 4th Fleet...entirely historically accurate as the Army was not very keen on sending forces out there into Navy turf at all.

It has also prevented any bizarre tactics such as loading up the Japanese Army and invading Hawaii, for example.




ctangus -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/15/2007 4:13:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: trojan

The best house rule is "if it sounds dodgey it probably shouldn't be done"



That's a good one. A variation of that is "Would I be upset if someone did that against me?"

There's another one I like - not really a rule, but an understanding: a willingness to discuss issues if & when they come up. Because this game is so complex I suspect every player has a slightly different idea on what's fair or not. I've had opponents who I certainly consider honorable still do things I thought were cheesy (not often, but once in a while). Reversely I've had opponents object to things I've done which I thought were fair. I'd rather discuss it, offer a re-do, etc. than pi$$ my opponent off.




Admiral DadMan -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/15/2007 5:02:12 AM)

When someone challenges me to a game, here are my house rules:

PLAY ON!

I personally enjoy seeing what someone can come up with. Just ask Speedy and Mogami.

Oh and no flicking boogers at the screen during combat replay...




carnifex -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/15/2007 4:59:24 PM)

quote:

10. Only 1 port attack on turn 1.


I always wonder why this rule seems to come up. As the Allied player I couldn't really care less if the Japanese strike every port within range. What am I going to lose that's so important it's going to tilt the game that it requires a house rule?




rockmedic109 -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/15/2007 5:05:00 PM)

A port attack on Manila would destroy 20 submarines. Even if they don't get many kills, I like to keep them because in a year they will be deadly.

Could the Japanese have launched a perfectly timed attack across the pacific? While the units involved are under radio silence? Would have been just about impossible to accomplish.




herwin -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/15/2007 5:37:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

A port attack on Manila would destroy 20 submarines. Even if they don't get many kills, I like to keep them because in a year they will be deadly.

Could the Japanese have launched a perfectly timed attack across the pacific? While the units involved are under radio silence? Would have been just about impossible to accomplish.


They had to do an early morning (8 am) attack at Pearl if they didn't want to sink that afternoon. That was 2 am in Manila and 1 am in Singapore.




treespider -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/15/2007 7:22:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: moses

6.) Historical first turn-----This solves so many issues.




Another alternative is to freeze Pearl Harbor but give the Allies free reign everywhere else on the map if not using the historical start...




Nikademus -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/15/2007 8:24:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: moses

6.) Historical first turn-----This solves so many issu


and creates a few too. [;)]




bobogoboom -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/16/2007 1:18:22 AM)

How so?




dtravel -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/16/2007 2:01:27 AM)

JFB's can't invade the Hawaiian Islands on December 8, 1941 under a historical first turn.  [:'(]




herwin -> RE: Rules to play by? (6/16/2007 9:56:22 AM)

WPPac-46 Rules (War Plan Orange)

This is intended as a PBEM scenario. It's probably best with CHS 2.0.8 or Treespider's CHS scenario (171) with house rules to support historical constraints.

Victory:

If the Allied player has a sea line of communications (a continuous path with air superiority) between North America and a fleet base in the Philippines and from there to a forward base in the Ryukyus, Korea, or Japan by 31 January 1944, he wins a decisive victory. If this requirement is met by 30 April 1944, this is a regular Allied victory. By 31 July 1944, a marginal victory, by 31 October 1944, a draw, by 31 January 1945, a Japanese marginal victory, by 30 April 1945, a Japanese regular victory, and by 31 July 1945 or later, a decisive Japanese victory.

If at any time, the Japanese player attacks a hex in Alaska, Hawaii (excluding Midway), or continental North America, the Allied player has an additional two years (just so) to meet his requirements for a victory.

Planning for assault landings:

An assault landing has to be planned at least one month in advance for each division or division-equivalent involved. Planning consists of designating the landing beach and ground forces to land there. Land forces involved in a division-sized or larger landing have to be withdrawn from combat at least one month in advance of the landings. The assault plan must designate the resources involved by name for land forces. The Japanese player is allowed to plan invasions as part of his prewar planning. Assault landings may be cancelled, but if they take place, they must be on the day planned or within a week after. Ground units may be allocated to multiple plans, but all but one plan must be cancelled one month before the landing date of the selected plan.

A parachute drop or air landing operation has to be planned at least one month in advance for each division or division-equivalent involved. Planning consists of designating the landing zone and ground forces to land there. Land forces involved in a division-sized or larger landing have to be withdrawn from combat at least one month in advance of the landings. The assault plan must designate the resources involved by name for land forces. The Japanese player is allowed to plan parachute landings as part of his prewar planning. Parachute drops and air landings may be cancelled, but if they take place, they must be on the day planned or within a week after. Units may be allocated to multiple plans, but all but one plan must be cancelled one week before the operation date of the selected plan.

Note that brigades or smaller may individually mount assault and parachute landings without preplanning. Multiple airdrops/air landings/assault landings on the same day in the same army area (e.g., 14th Army or the Solomons) or requiring staged use of transportation assets should be planned together. No quibbling.

The minimum force for an assault landing against a base is one battalion. The minimum force for a parachute drop or air landing on a base is one battalion. Smaller forces may be used against non-base hexes.

The house rules I'm currently using are as follows, but the historical first turn should obviously be off:

0. If a country didn't do something for solid operational reasons, don't do it. If it was not done for political reasons--OK to do it.

1. No bombing empty bases to artificially enhance pilot training. (See below.)

2. All Chinese land and air units that are assigned to China Command HQ are only permitted to move, or base, within China, Japanese Occupied China or Manchukuo. Chinese land and air units can ONLY move to locations outside China if they are first transferred to another HQ.

3. Air units belonging to China Command are allowed to fly missions to hexes outside China.

4. All Australian nationality Brigade and Division LCUs are only allowed to move within Australia Proper, DEI, Solomon Islands, New Britain, New Guinea (For flexibility purposes, I could reason that Australia would see those as part of it's expanded defense perimeter). The exception is all Australian LCUs of this size that are designated as AIF units, e.g. 9th Division AIF; the two AIF Brigades that start in Malaya. This restriction is permanent, even if the units are reassigned to a HQ other than ANZAC Command, and still applies even if a Division or Brigade is split into smaller units.

5. There are no restrictions for Australian air units, other than the normal restrictions that apply to air units that are assigned to the ANZAC Command restricted HQ.

6. Canadian land and air units can only be deployed in North America, including Canada, the USA, Alaska and the Aleutian Islands. This restriction is permanent, even if the units are reassigned to a HQ other than Canada Command.

7. Japanese land and air units that are assigned to the Kwantung Area Army HQ can not leave Manchukuo. They may leave if they are transferred to another HQ.

8. Naval Attack missions by 4 Engined Bombers must be at or above 10000 feet.

9. B29 only on level 6 or 7+ airfields, this should limit them to places that were big enough in real life.

10. Allied Bomber attacks against Infrastructure restricted to industrial sites owned by Japan prior to the war (prevent allied player from destroying key infrastruture that they would knock Japan out too early; Allies would not bomb friendly populations.)

11. No Japanese Surface Movement past Singapore until it has fallen.

12. No more than x50 aircraft per airfield level (does not count aircraft transiting through).

13. Japanese subs allowed to enter the shipping lanes.

Settings: PDU Off, Sub Doctrines On, Allied Damage Control On, Dec 7th Surprise, Historical Turn On, FOW, turn cycle 1 day. (Should be modified)

Added rules: No landing out of base/dots hexes and no aerial mining during day phase. Both are because of game code restrictions. First because the landing forces don't take casualties and disruption when unloading into a clear hex (not to mention the potential lack of suitable invasion beaches) and the second is because CAP doesn't intercept aerial mining missions. The third is no training fighter pilots on ground targets beyond 55 exp.

These house rules are just examples. It's the rules on victory, planning, and the underlying scenario that are intended to be mandatory. Planning plus scenario slow the players down to historical rates, while the victory rules allow the Japanese player to have a real chance of victory. If experience shows the victory rules are unbalanced, they can be adjusted very easily. Without the Pearl Harbor attack to keep America mad, the Japanese player had a very real chance of keeping something from the Pacific War--in 1941 American leadership wanted to beat Germany; Japan was not important. The War of 1812 was similar for the UK, with America playing the role of Japan.




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