RE: Why did they fight? (Full Version)

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Erik Rutins -> RE: Why did they fight? (7/17/2007 2:26:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MengCiao
For example, in the game, the British Empire has a good chance of allying with the Confederacy, an event that, in Marx's view, was extremely unlikely. Marx seems to have been right about that as well as about the importance of the Emancipation Proclaimation.

The game in fact seems to suggest that the War wasn't caused by anything in particular, especially since the Confederacy can be given the option of emancipating its own slaves.


The game actually makes no such suggestion - those are included as "what if" options simply because players and historians wonder about them. If you've ever actually had the conditions right in the game for the CSA to emancipate and actually done it, you'll also find it comes with a very steep cost. The idea itself was tossed around as things went downhill for them, though I agree that it's just a "what if" rather than something that really would have had much chance of happening historically. Similary, the game offers an option to turn off any chance of the European powers intervening and even by default it's pretty easy for the Union to keep them out of the war with sustained diplomacy.

quote:

I think the game exaggerates the rationality or prudence of the Confederate scheme, but as so often in games that simulate unequal conflicts, the losing side has to be given better grounds for hope than it actually had, otherwise it would be a pointless game since I doubt many players would want to fight for the South in hopes of winning by surrendering even a few days later than happened historically.


Sure, but it's really just an often requested "what if".

Regards,

- Erik




SittingDuck -> RE: Why did they fight? (7/17/2007 3:09:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dude
The problem with discussing the root causes of the Civil War is that if you ask twelve people that question you’ll get twelve different answers. A lot of people like to try and sum it up to one key point for one side or the other. But that’s just not possible.


It's a great point, dude. I was going to chime the same earlier. However, I recognize that fact floats over many guys heads, who'd rather enjoy the round and round for awhile, never making any progress one way or another. Guess it gives them something to do - *sigh* And nothing ever changes, do it?

The great thing about seeing 1776 in play format, especially as a kid, was the 3D, larger-than-life experiece. And you know a kid just sucks things up differently than an adult. I got the vinyl soundtrack to it afterwards and used to relive the memories of it. It was pretty stirring. Unfortunately, I doubt that play will ever come back around again.




Mr. Yuck -> RE: Why did they fight? (7/17/2007 6:33:33 PM)

This is a bit OT but IFC (I think that stands for Int'l Film Channel) ran a fake documentary last night called CSA. It posited that the CSA won at Gettysburg and pressed on into the North, eventually obtaining European intervention and occupying the whole country. This was followed by reconstruction for the North, empire building in the southern hemisphere, war with Spain, war with Japan, and a cold war with a Canada that had absorbed much of our "dissident" population.

It was well thought out and realistically imagined and found myself thinking about what we would be discussing on this thread had things happened that way.

Anyone see it? If IFC doesn't run it again I'd recommend searching it out.




Mundy -> RE: Why did they fight? (7/19/2007 4:16:07 PM)

Before this point in history, there were rumblings of New England Secceeding from the US. I wonder if a war would have been fought over it then.

M-




AHFlattop -> RE: Why did they fight? (7/27/2007 7:25:42 AM)

I would recommend Shelby Foote's 3 volume as a starting point.  Certainly 'states rights' played a big role.  In 1860, a person from St Petersburg conisidered himself a Virginian first.  Before the civil war, people described America as "These" United States.  Afterwards, it was called "The" United States.




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