Tutorial (Full Version)

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sbelanoff -> Tutorial (6/18/2007 9:34:08 PM)

I am extremely disappointed in the handling of the tutorial in Battlefront. One of the things which distinguished SSG/Matrix from other game software developers and publishers (e.g. EA, Ubi, etc.) was that they always delivered finished, fully tested products with complete, detailed manuals including tutorials. Obviously this is not the case with Battlefront. Not only is a complete tutorial not yet available but what is availble is a bit slap-dash compared to the tutorials included in the Decisive Battles series. It is very disheartening to see SSG/Matrix adopting the same user-be-damned attitude as has the rest of the gaming software industry.

sbb



RayWolfe -> RE: Tutorial (6/19/2007 10:40:46 AM)

Can't help but agree with you. For such a complex game the lack of a completed tutorial and a pretty poor manual is not up to SSG's normal exemplary standards.
Ray



Gen Alexandra -> RE: Tutorial (6/19/2007 1:05:52 PM)

I cannot agree with your post.

BF comes with a more than adequete Manual, to highlight the basics overview of the game, enough to get anyone started.

Although a tutorial did not come with the purchase, a senario by JSS and even an Tutorial AAR on this forum are availble as a means to support the Manual.

Like every game that is released DB included, a Tutorial/Manual will not give you 100% of the information, as you go through senarios and battles you learn along the way, war-games have always been like that on the computer.

IMO SSG have NOT got a be-dammed attitude to this release, most of the SSG staff are always around on this forum or the SSG one to answer any questions or problems, you also have a wealth of SSG Gamer expierence to call apoun if SSG is not around.

Where the release lets itself down is Value for Money against other titles and series.

If you want to play a flexible highly un-predictable War-Game then I suggest you purchase BF as I for one cannot do without it right now.



RayWolfe -> RE: Tutorial (6/19/2007 3:04:46 PM)

I suggest you are shooting at a straw man. No one here said it was not a wonderful game. No one here said SSG have a be dammed attitude.
The tutorial to which you refer is excellent .... but it's stopped half way through! And if you think the manual is "more than adequate" let me suggest you haven't seen many manuals; tried COTA's manual for example; seen SSG's CAW manual for another.
Clearly you are a very clever chap and have the brain, time and perseverance to divine the workings of Battlefront, one of the deepest and most complex war game out there. Unfortunately, I've only been playing computer war games since 1985 so I've a long way to go to reach your dizzy heights of skill and need a little more help.
Sorry to disagree with you.
Ray
Incedetally, the SSG manuals for the original Battlefront, which I still have, were much more comprehensive.



pmiranda -> RE: Tutorial (6/19/2007 3:31:28 PM)

I must say I agree. I am also quite disappointed by the manual. Even after reading it twice, I started my 1st game the other day (Saipan) and was pretty much lost (and I'm far from being a wargames newbie either).
For instance, it's nowhere mentioned how direct fire works. This is quite intriguing, considering it's one of the main differences with previous games (Korsun Pocket et al).
This IS a complex wargame. I'm sure it's a gem just like the others, but the interface hasn't improved (I'm sorry to say I still find it pretty unintuitive), which makes the manual even more important. A good tutorial would obviously also have been quite handy (the tutorial found on this forum is a worthy effort, but it can't replace an in-game tutorial, or at least a printed tutorial).

This is sadly the big problem with most PC wargames (I know it first hand from having recently participated in such a project). Maybe if the editors would spend some more resources for documentation, they would attract more gamers? This doesn't seem to be the mainstream opinion, though.



Gen Alexandra -> RE: Tutorial (6/19/2007 5:36:56 PM)

quote:

t is very disheartening to see SSG/Matrix adopting the same user-be-damned attitude as has the rest of the gaming software industry.


I quote above the reference to "BE_DAMMED _ ATTITUDE", of which my reply referred.

And as for your own reply, well is it worth answering ? seems to me that anyone that would dare disagree with your viewpoint, would KOP it!




sbelanoff -> RE: Tutorial (6/19/2007 5:56:49 PM)

All I want is a manual and tutorial with the same detail and documentation as was provided for Battles in Normandy through Battles in Italy. No more or less. Since it was provided in those games why not in this one? There has obviously been a change in documentation philosophy which is not in favor of the user.

sbb



Txema -> RE: Tutorial (6/19/2007 8:26:37 PM)

quote:

  All I want is a manual and tutorial with the same detail and documentation as was provided for Battles in Normandy through Battles in Italy. No more or less. Since it was provided in those games why not in this one? There has obviously been a change in documentation philosophy which is not in favor of the user.

sbb


I have to agree with sbelanoff, and that's why I have not bought "Battlefront" yet. I am sure there are other potential buyers that have followed the same way as me. Please, give us a good manual and tutorial for "Battlefront" and I am sure that a lot of potential players will buy it (me included !!!).

Txema



ibeam81 -> RE: Tutorial (6/19/2007 9:30:43 PM)

Does SSG or Matrix intend to release a tutorial document that consolidates the various tutorials that have been presented in this forum? That would go a long way to making Battlefront more accessible.



sbelanoff -> RE: Tutorial (6/19/2007 11:28:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ibeam81

Does SSG or Matrix intend to release a tutorial document that consolidates the various tutorials that have been presented in this forum? That would go a long way to making Battlefront more accessible.


The tutorials presented in this forum so far are no where near complete. Also, thay are not as comprehensive or detailed as were the Decisive Battles ones. What should have been done is the Manuals and Tutorials for Battles in Italy should have been used like a template for the Battlefront Manual and Tutorials. Appropriate changes would have to be made to cover differences in the games. I suspect that this is exactly what was done with the Korsun Pocket Manual and Tutorials to prepare the documentation for Battles in Normandy and then each succeeding game used the previous game's documentation with appropriate changes. Of course, when Korsun Pocket was released most gaming software companies had pride in their products and thought their reputation was something important. What the gaming companies don't seem to realize now is that the users can live without games but the companies can not live without users.

sbb



JSS -> RE: Tutorial (6/20/2007 2:05:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ibeam81

Does SSG or Matrix intend to release a tutorial document that consolidates the various tutorials that have been presented in this forum? That would go a long way to making Battlefront more accessible.


This would be ideal; can't speak for SSG or Matrix but I know SSG has some interest in doing such when the on line tutorials are complete. There will be three more segments (doubling what's up now). Have a scenario map project to complete this week and plan on doing the last three segments this weekend.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sbelanoff

The tutorials presented in this forum so far are no where near complete. Also, thay are not as comprehensive or detailed as were the Decisive Battles ones...


Agree, see above [:)] One thing to consider with the in game tutorial & manual. BF is truly a new game and not an evolution of DB. BiN & BII were relatively easy to document as they were a continuation/evolution of KP. BF guides literally had to be redone from scratch. I can't comment on whether a new manual is possible or not... perhaps time will tell[X(]



RayWolfe -> RE: Tutorial (6/20/2007 10:50:51 AM)

Thanks JSS. I look forward to seeing the complete works which will enable me to understand the finer workings of this game.
I presume you won't even need to look at this, General Alexandra? [;)]
Ray



JSS -> RE: Tutorial (6/20/2007 2:39:04 PM)

He probably doesn't, seems every mistake I make in our Crusader game results in a solid pounding[X(]



Gen Alexandra -> RE: Tutorial (6/21/2007 11:55:01 AM)

[&o][&o]I am not worthy of such praise JSS, since you whooped me in Churchill!

But I maintain (And will conceed - Ray) that for me the manual supplied is more than enough for me to get started and give me a broad overview of the game mechanics.

Believe me, there are still things I am still learning about and still trying to understand myself, but they are small things.

GA



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