Have anyone tested for this case of air combat?

Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (Full Version)

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zhengxuacmilan -> Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/15/2007 10:28:07 AM)
We all know that it is quite hard for allied CVs to fight with Japanese CVs before May 1942, when the zeros still have the bonus. Now I am quite curious about that, if it is possible, is it wise to use only one allied CV to fight with a japanese CVL? What about the result?

Apollo11 -> RE: Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/15/2007 10:34:37 AM)
Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: zhengxuacmilan We all know that it is quite hard for allied CVs to fight with Japanese CVs before May 1942, when the zeros still have the bonus. Now I am quite curious about that, if it is possible, is it wise to use only one allied CV to fight with a japanese CVL? What about the result? I have seen early 1942 battles where Allies have won teh CV vs. Cv conflict - anything can happen (and that's the beauty of WitP) - check the multitude of AARs! Also quantity many times manages to overcome the quality so US CV can beat tha Japanese CVL even at the beginning of the game... [:)] Leo "Apollo11"

rockmedic109 -> RE: Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/15/2007 10:44:16 AM)
From reading some of the other threads, the Maneuver Rating might help the Zero avoid getting shot down more than helping it to shoot something down. If this is the case, then go for it. An Allied CV vs an IJN CVL is a fight stacked in the allied favor. If you loose you get an Essex in 43 to replace the loss.

zhengxuacmilan -> RE: Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/15/2007 10:54:50 AM)
Hi Apollo, thank you for your reply. But I think if the distance is beyond the range of allied TB, the japanese bomber still have chance to hurt the allied CV heavily.

zhengxuacmilan -> RE: Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/15/2007 10:57:07 AM)
Yes, what u mentioned is quite important, thank u. quote: ORIGINAL: rockmedic109 From reading some of the other threads, the Maneuver Rating might help the Zero avoid getting shot down more than helping it to shoot something down. If this is the case, then go for it. An Allied CV vs an IJN CVL is a fight stacked in the allied favor. If you loose you get an Essex in 43 to replace the loss.

Apollo11 -> RE: Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/15/2007 11:28:41 AM)
Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: zhengxuacmilan But I think if the distance is beyond the range of allied TB, the japanese bomber still have chance to hurt the allied CV heavily. Every battle is a gamble... to get the feel of what is calculated risk and what is gamble is the art... Nonetheless in pure US CV vs. IJN CVL the Allies should prevail because they simply have much bigger air wing and they can have both strong CAP (for own CV protection) and good escorted attack - IJN CVL can't do both! Leo "Apollo11"

castor troy -> RE: Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/15/2007 12:25:11 PM)
I see the chances completely being at the Allied side when a US CV meets an IJN CVL! 90 US planes vs 27 IJN planes (mostly as there´s Ryuho? with 48 planes also).

herwin -> RE: Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/15/2007 2:45:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: castor troy I see the chances completely being at the Allied side when a US CV meets an IJN CVL! 90 US planes vs 27 IJN planes (mostly as there´s Ryuho? with 48 planes also). To maintain a CAP, you have to be able to launch and land. The Ryujo had a tiny flight deck on top of two hangers. It couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time--its deckload strike was on the order of 9 aircraft, and to handle a CAP it either had to strike aircraft down as they landed, or shuttle the few aircraft it could afford to keep on deck alert down the length of the flight deck. Can you spell AVT?

Nikademus -> RE: Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/15/2007 5:01:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zhengxuacmilan We all know that it is quite hard for allied CVs to fight with Japanese CVs before May 1942, when the zeros still have the bonus. Now I am quite curious about that, if it is possible, is it wise to use only one allied CV to fight with a japanese CVL? What about the result? Unless the die rolls go really badly for you, i see the CV winning over the CVL 9 times out of 10. "Winning" doesn't mean however that you might not eat a torp or two which could make things dicey for your CV.

spence -> RE: Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/15/2007 5:30:31 PM)
From the AAR of my CHS with Treespider..... quote: In a bold move a British task force containing the CV's Formidable and Indomitable appeared 180 miles south of Djokjakarta. The Task Force did not go unspotted and the Japanese Distant Cover Force containing the CVL's Zuiho and Ryujo responded and moved to engage the Task Force. Simultaneous strikes were launched by both sides. 02/16/42 Day Air attack on TF at 21,66 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 16 Allied aircraft Fulmar x 22 Albacore x 19 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed Allied aircraft losses Fulmar: 6 destroyed Albacore: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged Japanese Ships DD Amatsukaze CVL Zuiho, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CVL Ryujo, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage Aircraft Attacking: 3 x Albacore launching torpedoes at 200 feet 3 x Albacore launching torpedoes at 200 feet 4 x Albacore launching torpedoes at 200 feet 4 x Albacore launching torpedoes at 200 feet 4 x Albacore launching torpedoes at 200 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on TF at 21,66 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 6 Allied aircraft Fulmar x 4 Albacore x 17 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses Fulmar: 1 destroyed Albacore: 4 destroyed, 3 damaged Japanese Ships CVL Zuiho, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage Aircraft Attacking: 2 x Albacore launching torpedoes at 200 feet 4 x Albacore launching torpedoes at 200 feet 3 x Albacore launching torpedoes at 200 feet 4 x Albacore launching torpedoes at 200 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on TF at 18,64 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 15 B5N2 Kate x 17 Allied aircraft Sea Hurricane x 12 Fulmar x 11 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed B5N2 Kate: 5 destroyed, 7 damaged Allied aircraft losses Sea Hurricane: 2 destroyed Fulmar: 1 destroyed Allied Ships CV Formidable CV Indomitable, Torpedo hits 2, on fire Aircraft Attacking: 3 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet 4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet 2 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet 3 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on TF at 18,64 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 11 B5N2 Kate x 8 Allied aircraft Sea Hurricane x 6 Fulmar x 10 Japanese aircraft losses B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged Allied aircraft losses Sea Hurricane: 1 destroyed Fulmar: 2 destroyed Allied Ships CV Formidable CV Indomitable, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage Aircraft Attacking: 2 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet 3 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on TF at 21,66 Allied aircraft Fulmar x 12 Albacore x 9 Allied aircraft losses Albacore: 4 damaged Japanese Ships CVL Zuiho, on fire, heavy damage CVL Ryujo, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage Aircraft Attacking: 1 x Albacore launching torpedoes at 200 feet 4 x Albacore launching torpedoes at 200 feet 4 x Albacore launching torpedoes at 200 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Air attack on TF at 18,64 Japanese aircraft G4M1 Betty x 15 Allied aircraft Fulmar x 5 Japanese aircraft losses G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed, 9 damaged Allied Ships CV Indomitable, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage Aircraft Attacking: 2 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet 4 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet 4 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet 4 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unfortunately neither Japanese CVL survived the day ...On the plus side I now know where the British CV's are and I know one of them has four fish in her side... quote: For the third time in as many engagements the British Fleet Air arm once again beat the Japanese Carriers to the punch. However this time instead of facing just a couple of CVL's or CVE's the British faced a task force containing at least one Japanese CV... The newly launched Junyo. The Japanese cap performed admirably, even still the tough british bombers stilled forced their way through and were able to inflict serious damage... 04/17/42 Day Air attack on TF at 19,34 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 38 Allied aircraft Fulmar x 19 Albacore x 18 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed Allied aircraft losses Fulmar: 13 destroyed Albacore: 6 destroyed, 6 damaged Japanese Ships CV Junyo CVE Unyo, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage CVL Shoho, Torpedo hits 1 04/17/42 Day Air attack on TF at 19,34 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 35 Allied aircraft Fulmar x 5 Swordfish x 8 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses Fulmar: 2 destroyed Swordfish: 6 destroyed Japanese Ships CVE Unyo, on fire, heavy damage Even still while the British were inflicting damage on the Japanese fleet, Japanese strike aircraft were enroute to the British Fleet. The day would not end well for the British... 04/17/42 Day Air attack on TF at 17,32 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 18 D3A2 Val x 8 B5N2 Kate x 21 Allied aircraft Fulmar x 7 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed D3A2 Val: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed, 17 damaged Allied aircraft losses Fulmar: 1 destroyed Allied Ships CVL Hermes, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CL Capetown, Bomb hits 2, on fire CV Formidable, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage 04/17/42 Day Air attack on TF at 17,32 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 6 B5N2 Kate x 24 Allied aircraft Fulmar x 3 Japanese aircraft losses B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed, 14 damaged Allied Ships CV Formidable, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage CA Cornwall, Torpedo hits 1, on fire CVL Hermes, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage 04/17/42 Day Air attack on TF at 17,32 Japanese aircraft D3A2 Val x 7 Allied aircraft Fulmar x 3 Japanese aircraft losses D3A2 Val: 7 damaged Allied Ships CV Formidable, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage 04/17/42 Day Air attack on TF at 17,32 Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 19 D3A2 Val x 6 B5N2 Kate x 10 Japanese aircraft losses B5N2 Kate: 6 damaged Allied Ships CVL Hermes, on fire, heavy damage CV Formidable, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage By the end of the day the Formidable and Hermes both succumbed to the terrible damage inflicted upon them. Although making a valiant effort to salvage the Unyo she to succumbed the two torpedo hits. Most importantly most of the pilots from the CVE were able to fly their aircraft to other carriers and the Japanese base at Sabang. So far in three exchanges with British Carriers the Japanese have lost two CVL's and a CVE. The British have lost two CV's and a CVL. _____________________________

herwin -> RE: Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/15/2007 5:48:45 PM)
Four torps was all she wrote for any WWII carrier that actually was operational. The Midway class could take five or four on one side.

spence -> RE: Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/15/2007 7:26:18 PM)
Four torpedos is probably 4 more than were ever launched by all the B5Ns of all of those CVLs/CVEs (involved in those actions above) combined during the course of all of WW2.

ChezDaJez -> RE: Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/15/2007 7:58:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zhengxuacmilan We all know that it is quite hard for allied CVs to fight with Japanese CVs before May 1942, when the zeros still have the bonus. Now I am quite curious about that, if it is possible, is it wise to use only one allied CV to fight with a japanese CVL? What about the result? The question for me would not be could it be done and survive, it would be more like "Is the return worth it?" The loss of a JAP CVL is not going to have much impact on the Japanese player but the loss of, or severe damage to, an allied CV early makes things much easier for the Japanese player. I would think it would have to be a pretty important target to risk an allied CV early in the game. If your CV sinks or is heavily damaged, that's one less the Jap player has to worry about. Keeping your CVs around will cause the Japanese player to wonder where they are and to provide additional air cover for any offensive moves he plans. Hit and run strikes where he is vulnerable will cause the Japanese player to spread his forces out to cover soft spots. Striking a Japanese fleet carrier might be worth the risk but not a CVL. To risk it without a decent return just because you know it will be replaced in 18 months is just wrong IMHO. Chez

KPAX -> RE: Have anyone tested for this case of air combat? (6/20/2007 3:56:11 AM)
Typically, in early 1942, KB vs even US CVs will ring the death toll for the US CVs. I think that the XP difference in the pilots is enough to make a mess out of the US CVs.

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