CSA artillery (Full Version)

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fortdick -> CSA artillery (7/20/2007 11:03:54 PM)

I am very frustrated with this game. I am playing as the CSA, advanced rules, 2nd Lt. difficulty. I always play quick combat. The ANV is based in Fredricksburg and has two artillary regiments. I upgrade both from 6pd'ers to howitzers or ordinance rifle.

The problem is, they never engage in quick combat. The union attacks always have two or three artie regs that inflict like 6,000 casualties per attack, but the CSA artie never engages. No casualties reported or inflicted in the combat report. They don't even show up.

Is this something I am doing wrong, or is it the game? I can't hold Fredricksburg despite how ever many troops I put in there without artillary support.



cesteman -> RE: CSA artillery (7/21/2007 3:21:53 AM)

I ran into that problem when playing quick combat when I was just learning the game. I was frustrated and gave up on using this feature. I always put an "X" in the detailed combat box when starting a new scenario and this gives me three options now. quick combat, detailed combat, and instant combat. With these options in mind, I always have a choice as to what type of combat I want. Usually, I choose instant because it's a small battle, or one I'd rather the computer fight. For the larger battles, I play in detailed combat. On a side note, I've found that with superior numbers I can still loose the battle in instant combat, so I try to play these in detailed mode. Hope this helps.



CeltiCid -> RE: CSA artillery (7/21/2007 4:11:56 AM)

sure it helps, if you have the neccesary time to play detailled or just want to do it for fun. But this should be fixed, i think [;)]



Gil R. -> RE: CSA artillery (7/21/2007 4:22:18 AM)

This is the first I've heard of such a problem. You're saying that artillery units (not siege artillery, but regular artillery) that are in an army are not getting into battles, or are you saying they're there but do nothing? In quick combat you'd see them on the screen if they're there -- are you seeing them, or not?

On pg. 68 of the .pdf manual there is a section called "Battle Limits" that says that if more units show up for battle than can fit in the charge/attack/defend area they start in the routed area and have to make a rally check to get into the battle. By any chance are your artillery units showing up there and failing to make it into the fight?

Also, are your artillery units the ones you start with (Legendary Units, or otherwise), or are you creating them by adding two "brigade artillery" attributes to an infantry brigade, which has the result of cutting quality in half?



ericbabe -> RE: CSA artillery (7/21/2007 5:39:51 AM)

If there are too many units in a province, then not all of them will be able to fight in a Quick Battle.  I'm pretty sure there's a section to this effect in the manual.




LeBlaque -> RE: CSA artillery (7/21/2007 6:40:42 PM)

Does not the level of supply the artillery unit has effect its ability to join QB and its capability therein? I seem to recall, but need to re-visit the specifics, that if an artillery unit moves and has no special attributes than supply for that unit is often going to be severely impacted. Consequently, without supply (ammo, etc.) the unit will not join a QB and will be very much handicapped at the outset of hex wars until re-supplied.

I seem to remember seeing the same kind of "problem" in QB before and have since always upgraded my artillery units with a supply wagon attribute. I don't see it now...

I'm certainly willing to be corrected on this "observation."

Regards,
LeBlaque



CeltiCid -> RE: CSA artillery (7/21/2007 6:49:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

If there are too many units in a province, then not all of them will be able to fight in a Quick Battle. I'm pretty sure there's a section to this effect in the manual.




I think there should be a priority set on the battle preferences, where the artillery and cavalry be the first unit to enter the battle, then the legenday. It is stupid the best units of one´s general army dosent fight because there are too many units.

I dont know if this can be programmed, but i think that any general in that war, will always use the artillery units in the battlefield, and put out poorest units if neccesary...



Gil R. -> RE: CSA artillery (7/21/2007 7:11:39 PM)

To be honest, I don't know about the supply issue. And Eric has just left for a week of camping, so I can't ask him. But one piece of advice (for now, at least) would be to have fewer units in battle. If you have mediocre brigades that are at roughly 1000 men (or less), don't be afraid to disband them, which sends their troops to other brigades in the "container" and makes them that much stronger: this will make your better units tougher as well as giving the artillery a better chance of entering the battle.



fortdick -> RE: CSA artillery (7/21/2007 8:09:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

To be honest, I don't know about the supply issue. And Eric has just left for a week of camping, so I can't ask him. But one piece of advice (for now, at least) would be to have fewer units in battle. If you have mediocre brigades that are at roughly 1000 men (or less), don't be afraid to disband them, which sends their troops to other brigades in the "container" and makes them that much stronger: this will make your better units tougher as well as giving the artillery a better chance of entering the battle.



With the number of troops the union sends against me, I can't stop them with everything I have thrown in.

The units in this case are the two artie reg.'s that you start with in Fredrickburg. It is just a matter of time until the union sends overwhelming forces agaisnt me and the disparity in artillary prevent sme from holding the region.



Gil R. -> RE: CSA artillery (7/21/2007 8:25:00 PM)

When are these "overwhelming forces" hitting? If it's the first year of the war, the CSA should have a good chance. If it's later in the war, you need to have been making more artillery units.

Since there is (currently) no guarantee of artillery units entering quick combat, the more you have, the better. I'd strongly recommend not relying on the initial two, but creating some more artillery as soon as you are able. If you can't afford the time/money to purchase them, then just use the trick of combining two brigade artillery attributes. That will make for an initially poor unit, but after a few battles it will gain in quality enough to make a difference. Also, make your artillery units more effective by purchasing attributes for them, such as baggage train. (And I think Hard Sarge likes to buy "Sharpshooters" for them.) In quick combat, units that have special abilities and brigade attributes get special bonuses, so this will make your artillery deadlier.




fortdick -> RE: CSA artillery (7/21/2007 9:53:40 PM)

The overwhlming forces hit about middle of '63.  By that time, they have drawn all my reinforcements to the west.  I have tried keeping a mall army in Lynchburg purely to reinforce ANV, but even that can;t stand up to the number without artillary.

The only way I have found that the South can win is to spend all my money building camps and plantations until the threat in the west can be dealt with.  Until then, there is very little money to spend on artillary units (or even sharpshooters for that point(.

I will try the baggage train and see if that helps.  I will report back with the results.



Gil R. -> RE: CSA artillery (7/21/2007 10:18:21 PM)

I assume that you've read the thread by Valdemar on Southern strategy? That might help. As the South, you definitely need money. To get it, you should build mints, impress whenever the odds favor you, and invest in diplomacy enough to keep a steady stream of runners' goods out there in the water.

Here's another tip, one that many new players don't realize: (assuming that you're playing with advanced supply rules toggled on) whenever a division/corps/army is reasonably well supplied (all units at at least 5 supply) AND there is little chance of being in battle once one ends the turn, put that entire force on "No Supply" so as to avoid the supply costs. If the ANV is well-supplied, you can afford to take it off supply for a turn or two, and that will save you a lot of money. It involves a bit of micromanaging, but it's the best way of using your resources where you need them most.



fortdick -> RE: CSA artillery (7/21/2007 10:26:20 PM)

Yep.  I have read Vald's piece.  Good info in there, although I place high priority on logistics to get Invalid Cor as soon as possible.  I have to check out the no supply feature.

BTW, does increasing the supply level for a unit increase its share of reinforcements received?  I am sure it is the manual, but I have a hard time reading it off the computer.  (Ididn;t get in myorder in time to get the hard copy for original buiyers.)



Gil R. -> RE: CSA artillery (7/21/2007 10:48:47 PM)

Yes, most definitely. If you put a division on high supply it will soak up more than twice the number of replacement troops it would get on "low supply."



fortdick -> RE: CSA artillery (7/22/2007 11:55:41 PM)

Okay, here is what I did.  I moved both artie units out of the ANV and into the 2nd CSA army in Lynchburg.  I then upgraded an infrantry unit in ANV and all of them showed up on the QB screen.  With the single artie unit the ANV has help off two attacks of 130k+ USA agasinst 80k CSA.  That single battery makes a huge diofference.

I think there is something buggy with those two units at the beginning.



Gil R. -> RE: CSA artillery (7/23/2007 12:18:12 AM)

I'm glad you've got things working more to your liking.

I can't see how there could be a bug involving these artillery units. Is anyone else having trouble getting them into quick combat battles?

By the way, another good thing you can do as the South, having lots of horses, is combine two brigade cavalries into a new cavalry brigade and then purchase horse artillery for it. The total cost in terms of money will be 60, and you will have a very good unit (especially if you then use some more horses to give it "quality horses"). This is a way of adding the equivalent of brigade artillery but at half the cost in iron (admittedly, it's at three times the cost in money, but you need more cavalry units, anyway).



Erik Rutins -> RE: CSA artillery (7/23/2007 1:03:18 AM)

Please note these are not actually artillery _batteries_ but rather artillery _brigades_ as modeled by the game, so you're talking more like 40 or 50 guns per unit. They should have a very significant effect in a battle.



Twotribes -> RE: CSA artillery (7/23/2007 1:13:37 AM)

Only 30 brigades will show up in a fight. No matter the army strength. You can get up to 15 more with a reinforcement. I generally have my main armies with 2 corps of 3 divisions each of 5 brigades each ( Union) I then provide a seperate corps of 3 Divisions behind the line to reinforce with.

With the South you might want 5 divisions of 6 brigades of each and a corps with 3 divisions of 5 brigades each.

Remember to have your best Generals ( top 3 anyway) in main force and the seperate Corps should have a commander with a good chance to move.



cesteman -> RE: CSA artillery (7/24/2007 11:06:34 AM)

Nice information Twotribes. I am always looking for other input on detailed battles fought. Why not share your thoughts with us.



Twotribes -> RE: CSA artillery (7/24/2007 3:14:55 PM)

That is for Quick battles. I do not play a lot of detailed battles so have not figured out the limits on it. Hard Sarge should know that info though. The limits may be similar though.



Mr. Yuck -> RE: CSA artillery (7/25/2007 6:22:45 PM)

I don't think there are limits for detailed combats. I've only been playing them for a month though.

You get all your forces that are in the province already and you can reinforce from adjacent provinces any time. The reinforcement show up at the rate of two units per turn and whether they are fatigued or fresh depends on whether you have a rail link to move them.

Time consuming? Yes but detailed combat is definitely the way to go when facing a superior force.



Gil R. -> RE: CSA artillery (7/26/2007 6:48:57 AM)

There's no limit. In "Crown of Glory" there used to be a limit so that battles could not be bigger than the biggest Napoleonic battles, but too many players howled about it, so the limit was dropped from the engine.



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