Tips for making Hictoric maps

Tips for making Hictoric maps (Full Version)

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Drake666 -> Tips for making Hictoric maps (9/5/2000 3:09:00 AM)
Just a few tips so that people can make better historic maps. 1. Keep in mind that each hex is 50 meters wide. That makes the larges map 5 km wide by 12 km down. 2. Lay a hex grede over the map that you are using to make the map and then use the train tracks in the editor to lay down the same hex grede on the map in the editor. This way you can go hex by hex and get the map as close as possable. 3. Use more then one map in making your map and try and get some pictures of the area at the time so that you can get the map to look right. Thats all my tips for know. If anyone has anything to add to this go ahead.

Don -> (9/5/2000 4:31:00 AM)
Good tips, Drake! Your great web links for maps have helped me out alot too. Maybe you could put those up here for aspiring map makers. Here are my tips for map-making: 1. SAVE - early and often! 2. Plan - If you're not going by a historical map, make a sketch. It will save a lot of erasing (I know [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/frown.gif[/img]). 3. Use combinations - Try out effects, like using different terrain under RR tracks. Experiment! As long as you've been saving often you won't hurt anything. 4. Gain quick experience - If you can, talk to someone who has made maps. This will save numerous hours of trial and error. Wild Bill and Redleg were invaluble in giving me feedback on my maps and many scenario revisions. These tips are geared mostly to saving time. You are going to spend many precious hours on your map - spend them making, not revising. Don

Drake666 -> (9/5/2000 4:49:00 AM)
A few good map links This is the best one I found on the web. http://www.dean.usma.edu/history/dhistorymaps/Atlas%20Page.htm This one has a few good ones to. http://onwar.com/ More on this page. http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/historical/history_ww2.html#European

Wild Bill -> (9/5/2000 12:36:00 PM)
Great tips, Drake and Don. Good stuff here for potential map makers. I like this thread...Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

Don -> (9/5/2000 3:16:00 PM)
This is a great thread, and I've finally bookmarked those links from Drake! [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] And Wild Bill, any tips I give came from you originally! Don

Panther -> (9/6/2000 12:25:00 AM)
One thing to remember also is to some times simlify certain areas due to the scale of the map. Cities are a good example, since all you would have in many cases is just road upon road and nothing else. For cities I like to take only the major roads such as beltways and main arteries and make them in the right direction and scale. Also take any bridges and key localities such as a power plant or railroad yards and place them to scale. I like to then go and insert some major parks and other goverment/public buildings in the general area of where they should be located. Once these main points are done I then go and add all of the in between stuff making sure that the map is apealing to the eye and playable. Also anotate the map as you go some of those building so look alike. Do not forget to save, save and save often.

Tombstone -> (9/6/2000 6:36:00 AM)
Something I think about a lot if the shape of elevations. It's important to consider how you want war waged on your map. If you make hill edges really uneven it creates many opportunities to move a hex, fire, and retreat. If the hills are really even then you can only do that on the crest of the hill. The uneven hills look more natural (sometimes) but can make hills significantly more powerful defensively. This only holds true for human players however, since the AI would never stoop to such tactics. Also, the number of rough hexes you put in an area have a HUGE impact on infantry defensive positions. I guess my point is one should have a gameplay objective as well as an aesthetic one when making maps. Tomo

Supervisor -> (9/7/2000 10:48:00 PM)
Great Topic, One of my favorite subjects is mapmaking. What I do to start a map is to put down a sketch of the battlefield based on a real map if possible or pictures. Cities are much easier to plot out than open country because the terrain is already defined. Open country requires using the imagination to picture what terrain would be like. Most WW2 pictures of the Ukraine show endless flat or rolling treeless steppe. Now this would make a pretty boring map, so a few buildings and trees are needed to break the monotony. For my Kharkov map I used Pictures from my book library with aerial views and also pictures acquired from the web To save time I take my sketch and scan it into a bitmap that I open in Fred Chlanda's editor and convert to elevations, rough and water and then convert it into an SP map. I then open it in the game editor and finish the map up here. If there a lot of buildings I use Fred's editor to place them as it is a LOT faster.. To create depressions, I make swamp hexes and then cover them up with high grass or rough terrain. This leaves the ground at the same level as a swamp -2. For RR lines, which are usually on a enbankment, I place a line of 10 meter hills and then clear them, which leaves a 5 meter high enbankment that I cover with rough terrain to simulate the rock and gravel. Then I lay the track over this. For RR lines in a city I lay a dirt road and then place the track over it For densely packed city blocks, I use Freds editor to place multi hex buildings next to overlap each other. ------------------ Grenadier SPWAW Beta Team

Wild Bill -> (9/7/2000 11:12:00 PM)
Tips for mapmaking, not of interest to a number of folks, but of intense interest to quite a few. With the upcoming 4.0 you are going to have so many new terrain features that mapmaking will be more fun than ever. Here is one or two quickies from my repertoire. Make your maps realistic. Start taking note of the terrain around you, how streets run, rivers run, hills are formed and what is one them. Now with 4.0 you can place mud and marsh, in fact nearly all terrain features on higher elevations. With Polder (flooded fields) you can make terrain faithful to the Dutch countryside. With marsh and/or swamps you can make some most realistic marshy terrain so typical of Russia and Asia. Rice paddy complexes in abundance. And a tip. When laying rr track, use the "rock" feature to place an underbedding for your track. It gives a most realistic look to your track. Then put a Choo-choo on it for that "Lionel" look [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Mix hedge and stone walls when surrounding a farm. Leave some gaps occasionally or make them go around a clump of trees. Oops, I said one..I'm outa here. Great suggestions and ideas, guys. Love this thread! Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

Fabs -> (9/8/2000 2:38:00 AM)
I love mapmaking! I haver made two maps from reality, one of an area in normandy around the village of Cristot, the other one in Sicily, covering a crossing point across the Simeto river between Centuripe and Adrano. Both had challenges. I use a table to "isolate" the battleground on the map, indicating the dimensions of the rectangle that would include the dimensions. I convert from hexes to metres following this formula: For the X axis (along the top of the map), I multiply the number of Hexes by 37.5. This is because if the hex is 50m across between opposite angles of the hexagon, two columns will be 75m across(because of the hex grid effect). For the Y axis, I multiply by 43.3, this being the trigonometrically calculated distance between opposite sides of a hexagon with 25m sides (50m between opposite angles). This table translates all current map sizes: (First column: hexesxhexes, second column: cmxcm third column: mxm) 30x20 = 5.2 x 3.0 1,299 x 750 30x30 = 5.2 x 4.5 1,299 x 1,125 40x60 = 6.9 x 9.0 1,732 x 2,250 60x40 = 10.4x 6.0 2,598 x 1,500 50x50 = 8.7 x 7.5 2,165 x 1,875 80x40 = 13.9x 6.0 3,464 x 1,500 Small = 17.3x 6.0 4,330 x 1,500 80x60 = 13.9x 9.0 3,464 x 2,250 Medium = 17.3x 9.0 4,330 x 2,250 Large = 17.3x 12. 4,330 x 3,000 100x100 = 17.3x 15. 4,330 x 3,750 100x120 = 17.3x 18. 4,330 x 4,500 100x140 = 17.3x 21. 4,330 x 5,250 100x160 = 17.3x 24. 4,330 x 6,000 100x180 = 17.3x 27. 4,330 x 6,750 100x200 = 17.3x 30. 4,330 x 7,500 100x220 = 17.3x 33. 4,330 x 8,250 100x240 = 17.3x 36. 4,330 x 9,000 I cut a rectangle of the desired dimensions out of a larger piece of paper, then overlay it over the map to "window" the battle area. I take a 1:1 color copy of it, then I enlarge it by 50%. I draw a square grid over it where each rectangle represents 10x10 hexes, and start drawing in the main features by identifying their approximate location and reproducing them in the equivalent hex on the map. At a certain point, you need to start making some compromises between absolute realism and the capabilities of SPWAW's graphic system/scale. Fantasy maps are much more fun to make, but creating a map from a real location is very satisfying, after the hours of drudgery. ------------------ Fabs [This message has been edited by Fabs (edited September 07, 2000).]

Schrubbery -> (9/8/2000 2:49:00 AM)
There's something I have been wondering... hexes are 50 meters wide, but how much is the difference between height levels? Not 50 meters, I bet. I have never found this from anywhere. Or should I just use them relatively?

Wild Bill -> (9/8/2000 3:04:00 AM)
If I remember correctly 10 meters or about 30 feet. Each step up (example +1) is a meter or about a yard. WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

Fabs -> (9/8/2000 5:06:00 AM)
Yes, that is correct. Now wouldn't it be marvellous if at some time in the future we could have a few more of those added? [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] I know, I know, I keep banging on about this, but wouldn'it be just, well... perfect? [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] ------------------ Fabs

Tombstone -> (9/8/2000 5:18:00 AM)
I also try to put trees near water whenever it looks sparse and I dont have any ideas for spicing it up. Tomo

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