DD's and fuel (Full Version)

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Rick Bradley -> DD's and fuel (6/17/2007 1:07:46 AM)

I ran a task group around for about 6 days at flank speed with no problem. Even a Fletcher class DD would probably be sucking seawater sometime on the second day. I think that somehow refueling has to me modeled to limit this.
Is the AI able to do this?

BB's and CV's often refueled smaller ships but does anyone know if CA's were capable of refueling DD's?



mariovalleemtl -> RE: DD's and fuel (6/17/2007 1:33:33 AM)

Good question [&:]



Al Boone -> RE: DD's and fuel (6/17/2007 5:17:22 AM)

The CAW 1992 manual has 2 paragraphs on refueling at sea and also says "The optimum cruising speed in a combat area is 20 knots. This is too fast for submarines to get a decent shot, but reasonably easy on fuel." I don't know whether this still applies to the new game, but it is better insight than the "black hole" of info for CAW 2007. The CAW 2007 game with CAW 1992 quality of manuals would be an awesome game. Of course the new CAW game sales pitch is that we can tell it all in 25 pages........ of course you can if you leave all the game data explanations out! Of course UV with proper development and enrichment could have been a "Hall of Fame" game, but we know where that went when WITP took front stage.



jazman -> RE: DD's and fuel (6/17/2007 6:19:10 AM)

In Eastern Solomons, I notice that the Wasp starts with little fuel, enough for five days' cruising at 20 knots. Can you say Sub Target? And TG 61, with three fleet tankers, is nearby. There seems to be no way to refuel.



Gregor_SSG -> RE: DD's and fuel (6/18/2007 3:03:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jazman

In Eastern Solomons, I notice that the Wasp starts with little fuel, enough for five days' cruising at 20 knots. Can you say Sub Target? And TG 61, with three fleet tankers, is nearby. There seems to be no way to refuel.


To refuel, just be in the same hex as a TG with a refuel mission, so in Eastern Solomons, the Wasp can easily refuel from TG 61.

Gregor



blastpop -> RE: DD's and fuel (6/18/2007 4:20:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

quote:

ORIGINAL: jazman

In Eastern Solomons, I notice that the Wasp starts with little fuel, enough for five days' cruising at 20 knots. Can you say Sub Target? And TG 61, with three fleet tankers, is nearby. There seems to be no way to refuel.


To refuel, just be in the same hex as a TG with a refuel mission, so in Eastern Solomons, the Wasp can easily refuel from TG 61.

Gregor


My question without no disrespect intented: Where is this important information in the manual?



Gregor_SSG -> RE: DD's and fuel (6/18/2007 4:32:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blastpop

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

quote:

ORIGINAL: jazman

In Eastern Solomons, I notice that the Wasp starts with little fuel, enough for five days' cruising at 20 knots. Can you say Sub Target? And TG 61, with three fleet tankers, is nearby. There seems to be no way to refuel.


To refuel, just be in the same hex as a TG with a refuel mission, so in Eastern Solomons, the Wasp can easily refuel from TG 61.

Gregor


My question without no disrespect intented: Where is this important information in the manual?


You're right, it's not there. I'm currently working on an FAQ to address this any other questions that have been asked in the forums.

Gregor



Rick Bradley -> RE: DD's and fuel (6/18/2007 4:38:54 AM)

Gregor, thanks for the reply but the DD's should be able to refuel from a CV but there really is no need to because they have the same endurance as the CV. It would be nice if the need to refuel the smaller ships had an bearing on how fast one was able to tear about.

I would ask again if the AI is able to maintain the high speeds also without regards to DD's fuel consumption? Maybe some random damage for substained high speed would help.

By the way I do like the game very much.

Thanks



Gregor_SSG -> RE: DD's and fuel (6/18/2007 4:59:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick Bradley

Gregor, thanks for the reply but the DD's should be able to refuel from a CV but there really is no need to because they have the same endurance as the CV. It would be nice if the need to refuel the smaller ships had an bearing on how fast one was able to tear about.

I would ask again if the AI is able to maintain the high speeds also without regards to DD's fuel consumption? Maybe some random damage for substained high speed would help.

By the way I do like the game very much.

Thanks


The Destroyers are assumed to be able to refuel from the larger ships in the formation, so no side is being advantaged or disadvantaged here.

Gregor



Rick Bradley -> RE: DD's and fuel (6/18/2007 5:55:59 AM)

I don't want to beat this to death but certainally they can't refuel at 33 knots. I understand to do it totally right you would have to keep track of fuel per ship so you would know if you could do a high speed dash without having to slow to fuel at some time but it would be nice to see something put in that would simulate keeping your smaller vessels of a task force topped off. Refueling at sea was a tricky and dangerous business and could have tremendous bearing on tactical decisions. Anyway I rest.

Thanks



Panther Bait -> RE: DD's and fuel (6/18/2007 9:05:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick Bradley

I ran a task group around for about 6 days at flank speed with no problem. Even a Fletcher class DD would probably be sucking seawater sometime on the second day. I think that somehow refueling has to me modeled to limit this.
Is the AI able to do this?

BB's and CV's often refueled smaller ships but does anyone know if CA's were capable of refueling DD's?


During the way, CAs and even CLs were capable of refueling DDs in a pinch. I am not sure what the relative speed/danger is between fueling from another member of the TF and from an AO.



Gregor_SSG -> RE: DD's and fuel (6/19/2007 3:48:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick Bradley

I don't want to beat this to death but certainally they can't refuel at 33 knots. I understand to do it totally right you would have to keep track of fuel per ship so you would know if you could do a high speed dash without having to slow to fuel at some time but it would be nice to see something put in that would simulate keeping your smaller vessels of a task force topped off. Refueling at sea was a tricky and dangerous business and could have tremendous bearing on tactical decisions. Anyway I rest.

Thanks


Yes, we could make the player keep track of individual ship's fuel status, then program a whole new section of the game to allow for at sea refueling along with new interface, help text, tutorials and an extra section in the manual.

Of course, at the end of all that, we would end up with same result as we do now, since the player will find time, at night if nothing else, to keep his smaller ships fueled, without having a huge effect on the higher level gameplay.

So we have decided to save both you and us a whole lot of work and just skip to the correct answer without having to show all our working. Where fuel was criticall, as with the Wasp at Eastern Solomons, then it is modelled for the TG as a whole and the player does indeed have some tough decisions to make.

This is the sort of philosphical decision we have made throughout the game, and its the philosophy that makes the game fast, exciting and fun to play.

Of course, it would have been better if I'd put an explanation of the refueling mission in the manual, so I apologise for that.

Gregor



jazman -> RE: DD's and fuel (6/19/2007 6:55:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

Of course, it would have been better if I'd put an explanation of the refueling mission in the manual, so I apologise for that.

Gregor


Yes. After the explanation here I was able to refuel the Wasp. But there is no "refuel" mission, it's escort TG, and once they're in the same spot, it starts happening.



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