Thinking About Buying But (Full Version)

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Rocko911 -> Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 4:13:52 AM)

Thinking about buying this, since it would be a change WW1 vs WW2 for me. But I have some issues to be resolved:
1) Would like to see an AAR of the game
2) Is the interface that bad? Like people keep saying.
3) Resolution is it only a problem for the wide screen users?
4) I heard the manual was not that detailed.
I would appreciate those who really have played answer versus the wannabes. Thanks



Bossy573 -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 4:28:43 AM)

1. NCD just yet.
2. No, it isn't that bad once you get used to it. But this seems to be a personal preference.
3. My desktop monitor (1600x1200) is not a wide-screen and the game just doesn't work well on it. The game map doesn't fit in the game window and it leaves a swathe of blank screen inside the game window. VERY annoying! My laptop is a widescreen (1200x800) and the game looks great on it, although it plays in a window, not stretched full screen. Not a problem, really.
4. The manual is 38 pages, 30 or so is dedicated to gameplay. It is not detailed but explains the basics very well. You need to play a bit to learn the finer details.

MHO is buy it. I just played for a couple of hours and the more I see, the more I like. [:)]



*Lava* -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 5:01:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LRRP

2) Is the interface that bad?


Nope.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LRRP
4) I heard the manual was not that detailed.


From what I can see is that manual pretty much touches all the bases with one problem (that I can see based on a quick read through), and that is explaining how the "turn" actually works.

The manual is very explicit about how the tactic part of the game is played, explaining the 1) activation phase, 2) orders phase, 3) resolution phase and 4) the playback phase.

The problem is that before all this happens you have the "strategic phase" in which you buy new units, research, etc., and this is not explicitly cited as such, although all the elements are explained. Basically this is the second half of the manual, but it is not actually put up front as being part of the Strategic Phase.

It could have been done more clearly in the section concerning turns by explaining that the game has two parts, strategic and tactical and listing their sequence (strategic, activation, orders, resolution, etc.).

However, once you put hands on the game, it becomes pretty clear what is going on and what the sequence of events is.

I'd wait for other folks to play the game a bit before jumping to conclusions based on sweeping generalizations made by only a couple folks.

Ray (alias Lava)



TheHellPatrol -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 5:10:44 AM)

From what i've seen i'd have to say NO...the interface, the graphics, no friggin' tutorial and a "useless" manual. That and if you take a look at the total disregard for what appears to be a rogue developer...Hussar Games...released a "bonus patch"(For Liberty)
that BROKE the game...where "IS" the support? Matrix...what happened to support?



LarryP -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 5:35:02 AM)

Has Frank Hunter even been around here to answer questions?

I KNOW nobody from Huszar hasn't been around in the For Liberty! forum.

HellPatrol: Did you end up getting GoA? [&:] If so, tell me about it. Oh, how is Civ4 expansion?



typhoon -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 5:46:03 AM)

For once I'm comming out as a vocal fan normally I'm content to just read watch buy play and tend to stay pretty quiet. Yet this game is good. Alright I cant do an AAR the interface is not all glitz but in my opinion does it's job very well. The resolution didn't bother me one bit. Yes the manual could have more content and maybe a walkthrough of the first couple of turns. All that aside however what we have is a game. That for me is the most important point. The gameplay is great it feels acts looks and seems like WWI. A proper old school Wargame and over the years I've missed them this takes you back to the good old days. The HQ rules are unique in computer wargamming well at least I think so and they make the whole thing feel right. You have a great deal to do to keep your nation fighting it will take a long long time to master this but the whole experience for me so far has been very enjoyable. Thank you



themattcurtis -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 6:09:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

Has Frank Hunter even been around here to answer questions?

I KNOW nobody from Huszar hasn't been around in the For Liberty! forum.

HellPatrol: Did you end up getting GoA? [&:] If so, tell me about it. Oh, how is Civ4 expansion?


Look around before tossing in words like "even." He has posted in this forum, taking it on the chin for how some people feel about the interface...I'm ticked about Hussar and FL, too, but now folks are just assuming the worst wherever they go.

Jeesh



LarryP -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 6:13:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: themattcurtis

quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

Has Frank Hunter even been around here to answer questions?

I KNOW nobody from Huszar hasn't been around in the For Liberty! forum.

HellPatrol: Did you end up getting GoA? [&:] If so, tell me about it. Oh, how is Civ4 expansion?


Look around before tossing in words like "even." He has posted in this forum, taking it on the chin for how some people feel about the interface...I'm ticked about Hussar and FL, too, but now folks are just assuming the worst wherever they go.

Jeesh


I don't regret using the word "even" one bit. One note though, the word "even" is one word, not "words." I see now that he has been around, that's good. I'm happy for the players of GoA.



TheHellPatrol -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 6:28:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

I KNOW nobody from Huszar hasn't been around in the For Liberty! forum.

HellPatrol: Did you end up getting GoA? [&:] If so, tell me about it. Oh, how is Civ4 expansion?
As Donald Rumsfeld would have said these are "unknown known's"
Yes, i received my "game" and it is what it is...an "extension"...quality, and "beef"...good fun, and a little 'poof' ...
Guns Of August? Nooooo,i've seen the writing on the wall, but??? if i'm bored and the hard copy comes out...oops "the manual is useless"...well...the For Liberty fiasco is ...i dunno...Civ 4 Beyond The Sword Offers alot of content[:)]. A Man has GOT to know his limitations[8D].



themattcurtis -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 1:26:24 PM)

[/quote]
One note though, the word "even" is one word, not "words."
[/quote]

Yer not my grammar coach[:)], and that come back was pretty darn weak, to boot. But if that's what you have to grab on to, then go for it.

Point still stands that the guy is here to try and support his game. If you wanna knock something, point out I couldn't get the quote function to work properly.



Moltke71 -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 3:11:04 PM)

Let me take on the concept of interface in general.  If you are really interested in a subject and see a game as a way to understand the subject via "what ifs", interface problems will be transitory at worst.  If you approach a game as just fun - not at all a bad thing- ,then an unusal interface can spoil it.  So it's a matter of gaming priorities.

What bothers me is the increasing demand for "inituitive" easy interfaces that will crimp a developer's style, forcing him into mainstream, mediocre paradigms.



LarryP -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 5:08:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: themattcurtis

Yer not my grammar coach[:)], and that come back was pretty darn weak, to boot. But if that's what you have to grab on to, then go for it.

Point still stands that the guy is here to try and support his game. If you wanna knock something, point out I couldn't get the quote function to work properly.


You're correct, and you are not mine. [:-] My comeback was weak because I wasn't looking to fight and I am still not. At my age, I have had plenty of fighting in my life and this is the last place I want to fight. Fighting through the Internet is silly. I am sorry if you were offended, but me using the word "even" is splitting hairs in my opinion. I acknowleged that Frank Hunter was around in my first reply to you. Again, I am glad for the players of GoA that Frank is now here answering questions. Far from the For Liberty! forum.

If it would make you feel better, I will go to my original post and remove the word "even." Just ask and I will.

Now you can reply with whatever you want, nasty or nice, but I am not going to say anymore to you about this so the floor is all your's for the last reply if you so choose... [>:]



coreymas -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 5:27:38 PM)

Okay so i am on the fence about buying this game.  So i need a bit of convincing before i go over the top.

Would anyone who is playing the game now like to comment about this games similarity to the board game Guns of August from Avalon Hill?  I really liked the strategic aspect of that game just hated the counters.

And i put this disclaimer in -- in no way shape or form am i implying or directly saying that Frank copied it or took pieces from it.

Corey



7th Somersets -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 5:47:54 PM)

I would not say it was similar to the Avalon Hill game at all - save that you have the same war and many of the 'issues' are the same.

This game, IMHO is a big improvement, given the huge variety of other factors that you have to take on board such as all the strategic decisions...



coreymas -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 6:00:36 PM)

I guess my question is this -- is there a lot of managment of resources (like men, materiel, guns, artillery etc) or is this all abstracted?

I mean can you pick and choose what units to reinforce, or is there an abstracted system of lets say 20% replacement per turn?

I want to get the feeling that i am managing an economy along with the war effort and not just some military tactics game.

Corey



7th Somersets -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 6:21:20 PM)

You get to choose which units get the replacement troops - it is not automatic. You also choose which HQ units you attach activation points to.

So far as the 'economy' is concerned - you do manage the military aspect of that. You get to choose where your country's economic effort is deployed - within certain limits (like manpower). I find that I will conduct my campaigns around many key features (like capturing industrial or food growing areas) to cripple the enemy economies. Things like subs can play an important role too.






coreymas -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 6:27:18 PM)

This is why i wanted to get my hands on the manual.  To understand the game mechanics.  Cause i dont want to buy some beer and pretzels type game (like Axis and Allies) cause i really like details.

Corey



TheHellPatrol -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 8:22:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

Let me take on the concept of interface in general.  If you are really interested in a subject and see a game as a way to understand the subject via "what ifs", interface problems will be transitory at worst.  If you approach a game as just fun - not at all a bad thing- ,then an unusal interface can spoil it.  So it's a matter of gaming priorities.

What bothers me is the increasing demand for "inituitive" easy interfaces that will crimp a developer's style, forcing him into mainstream, mediocre paradigms.


[8|]Yeah, i am REALLY interested in the Civil War and bought 2(two) copies of Forge Of Freedom as i had experience beta-testing/playing COG and FOF. The interface and design ended up giving me such a headache i couldn't take it anymore[&o]. That is just ME...i know, it is a superb program but i just can't stand the way things work eg:"containers"



LarryP -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 9:57:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHellPatrol

[8|]Yeah, i am REALLY interested in the Civil War and bought 2(two) copies of Forge Of Freedom as i had experience beta-testing/playing COG and FOF. The interface and design ended up giving me such a headache i couldn't take it anymore[&o]. That is just ME...i know, it is a superb program but i just can't stand the way things work eg:"containers"


Do you play AACW? [&:]



TheHellPatrol -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/25/2007 10:38:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

Do you play AACW? [&:]
Of course, although i do tire of manipulating the units with the larger scenarios. A keyboard "cycle units" is not enough IMHO and they should learn from SSG.



Bossy573 -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/26/2007 2:35:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: coreymas

Cause i dont want to buy some beer and pretzels type game (like Axis and Allies) cause i really like details.

Corey


This is definitely not Axis and Allies but if you are looking for a lot of tactical flair it wont happen. The nature of the beast. This is a war of attrition and industrial might and the designer has modeled this extremely well. I dig this game more with each minute played. [:)]



sol_invictus -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/26/2007 2:36:20 AM)

[sm=sad-1361.gif]



coreymas -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/26/2007 3:55:33 PM)

I was hoping that the game would get me to feel and understand the history behind the war.  To understand what it was like to have to make strategic decisions based upon limited resources, manpower etc.

The nature of the war was not very fluid and i do understand that.  I just want to feel like the French high command in 1916 when Verdun was happening and to bite my nails and worry that the end could be near.

Does anyone get that feeling when they play the game?

Corey



7th Somersets -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/26/2007 4:01:40 PM)

Corey,

I have played games where - with the French and Germans in particular - that you are constantly wondering whether your manpower will hold up. I think that I have stated elsewhere that I have launched sustained British offensives to relieve pressure on the French (history does repeat!).

Also,

As per Bossy's comments above - this is a war of industrial might and attrition - but you can see why people tried to break it with campaigns in the other theatres. Top marks to Frank Hunter for adding Mesopotamia to the game during development - it allows the Turks to fight on all main fronts for them.

Regards.



Hanal -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/26/2007 6:43:24 PM)

If no one starts up an AAR by tomorrow morning, I'll crank one out......



*Lava* -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/26/2007 8:08:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: J P Falcon

If no one starts up an AAR by tomorrow morning, I'll crank one out......


[:)]

Looking forward to it JP!

Ray (alias Lava)



Wooglin -> RE: Thinking About Buying But (7/26/2007 10:42:59 PM)

Couple of thoughts:

2. I do not think the interface is that bad but it has does have a learning curve. Even after reading the manual, you will have to do a few practice games before playing for real just to figure out where and when to do things. One nice thing is that the game will send you a reminder if you are about to go onto a next turn without building trenches, allocating air power & etc. when such resources are available.

3. I have had NO resolution problems on either my monitor or widescreen laptop. I think it just uses your windows resolution rather than setting a different one at launch.

4. I found the manual lacking but it's not a game breaker.

If very high quality graffix are important for you, this is not a game you will probably like. But, my gut is if you are over 30 you will love it.

Frank Hunter has "even" been around here. He helped me resolve a bug issue you will see in another thread. I think he does a lot of lurking.

For the general feel of the gameplay - strategic vs. tactical, micromanagement vs. grand strategy - I feel the game is similar to Frank's ACW Sumter to Appomatox (sp) which is available as freeware (see older posts in this forum for link). IMHO the game balances these all pretty well.

The game has very high replayability.

Does it have in depth history? Yes and no. Yes: before each strategic turn there is a very detailed explanation about what is happening around the world on lesser fronts - this is cool even if I sometimes don't read it through. However, I have not seen any historical "events" (like you would have in a Paradox game) with a short history explanation.

- w



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