Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (Full Version)

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SiTheSly -> Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/25/2007 5:31:23 PM)

Hi,

Can anyone help with this question?

What is the criteria that enables you to transfer RM, Food and Industrial Points between allies?

In my game which is now Jul/Aug 1915 I could transfer from Britain to Russia but now I cannot do it and as far as I can see nothing has changed.

I'm not sure why I was allowed it in the first place but for reference I control NA, North Sea no one has the Baltic and I have shipping in the North Atlantic and Amph points available in the North Sea. Also although I could transfer from UK to Russia I could not transfer from Russia to the UK which seems strange to me. Since the only way to reach Russia from Britain is via ship why couldn't the ships pick up raw materials after dropping of industial points? They would surely not sail back empty.

Anyway if anyone knows the exact criteria it would help since I'm too far into my game to experiment with various startegies like putting ships in the Baltic etc.

Thanks for any help



sol_invictus -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/25/2007 5:47:47 PM)

I don't have the game yet, but the only thing that comes to mind is Turkey becoming a belligerent.



SiTheSly -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/25/2007 5:53:43 PM)

Turkey did join the Central Powers very early like second turn and I transferred after that so I don't think its that but I see your point regarding a land passage via the Middle East.

Was hoping someone would know for sure. Thanks for the guess!



FrankHunter -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/25/2007 8:24:16 PM)

Normally to transfer RMs and such to allies requires a friendly rail line.  For Britain to send material overseas you need the following

To Italy : Control the West Med and the Atlantic
To France : Control the Atlantic
To Russia, Control the North Sea and Baltic Sea
               or Control the Atlantic, West Med, East Med and Black Sea
                      



SiTheSly -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/25/2007 9:24:05 PM)

Thanks Frank,

I must have been transferring to Russia when they had control of the Baltic.

However that does not explain how I could transfer from France to Britain and vice versa for a while since I know I have not lost control of the North Atlantic and I also have shipping from both parties there.

Oh well at least I know that by opening up the Baltic I can get back to transfering Industrial points to Russia since that saved my arse in 1914 by allowing the Eastern offensives to threaten Berlin.

Its just so tempting seeing that huge pile of Russian raw materials sitting there and although I'm not suffering shortages in the west I wouldn't mind a cushion.

Thanks for the quick reply - I'm enjoying the game.



SMK-at-work -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/26/2007 12:22:46 AM)

quote:

However that does not explain how I could transfer from France to Britain and vice versa for a while since I know I have not lost control of the North Atlantic and I also have shipping from both parties there.


do you mean you could NOT transfer?

Possible answers include not having anythign to transfer, or control being contested.



SiTheSly -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/26/2007 2:06:13 AM)

Neither of those were in effect - I've finished the game now, it ended July 1916 when Germany surrendered.

If I have time I might start a new one but then again I'll probably opt for the CP since I haven't played them.

I still don't know how exactly your supposed to transfer to the UK I can get the transfer from the UK fine.

Since the British tend to be the the one who are supplying the others especially in the beginning its not a showstopper but towards the end the UK starts to get a deceifit in raw materials and even then its only a problem if you had dipped into the UK's large stockpile to help others out.

This happened to me because I hadn't quite figured out the shipping and left France for one or two turns with no trade in the begining of the war. Siince this is when Germany has taken some resource from France and the U-Boat threat is the highest I had to ship in supplies from the UK to stop France from going to the wall.



SMK-at-work -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/26/2007 2:10:47 AM)

I wonder if supply transfers FROM acountry will only use that contry's ships - so to transfer supplies tTO the UK from France or Russia you need to have French or Russian ships in the sea zones to do it?



SiTheSly -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/26/2007 8:23:23 AM)

I don't think that is it because when  I transferred from the UK to Russia I didn't have any ships in the Baltic it was the Russians who did.



sol_invictus -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/28/2007 7:26:07 PM)

From Frank's comment, it seems that the only country that can transfer material over water is Britain. All other transfers require a rail connection. The TE simply needs contol of a zone in order to transfer, no ship units are required.



SiTheSly -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/28/2007 7:52:27 PM)

Thats right, it also means that you can never transfer items to Britain only from.



sol_invictus -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/28/2007 8:08:56 PM)

This is good, because the thought of Russia sending Britain Food or other war materials would be very gamey.



Szilard -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/29/2007 2:23:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Normally to transfer RMs and such to allies requires a friendly rail line.  For Britain to send material overseas you need the following

To Russia, Control the North Sea and Baltic Sea
               or Control the Atlantic, West Med, East Med and Black Sea
                      



I really think that should be changed. The Baltic route should never be available, and a hostile Turkey should totally block the second route unless the Allies control Constantinople.

Without this, why should the Allies ever worry particularly about Turkey? Historically, Turkey going to the CP was a huge disaster for the Allies, cutting off most of Russia's trade; hence Gallipolli, the Mesopotamian disasters etc etc.



SMK-at-work -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/29/2007 2:39:06 AM)

One of Russia's main problems with WW1 was financing it - it had a massive surplus of food which was the mainstay of its peace-time exports.  One of hte reasons for Gallipoli was to open the straights to enable Russian food exports - so the idea of them sending food to the UK is anything but gamey....the exact implemntation is something else...

I was never able to export anything to or from Russia in any of my beta games IIRC.



Szilard -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/29/2007 2:47:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

One of Russia's main problems with WW1 was financing it - it had a massive surplus of food which was the mainstay of its peace-time exports.  One of hte reasons for Gallipoli was to open the straights to enable Russian food exports - so the idea of them sending food to the UK is anything but gamey....the exact implemntation is something else...

I was never able to export anything to or from Russia in any of my beta games IIRC.



I just tested it. Even with a CP-controlled Constantinople, if the Allies have uncontested control of Atlantic, West Med, East Med and Black Sea, then the UK can send stuff to Russia, as Frank stated.

Hopefully this gets changed in a patch - it doesn't make any sense, and it's really a-historical.

Absolutely agree on Russian food exports.



SMK-at-work -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/29/2007 2:54:50 AM)

Yes....that's quite wrong - without cConstantinople you can't send stuff to the Black sea - it was somethign that did get a few mentions in hte Beta, but obviously wasn't sorted out properly :(



sol_invictus -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/29/2007 3:41:18 AM)

When I used the term "gamey", I should have said highly unlikely. Certainly before the war, Russia was a net food exporter, but after a few years of war, bread riots helped spark the revolution. I agree, the ability to send war materials through the Baltic and the Dardanelles should be strictly limited.



SiTheSly -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/29/2007 9:35:16 AM)

Its very easy to set up a supply line to Russia from Britain (against the AI). First send the entire RN fleet minus maybe two DNs (for the east med) to the North Sea and this will gain control of this area. At the same time send the Russian fleet into the Baltic to gain control of this body of water. This is more difficult since there is a small German presence but keep on and you can overcome the German squadron. Once you have control of both regions you can transfer from Britain to Russia whci is very useful since Russia has the manpoweer but no industrial strength. You cannot however transfer raw materials out of Russia back to Britain which would be useful since you could then transfer them to France.

This is the reason why I think the free from conflict transfer of the German navy to Rostock (see other thread) is important since it allows the Germans to stop this by controlling the Baltic without the huge Naval expenditure needed to repair the fleet after being mauled in the North Sea.

I have been playing as the CP and tried a Russia first approach which worked well accept I was determined to stop Britain to Russia transfers and with hindsight I spent too much on the Navy which cost me the Western front since I was unable to refit the corps there to full stength.

I have come to the conclusion that the CP should not bother with a Naval presence since you get 2 or  3 raw materials from the Baltic (no food)  but I was finding I was spending 18 naval resources per turn to rebuild the fleet.

I will restart another game but this time ignore the German navy except for the subs.

The Austrain navy on the other hand is superb at shutting down the East Med and only at a cost of 6 pts per turn or 12 every now and again. I never realized the Austrian navy was that powerful.



sol_invictus -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/29/2007 5:25:37 PM)

I agree, except for the U-Boats, I have found that Germany's fleet is best preserved as a potential threat. I still get mauled by the RN when I try to transfer from Wilhemshaven to Rostock. I hope this is corrected in the first patch, along with control of Constantinople being necessary to transfer material through the Dardanelles.

It would also be a nice addition to have damaged ships shaded in the list at the bottom left of the Naval Screen. It is a bit of a bother to scroll through all ships, hunting for any damaged ones.



SiTheSly -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/29/2007 5:53:35 PM)

I'm currently at start of 1916 with a new CP game and I agree with you Arinvald that even the subs are not worth it except when you have unrestricted warfare on then they are quite good. I tried sending my transports to the Baltic - big mistake - lost them all. I think your right that the HSF should be in harbour only unleashed as a big gamble if things are going badly and to tie up British Naval points.

Does anyone know if the unrestricted warfare is a one off hit (on foreign relations) or accumulates with every attack?

Does it affect all the nations (even pro CP) or just America?



sol_invictus -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/29/2007 6:46:42 PM)

I have been to fearful to unleash the fury of my U-Boats.[;)] I try to keep America on the sidelines as long as possible. Yeah, the HSF is a one shot gamble. If it is cripled, there is no way Germany is able to regenerate the threat.

Now that I think about it, the only gameplay changes that I think are necessary are ones that concern Naval Operations and these are fairly minor and should be doable if Frank thinks they make sense.

1.TE must control Constantinople in order to transfer War Materials through the Dardanelles.

2.Inreased cost of Naval Assets for the RN to enter and maintain itself in the Baltic.

3.Graphic borders for Sea Zones.

4.Graphic indicator in the list, to make it easy to tell which ships need repair.

For the moment, this is all I would change with the game.



FrankHunter -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/30/2007 9:50:55 PM)

All noted.  Can't figure out how I let the Constantinople thing slip by.



sol_invictus -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/30/2007 10:17:52 PM)

I posted this in another thread, but the TE should really be required to control both Gallipoli and Constantinople in order to Transfer War Materials to Russia, otherwise, the TE could do an Amphibious Assault directly against Constantinople and ignore Gallipoli. This would ensure that the TE actually contol the straights instead of just doing an end run on Constantinople.



SMK-at-work -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/31/2007 12:07:11 AM)

You can't assault striaght to Constantinople if Gallipoli is occupied tho - it blocks access....hence it's a good 1st move for the Turks!! :)

Conceivably controlling the forts in teh straights could be done seperately from controlling Constantinople tho (although it should be completely untenable position to hold in that case) - so you're probably right - you should control both.



sol_invictus -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/31/2007 2:45:10 AM)

I was thinking Russia might launch an assault on Constantinople from the Black Sea side.



SMK-at-work -> RE: Economic Transfers between Allies - need criteria (7/31/2007 3:47:36 AM)

Tannenberg got in the way!



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