AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (Full Version)

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Vic -> AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 1:26:10 PM)

I was not able to push the german troops away from moscow....


[image]local://upfiles/12041/8AFF97211CAC4BC7870475418DE26D93.jpg[/image]



Vic -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 1:28:10 PM)

In the south the Rostov offensive lost steam due to the stiffening of the german lines.

Yes comrades.. it seems that next turn may well be the last. I dont think my Rostov offensive will be able to recapture Stalingrad before Moscow falls.

[image]local://upfiles/12041/C579782834E84FA18898D833D0E7E72D.jpg[/image]



tormy -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 2:13:13 PM)

So the AI managed to beat you? It was AI+ or AI++ am I right?



Vic -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 3:34:46 PM)

I am playing tweber as you can see in all the earlier posts since he posts his turns too.



tweber -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 4:30:06 PM)

German turn 18, May, 1942

I was able to capture my final objective, Moscow. Vic has 1 remaining turn to liberate a victory location. But, given the balance of forces, this is unlikely.

Here is the picture near Moscow.

[image]local://upfiles/25598/2A9C88AD669F48AD98D83DCE412820B8.jpg[/image]



tweber -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 4:53:33 PM)

Here is the final tally of kills (Soviet losses) and losses (German losses).

Note that different units have different costs. So I have adjusted for cost (of a rifle unit) and combined like units below to give a sense of the campaign:

Infantry (all types) - Soviet losses: 12,900; German losses: 4,700; Ratio: 2.7
Vehicles (all types) - Soviet losses: 5000; German losses: 3,900; Ratio: 1.3
Guns (all types) - Soviet losses: 2,900; German losses: 650; Ratio: 4.5
Planes (all types) - Soviet losses: 2,800; German losses: 760; Ratio: 3.6

Overall combat losses (normalized for cost)

Soviets: 23,600
Germans: 10,000

Ratio: 2.3

My ending force structure was (normalized to cost of rifle units - 1 light tank = 20 rifle units)

Infantry: 3,300
Vehicles: 2,400
Guns: 1,400
Planes: 1,100
Overall: 8,200

I was able to win by maintaining a high kill to loss ratio and by quickly capturing production centers. If I was slower in getting my troops forward during the summer, my ratio would have been lower, Soviet prodution would have been higher, and the overall ratio of forces would have been significantly against me. Over 2/3 rds of my losses were during the Soviet winter offensive and my Spring offensive. If the Soviets get throught the first summer in decent shape, they can hold in 42 and win in 43 and 44.



tormy -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 4:59:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

I am playing tweber as you can see in all the earlier posts since he posts his turns too.



Oh.....sorry my bad. [sm=innocent0009.gif]



tweber -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 5:05:50 PM)

Here is the final screenshot. Vic is a great player and I enjoyed the game.



[image]local://upfiles/25598/792242DF19B94F63810518F1CC2C1470.jpg[/image]



Vic -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 5:25:00 PM)

Evaluation of my defense of the USSR

In retrospect i made some really poor decisions. My main two mistakes where:

(1) Sending all my new production directly to the frontline. I should have given my reinforcements 2 or 3 rounds of training and entrenchment. Not only did i waste my troops but it also increased the experience of the germans a lot. Not being able to keep a defensible line quickly led to a feedback loop where i kept pooring in inadequate reinforcements piecemeal into the german meatgrinder.

(2) I went to quickly to producing counter attack weaponry like the expensive Medium Tanks II. I should have focussed on infantry, fighter defense and at defense untill after the german summer offensive. If i would have used those defensive troops to man well prepared defensive lines i should have been able to stop the germans well before they got anywhere near moscow, leningrad and stalingrad.

(3) I commited my strongest units, the Medium Tanks II piecemeal too. I should have focussed them all on one piece of the frontline.

But i must say Tom played very aggressive and exploited my mistakes skillfully!

Kind regards,
Vic




Arditi -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 5:59:33 PM)

  Good game gentlemen!  Like watching a movie!  Switch sides?
...or how about another scenario to see the strength of naval maneuvers along with ground combat?
       Ciao, Arditi[:)]



jwarrenw13 -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 6:33:20 PM)

Maybe tweber was using performance-enhancing drugs.  You should demand an independent drug test.



Ola Berli -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 8:36:05 PM)

Gents,

a fantastic AAR! Thanks to both gentlemen.

I look very much forward to this game.



seille -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 10:21:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Evaluation of my defense of the USSR

In retrospect i made some really poor decisions. My main two mistakes where:

(1) Sending all my new production directly to the frontline. I should have given my reinforcements 2 or 3 rounds of training and entrenchment. Not only did i waste my troops but it also increased the experience of the germans a lot. Not being able to keep a defensible line quickly led to a feedback loop where i kept pooring in inadequate reinforcements piecemeal into the german meatgrinder.

(2) I went to quickly to producing counter attack weaponry like the expensive Medium Tanks II. I should have focussed on infantry, fighter defense and at defense untill after the german summer offensive. If i would have used those defensive troops to man well prepared defensive lines i should have been able to stop the germans well before they got anywhere near moscow, leningrad and stalingrad.

(3) I commited my strongest units, the Medium Tanks II piecemeal too. I should have focussed them all on one piece of the frontline.

But i must say Tom played very aggressive and exploited my mistakes skillfully!

Kind regards,
Vic




Well analyzed Vic. I think this is 100% true.
You had a great routing of production, but you sent them too early into fire.
From a other game i learned how important the experience of the troops is.
So a 20 xp unit well entrenched with good staff support is a much better help than the very green troops.

With fighter defense i can also agree, but i think you did not make any mistakes here.
You had stronger units in the center and the south. It was bad luck for you that Tom got the 100PP
to upgrade his fighters. But one mistake you did definitely and this was not to vacuate the planes from
Leningrad. They could have served well in Moscow area.

@Tom

Thanks for the wonderful losses statistic. Exactly the stuff i missed here [:)]

Many thanks to you guyīs for that great AAR. Iīll miss it to read very much.
I strongly suggest a rematch with Vic as attacker !!! Common guys !



Whytfyjrd -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (7/14/2007 11:16:24 PM)

Super AAR!

I especially appreciated your comments and analyses of certain turns, as well as the final comments in this thread: they really illustrated how this game will play ... and the differences from and improvements over People's Tactics.

I'm now even more eager to see this on my 'Puter. Very effective marketing !   :::big grin:::



jjdenver -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (11/26/2007 9:27:14 PM)

Hey I was looking at this scenario and have a few quick questions that I am hoping someone can answer.

1) I'm playing it vs the AI as Germany and am unable to get my battleships to bombard anyone. I park them in the water hex next to Riga and then click on a Russian unit next to the battleships. I then click the artillery bombard button and then try to select the battleship but the green check mark button is not able to be clicked - it's shaded. How do you use battleships to bombard in this scenario?
2) Any tips for how the Russians can blow bridges early on? There don't seem to be any engineers outside of the few in HQ units. Regular troops don't seem to be able to blow bridges in this scenario. If on turn 1 as Russia you detach the engineers into a separate unit to blow bridges then they won't be able to take any action on that first turn since they are getting transferred (i.e. no bridges blown). When I play the AI I see a lot of blown bridges by the Soviets but I'm not sure how to best accomplish this. Do you run around w/ the HQ's blowing bridges (for example the one west of Odessa) on turn 1 then detach the engineers at end of the turn to continue their destruction work on turn 2? Maybe this is obvious to veterans but I'm not sure how to go about it.
3) To defend against German panzers is it best for Russia to invest in AT guns, bazookas, or medium tanks in 1941? Which should be built as a priority?
4) To defend vs the Luftwaffe should Russia invest in fighters or flak? Which is the priority in 1941?

Thanks for any thoughts.

JJ



Barthheart -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (11/26/2007 9:40:38 PM)

Some answers:

1) Don't pick the artillery bombard button use the shore bombard button a few buttons to the right, next to the naval battle button.

2) Like you said, use the HQ to start then transfer to separate units.

3) I'd use med. tanks and at-guns. Think real war T-34's an 57mm at-guns.... Germans hated and feared these...

4) Fighters have better intercept range but cost more... so do both... just let them train up before putting them in the line of fire.

Now all this advice comes with a note of caution.... JAMIAM (German) is clobbering me (Russia) in our game so.....[:'(]



jjdenver -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (11/26/2007 11:05:23 PM)

Hey Barth - thanks for the reply. I find blowing bridges to be difficult in practice on turn 1. For example the Odessa HQ needs to move 1 hex to blow the bridge NW of the city. However if any of the Odessa Front units get cut off then the Odessa HQ is not able to distribute their supply and so is left with "in stock" supply points. The Odessa HQ has 40 carry capacity and 40 unit weight with no supplies. However with for example 553 in stock supply points the carry weight of the HQ jumps from 40 to 95 - thus leaving it with an "immobile" unit movement type and a movement allowance of one. So if it moves one hex NW to be next to the bridge it needs to blow then it has exhausted its action points and can't blow the bridge. Is this a bug or is there any other option available to the Russian commander to get the Odessa bridge (for example) blown on turn 1?

Thanks



JAMiAM -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (11/26/2007 11:31:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

Hey Barth - thanks for the reply. I find blowing bridges to be difficult in practice on turn 1. For example the Odessa HQ needs to move 1 hex to blow the bridge NW of the city. However if any of the Odessa Front units get cut off then the Odessa HQ is not able to distribute their supply and so is left with "in stock" supply points. The Odessa HQ has 40 carry capacity and 40 unit weight with no supplies. However with for example 553 in stock supply points the carry weight of the HQ jumps from 40 to 95 - thus leaving it with an "immobile" unit movement type and a movement allowance of one. So if it moves one hex NW to be next to the bridge it needs to blow then it has exhausted its action points and can't blow the bridge. Is this a bug or is there any other option available to the Russian commander to get the Odessa bridge (for example) blown on turn 1?

Thanks

Create a new unit, transfer to it, the 10x Staff and the Flak unit. Then, since you are in wheeled mode, move the one hex, blow bridge, and move back, for 10+50+10 MP's. Finally, re-transfer the Staff and Flak back into unit.

Alternately, you can spend your PP's on researching Rifle/SMG II, then spend out your HQ's supplies upgrading its subformations.

Or, mix and match the two, spending some, and dropping off less.



seille -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (11/27/2007 12:45:09 AM)

Hehe, moving, blowing and moving back in turn 1 of the russians ?
You can be really happy when your engineers come to the bridges [:D]

Ok, want to blow bridges ? Then you have to prepare this in turn 1.

Save as many of your front engineers as possible. They are often in front HQīs.
Let new engineers (not more than 15 per bridge) arrive in Baltic HQ (Riga) and Kiev HQ.
There are very important bridges. In the turn they arrived you try to blow the bridge direct out of the HQ.
After that you create engineer units in the same hex. You can use them in the next turn to blow up neighbour
bridges. Upper Dnjepr you can let arrive some engineers in Charkov HQ, but i think there are already some engineers.
And you have lotīs of engineers in Stavka available. Here you have to decide if your use them for fortifications
or for blowing bridges or for both.
In turn 2 you start to blow up the bridges, but make sure all your forces moved over before.
Itīs often a question of luck, but itīs important for the russian defenders
since it makes attacks much harder and delays the germans a lot.

When you plan the upgrades my first choice (russians or germans doesnīt matter) would always be rifle II.
As russian player you have to save tons of PPīs for new units.


Defense against German tanks ? Choose the right terrain for your defense ! Build fortifications !
Fight behind rivers and in forests ! I use bazookas as AT weapon here. Attack them if there is a chance !!
No AT guns (need trucks for better movement, not flexible enough) and no Med tanks (too expensive
and a too good target for german Luftwaffe). Read the AAR and youīll see Vic said the Med tanks has
been a bad investment. AT guns you could use for a very static defense line and if you think you wonīt do a counterattack.
In winter 1941/42 these AT guns will prevent you from hard attacks since they slow down your forces.
But in bad terrain with masses of infantry they could do a good job. But I tend to use most of my troops for attacks in winter.
Thatīs why i prefer the bazooka or simply higher infantry number (SMG II and Rifle II)

Defense against planes ? If you play russia you can go for both, flak and fighters.
But there are several disadvantages. Most important is that the flak makes the units slow if there are no trucks.
Itīs more a static defense. At key points and in the right terrain it can be useful.
Good protection is not to put too many tanks in one unit. Split them ! When i see as german attacker
a russian tank unit with 6 tanks iīll attack until at least 4 of them are dead and the others in bad shape [;)] 
When you use flak as protection in your more static defense lines itīs the best to spread them ro the german
canīt fly concentrated attacks to destroy them.



Barthheart -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (11/27/2007 1:56:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: seille

Hehe, moving, blowing and moving back in turn 1 of the russians ?
You can be really happy when your engineers come to the bridges [:D]

Ok, want to blow bridges ? Then you have to prepare this in turn 1.

Save as many of your front engineers as possible. They are often in front HQīs.
Let new engineers (not more than 15 per bridge) arrive in Baltic HQ (Riga) and Kiev HQ.
There are very important bridges. In the turn they arrived you try to blow the bridge direct out of the HQ.
After that you create engineer units in the same hex. You can use them in the next turn to blow up neighbour
bridges. Upper Dnjepr you can let arrive some engineers in Charkov HQ, but i think there are already some engineers.
And you have lotīs of engineers in Stavka available. Here you have to decide if your use them for fortifications
or for blowing bridges or for both.
In turn 2 you start to blow up the bridges, but make sure all your forces moved over before.
Itīs often a question of luck, but itīs important for the russian defenders
since it makes attacks much harder and delays the germans a lot.

When you plan the upgrades my first choice (russians or germans doesnīt matter) would always be rifle II.
As russian player you have to save tons of PPīs for new units.


Defense against German tanks ? Choose the right terrain for your defense ! Build fortifications !
Fight behind rivers and in forests ! I use bazookas as AT weapon here. Attack them if there is a chance !!
No AT guns (need trucks for better movement, not flexible enough) and no Med tanks (too expensive
and a too good target for german Luftwaffe). Read the AAR and youīll see Vic said the Med tanks has
been a bad investment. AT guns you could use for a very static defense line and if you think you wonīt do a counterattack.
In winter 1941/42 these AT guns will prevent you from hard attacks since they slow down your forces.
But in bad terrain with masses of infantry they could do a good job. But I tend to use most of my troops for attacks in winter.
Thatīs why i prefer the bazooka or simply higher infantry number (SMG II and Rifle II)

Defense against planes ? If you play russia you can go for both, flak and fighters.
But there are several disadvantages. Most important is that the flak makes the units slow if there are no trucks.
Itīs more a static defense. At key points and in the right terrain it can be useful.
Good protection is not to put too many tanks in one unit. Split them ! When i see as german attacker
a russian tank unit with 6 tanks iīll attack until at least 4 of them are dead and the others in bad shape [;)] 
When you use flak as protection in your more static defense lines itīs the best to spread them ro the german
canīt fly concentrated attacks to destroy them.


Err.... yeah... what he said![:D]




PDiFolco -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (11/27/2007 11:27:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

Hey Barth - thanks for the reply. I find blowing bridges to be difficult in practice on turn 1. For example the Odessa HQ needs to move 1 hex to blow the bridge NW of the city. However if any of the Odessa Front units get cut off then the Odessa HQ is not able to distribute their supply and so is left with "in stock" supply points. The Odessa HQ has 40 carry capacity and 40 unit weight with no supplies. However with for example 553 in stock supply points the carry weight of the HQ jumps from 40 to 95 - thus leaving it with an "immobile" unit movement type and a movement allowance of one. So if it moves one hex NW to be next to the bridge it needs to blow then it has exhausted its action points and can't blow the bridge. Is this a bug or is there any other option available to the Russian commander to get the Odessa bridge (for example) blown on turn 1?

Thanks



You can throw away supplies to make it mobile - not that it's usually a good idea but here it could be useful...



jjdenver -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (11/27/2007 4:57:25 PM)

how do you throw away supplies?



PDiFolco -> RE: AAR: Defense of the USSR part 17 (11/27/2007 5:36:32 PM)

IIRC (don't have the game at hands), click on the HQ "stock" and a window opens to ask how much you want to dump



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