Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (Full Version)

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kevinkins -> Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/20/2007 6:45:18 PM)

Please



Phatguy -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/20/2007 7:33:09 PM)

where is this patch you speak of?

never mind , just found my glasses and the update



targul -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/20/2007 11:01:56 PM)

Started a game last night am presently in 42.

I am playing as Axis. Allied convoys are much larger then before. Allies AI in the Atlantic seems better and there builds to this point seem better.

Africa remains asleep. My Italians set there forever without anything happening from the Allies so I attacked Egypt. They had zero air support so I quickly took most of the territory. It is Jan 42 and I have Cairo at 1 so it should fall next turn. AI appears to not have been worked on in Africa so it is a theater for Axis players to ignore still.

Allied Tech seems to be doing very well. Air and navy seems to be there main gig which is correct. USA just joined so no comments on it yet.

Russian front fell apart on first assault. I attacked late Aug due to upgrades two months in a row. I am presently battling at Smolesk but Russians have very little force and even though it is winter they seem to still be falling apart. I will update this after winter to see if Russia recovers.

I have no air on the East front and no need for it. Russians seem to have built nothing but air. Seems like a bad move to me but only time will tell.

As Axis I placed my tech evenly in all five to start and then 3 in Infantry followed by 3 in air. Worked very well so far.

Infantry is level 7 Subs 1 Armor has one upgrade air is at 6.

France moved incorrectly upon invasion of Belgium. A single French tank advanced. It killed a infantry but was immediately eliminated due to a lack of support. France made no other advance they moved to protect Paris which simply did not work at all. It fell 2 turns after Belgium.

Forget Allies moved one motorized unit along French Coast December 41. Since all my air is located there due to England and my continuous air battles that was a very bad move. Bombed it with 3 air 2 fighters and 1 tac bomber followed by a Uboat so no motorized infantry.

Present lack of Amph requires telegraphing your attempted landing both ahistorical and almost always going to fail.

Anyway AI seems about the same but Atlantic and air actions seem much better but the lack of activity in the med and africa are destroying the poor allies.



SeaMonkey -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/21/2007 5:36:47 AM)

This is so amusing, deja' vu, really, ala SC.

Well I hope Johan is willing to put in a few years getting this right.

Its a slow process, what, its been 5 years for SC development since its initial release.

You guys hang in there and lets hope fpj is an extra-ordinary developer, could be sooner.

I'll be awaiting.



Happycat -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/21/2007 6:53:34 AM)

AI marginal improvement, but some nice additions for PBEM. Each player is now password protected, and when you open up your turn, enemy movement from previous turn is plotted on map with arrows. You can also see the air units that attacked you, even if they are in the "fogged" area of the map. This seems fair enough, because if you actually got to watch the turn play out, you would have seen the air units anyway.

Not a bad first patch.



Bigfish -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/21/2007 1:30:20 PM)

Hi,

did anyone who has installed the patch know if battleships going on to attack subs? I can't find anything in the changelog if this is fixed. I never heard about a major warship (battleships, heavy cruisers) from wwii which had have anti submarine weapons.

greets
Bigfish



Canuck_jp -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/21/2007 5:31:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Happycat

AI marginal improvement, but some nice additions for PBEM. Each player is now password protected, and when you open up your turn, enemy movement from previous turn is plotted on map with arrows. You can also see the air units that attacked you, even if they are in the "fogged" area of the map. This seems fair enough, because if you actually got to watch the turn play out, you would have seen the air units anyway.

Not a bad first patch.


Huh? So you still can't actually watch a replay? just see arrows where the enemy moved? That's not exactly what i was expecting.



Rocko911 -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/21/2007 6:11:18 PM)

I was hoping the sub issue was resolved. As it stands currently they really are ineffective against convoys.



targul -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/21/2007 7:29:09 PM)

May 8 1942 Battle for Moscow is about the start.  It should fall easily they have only green units on the line and very few of them.  Lenningrad will fall next turn it is red now.  Rostov is being Siege probably two turns left.  The Sevestepol is in danger of falling.  I still have never placed an axis air on the eastern front.  AI seems marginally worse then before.  They seem to get a few more units but nothing like what is necessary.  Russian winter just kills the Russians not too bad on the Axis though.

Port Said should fall next turn.  That will end the battle for Africa.  Well you cant call it a battle since the Allies didnt do anything there but watch me kill units.  Totally inactive front as was before.

Allies made a pathetic landing in France with one unsupported unit out of supply and going to die.  If this is the assualt the Axis have feared they can regain there composer it will be Dminute for the Allies instead of Dday.

Overall I rate this patch as poor so far I shall continue and see if there is improvement as I go on.



firepowerjohan -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/21/2007 7:57:07 PM)

Targul, did you beat the AI on toughest difficulty level yet or is that the level you are currently trying? [:)]



targul -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/21/2007 8:20:42 PM)

I havent won yet and no this is not toughest difficulty.  Is the toughest where the improvements where made?  Hope so because on the +1 they suck.



Stryder -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/22/2007 4:49:28 AM)

the toughest setting in the 39 scenario is a good challenge.. I think "suck" may be a bit harsh... there is no software product made today, from expensive multi-million dollar packages for businesses to $50 games that does not have bugs and need tweaks/adjustments after initial release.
I think the first patch is a great improvement and the game itself has only been out for a few weeks. Most games do not get patches this quickly.. i think if the gaming community gives good feedback and the designers stay committed we will have a truly amazing game...

I love the game already and keep getting into "trouble" with the family for playing it so much. if each patch keeps making the game better, I'll be happy.



Bigfish -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/22/2007 5:05:46 AM)

Hehe,

April 1943 - two us and one british tank corps shake hands with two russian tank corps at Berlin. There are still some german units at Lorraine, Frankfurt, Hamburg and Munic. Same time a few miles before perm (russian second capital) 5 russian tank corps smashing german air force - only one italian tank corps near by. ok the germans are still in russia but the next turn germany will surrender to uk and a british expedition corps just unloaded some miles away from rom.

I think there is no AI [:D] - Why do the germans fight through russia torwards Moscow and Perm when british and us troops invade france at Cherbourg? - Freeing Paris was simple. Leaving the center citys of germany do there own thing my troops heading as fast as possible stright towards Berlin.

----
A few months before:

The situation in russia was desperate - the germans right before Moscow beating my troops like a turkey shot. So i decided to invade france with only two tank corps and 2 infantry corps - but a strong air force and enough battleships, carriers and destroyers. I hoped the germans are calling back some tank corps for defending france and Berlin. Then the russians can reorganize and reinforce. But no(!) - The germans still heading to Perm after they capture Moscow. Lucky the russian winter slow them down - so it was possible to create a defending force at Perm.

After this it was only a race: Who is faster? The germans fighting at Perm or the Allies rushing for Berlin.

----

Now there are only a few italian units in russia and some well defendig troops at bulgaria. The fall of Rom is only a question of time. I think my troops will be at home for christmas 1943...

-------


Ok I played the Allies setting game balance to even, but with fog of war and oil consumption. Playing the german side the turotial (unpached version) without fog of war was much harder and ended with an german victory in summer 1945 just captured russia.

Greets
Bigfish





targul -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/22/2007 7:34:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jfarber

the toughest setting in the 39 scenario is a good challenge.. I think "suck" may be a bit harsh... there is no software product made today, from expensive multi-million dollar packages for businesses to $50 games that does not have bugs and need tweaks/adjustments after initial release.
I think the first patch is a great improvement and the game itself has only been out for a few weeks. Most games do not get patches this quickly.. i think if the gaming community gives good feedback and the designers stay committed we will have a truly amazing game...

I love the game already and keep getting into "trouble" with the family for playing it so much. if each patch keeps making the game better, I'll be happy.


Glad you like the game. But my remark that the patch sucks stands. We were told they were making a PBEM replay and they gave us crap.

As to the AI I am finding it better at the higher levels but I will withhold a good rating until I have played a few games. There remain no AI for the Med or Africa. The Allies just sit there until you kill them.

Game has potential but is far from where it should be compared to its competition.

If this patch is an indication of there ability to make this game a memorible one they failed badly. They need to either look at other games which I am sure Matrix can provide or ask the players what they think prior to releasing a patch because this one is far short of a success IMO.



firepowerjohan -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/22/2007 1:19:21 PM)

"We were told they were making a PBEM replay and they gave us crap."

We have as far as I know never promised we were making a replay feature, but promised we would improve feedback in PBEM games.

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3624



targul -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/22/2007 6:23:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: firepowerjohan

"We were told they were making a PBEM replay and they gave us crap."

We have as far as I know never promised we were making a replay feature, but promised we would improve feedback in PBEM games.

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3624



Well, what you provided gives me NO information. Everyother PBEM game gives a playback. Why cant you guys get that together? That is exactly what was requested on the boards. We didnt ask you for a bunch of squiggly lines on the map. We need to know what our oponent is doing during his turn.

How are we suppose to know which units where killed? How are we suppose to know how they were killed? How are we suppose to know who surrendered or who was attacked?

This is critical information every leader receives but I am left in the dark. All I recieve from my subordinate commanders is a map with squiggly lines? I can tell every sub commander is fired if he can not even tell me which units where destroyed and where in the last 3 weeks. If he doesnt know what countries are at war and who has surrendered.

In lieu of embedding reporters in this game you have removed all reporters about the war in order to keep it secret even from the players.



kevinkins -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/22/2007 7:28:12 PM)

First impressions not so good? I am on the fence to buy the product. Darn, still on the fence. [&:]



targul -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/22/2007 7:52:00 PM)

Sorry kevinkin but after what they gave us as a playback for PBEM I would have to recommend you stay on the fence. 

These guys simply do not know what to do yet.  This patch was pathetic and I am worried now that they just do not have the capability of doing what is necessary to produce a truely great game.  Some really good ideas but they do not seem able to implement what is industry standard.  In this industry that has low standards and they havent met low yet.

I can say game remains fun and AI seems okay but there is really no way to do PBEM with what we have. IP may now be available I havent tried yet. 



kevinkins -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/22/2007 7:59:55 PM)

Jim

I see you are also into SC2 at the Battlefront forum at least. Should I go in that direction for the next few months? Its not really the money but I would rather put the TIME into the right gaming experiance. Looks like Weapons and Warfare will be out soon (date?).

Thanks.

Kevin

PS your passion for gaming is very evident.



targul -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/22/2007 8:11:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkin

Jim

I see you are also into SC2 at the Battlefront forum at least. Should I go in that direction for the next few months? Its not really the money but I would rather put the TIME into the right gaming experiance. Looks like Weapons and Warfare will be out soon (date?).

Thanks.

Kevin

PS your passion for gaming is very evident.


It is already a completed game which I can highly recommend. There is an expansion in Aug/Sep which according to the Playtesters only makes the game better.

Hubert, the designer and code writter, is very friendly and listens to his players.

Should you pick that game up and wish to play a PBEM or IP game give me a hollar. I am not nearly as profient with the game as most on that board but I also do not do anything fancy I just play WWII as it was historically.

Have fun with whichever you decide.



SMK-at-work -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/23/2007 12:57:48 AM)

Started a game yesterday as Axis, max allied advantage, with oil.  Am at April 42.

1 U-boat was dead on T3 - hit a convoy then 2 destroyers mugged it.

conquered Poland by T3, Denmark T6, holland and Belgium as per normal.  France held out until end of August 40.  Went straight to Sealion - RN created havoc among the transports, but was swamped by sheer numbers so I got ashore, secured an ungarrisoned Bristol quickly and conquered all of mainland UK by august 41, then the Sov Union attacked - have killed lots, but am unable to make headway & am slowly getting pushed back.  the 2nd sub was sunk protecting the invasion convoys.

Landed a corps in northern Ireland to take out the RAF there, but it got mauled by the RN on the way over and is only killing 1 point/turn.

Plenty of oil, but Germany is down to 2nd grad manpower for about 4-5 months now.

Sov union had lvl 4 armour when it joined the war & that's been making life difficult - mine is stil better at 6, but had a bad turn where he swamped it and killed 2 of the original 3 groups & the Sov's seem to have an awful lot of theirs!  their a/f is mostly ineffective, taking big hits every time it tries to strike or intercept, but again there's a lot of it.

the UK has started landing single corps on the north coast of France (from Feb 42) which has dragged off some troops from the East.  I need to build a few subs to intercept them in the Atlantic I think....

In the mean time the Italians have conquered Nth Africa without too much bother, and taken Iraq.  Iran is next, but Beirut is holding out against land attack.

Overall it's a tough game - mainly due to the numbers of allied units.  Research is fairly slow due to combat being hard and many points being spent to replace casualties.  If I could get a couple of moves without many losses German manpower would probably increase back up to 1st class level, but that doesnt' seem likely.  Oil isn't too bad yet - down to about 170 & Iran will help a bit more......



Vypuero -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/23/2007 1:33:03 AM)

Targul has NO idea what he is talking about.  In fact so far it must be the perfect game for him, because he gets to whine like a bitch and just beat up on easy settings on the AI - when he played a human he got his ass handed to him.  Why don't you go to SC2 and whore for them some more, and leave us alone?



Happycat -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/23/2007 2:15:02 AM)

quote:

Why don't you go to SC2 and whore for them some more, and leave us alone?


Ouch. [X(] Strong opinions on all sides...



targul -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/23/2007 2:22:00 AM)

Simple. I paid for this game and want it to be correct and good. I need not leave because you like garbage.

You can be sure I will leave soon though because once SC2 brings out WAW I will be gone. During that interm I will continue to test this game.

You may not like what I say but until they ban me I will continue to say it. This game needs a playback. As to the AI it has some problems but overall it seems adequate. I have only mentioned the AI problems so they can fix them which is why I specifically say what the problem is.

Med has no active AI. Africa has no active AI. Otherwise AI works fine.



LitFuel -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/23/2007 4:29:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

Simple. I paid for this game and want it to be correct and good. I need not leave because you like garbage.

You can be sure I will leave soon though because once SC2 brings out WAW I will be gone. During that interm I will continue to test this game.

You may not like what I say but until they ban me I will continue to say it. This game needs a playback. As to the AI it has some problems but overall it seems adequate. I have only mentioned the AI problems so they can fix them which is why I specifically say what the problem is.

Med has no active AI. Africa has no active AI. Otherwise AI works fine.


Whatever...you came into this game with an agenda and you can leave with it as well. I firmly believe at this point you will never be happy no matter what they do. From what I'm reading you really haven't fully tried all the settings or had any thought of giving this game a chance. Far more are having great fun with it without all the bitching. SC fan boy is all you are to me at this point and the developers deserve more then constant knee jerk reactions. Why can't a group of people just appreciate the different games instead of blasting what they do not understand.



targul -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/23/2007 4:50:49 AM)

Not sure where you get your opinions. I play almost all games. This was the latest release so this is the one I am playing. Well that is not true I did buy the Civil War game they brought out afterward. I spent 3 days trying to figure out how to play it and never did.

It is extremely complicated and I am not a big fan of the Civil War. But I do buy all the releases from Matrix and only SC2 fromt the other company so if you are going to say I side with one company over another I would say it would be Matrix.

I have play HOI2 for years. Complained on that board also until it was developed the way I like it and now with Stoney Road I like it.

I hope the developers do read what I have written since the criticism is meant for them. It is there responsibilty to make the game better. I am willing to buy what is produced in order to support the hobby and expect the developers to make the best they can.

I have written them personnally on some things I consider very good and on some things I consider bad. I have mentioned the things I like and the things I dont like. If we all hide our heads and dont give feedback good or bad they will never know.

I am finding since the patch the balance is much better. I am finding the AI is better overall. I do remain unhappy with the lack of AI in the Med or Africa. And as I have said if they fix those areas they could potentially have the best AI in the game. I have also said the AI even as it is is second in the industry IMO.

So have I been only negative nope. But I have been negative about this lack of playback for PBEM. I prefer to play using PBEM but since I am usually playing a dozen or so games from a variety of companies at the same time without a good playback it is impossible for me to know what is happening.





kevinkins -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/23/2007 5:53:15 AM)

Hey Vypuero ... which is better SG2 or this new game? Let's see what YOU are talking about.

Targul is trying to make things better for all of us gamers. His posts are filled with facts. As I read these posts
the game seems to have many problems. We are only trying help.

Kevin



zman1974 -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/23/2007 6:30:03 AM)

To be fair, comparing SC2 to C:EAW is hard to do without the realization that SC2 is on version 1.06, and is about to enter it's third generation of game overhaul.  C:EAW is just a baby by comparison.  Give it time.  I think the developers are listening to our issues, and to expect too much from the first patch is unrealistic, IMO.  Now, six months from now if we are seeing the same issues, then by all means, feed them to the wolves:)

For me, my biggest issue is the AI for the Med; universally expressed by detractors and supporters of this game the AI is abysmal.  Fix that, and my enjoyment level of Commander will increase exponentially.

Jim



SMK-at-work -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/23/2007 6:46:17 AM)

I think CEAW is better now than SC2 was when it first came out, but then the CEAW folks have had a few years to see how SC2 did and what mistakes it made, so I think it is perfectly fair to compare them.



Vypuero -> RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? (7/23/2007 4:26:15 PM)

Well - I have little trouble seeing what is happening in the game with the new PBEM - you see enemy units that have attacked, as FOW is off, and you can see what the strengths are and even the movement paths.  Attacks are indicated in Red.  It is not as pretty as replay, but it also doesn't crash like replay often does for me in PG II.  It also has TCP/IP which works very well and is very enjoayable for me to play.  I prefer that whenever possible, it is just more fun.  Oil is definitely in issue in the game for the Axis.



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