Patch ETA? (Full Version)

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Blond_Knight -> Patch ETA? (8/2/2007 4:43:04 AM)

With the achknowledged problems with fueling/arming and the scenario editor is there an ETA on the patch?



RyanCrierie -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/2/2007 12:07:40 PM)

I'm wondering about this too. Perhaps it's being delayed because they want it to be more than just "oh, we fixed a problem!" but want to add a new scenario? [&:]



Scott_WAR -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/3/2007 1:19:59 AM)

I agree, if they are taking extra time to A)make sure the problems are fixed for good and B)add some MUCH NEEDED scenarios, then yeah, I say take all the time you need.



TheHellPatrol -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/3/2007 2:40:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

I agree, if they are taking extra time to A)make sure the problems are fixed for good and B)add some MUCH NEEDED scenarios, then yeah, I say take all the time you need.
I fear that you are thinking too positive Grasshopper, one must only look to the abundant deprivation of Battlefront scenarios[&o].



Blond_Knight -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/3/2007 3:45:25 AM)

Yeah SSG dont answer all at once.



Rocko911 -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/3/2007 4:37:25 AM)

This is sad, I should have bought something else. I have been happy with the progress on CEAW (commander Europe at War) the company is following up on patches and updates us regularly in the forum.



alexs -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/6/2007 7:06:05 AM)

Hi Guys,

We are pretty close with the patch - not sure of an eta, but we are currently testing the installer.

Alex



RyanCrierie -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/6/2007 1:49:16 PM)

YAY!!!!! [&o]



RyanCrierie -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/6/2007 3:26:15 PM)

Kind of stupid to ask; but will the patch include a slightly more detailed explanation of how to arrive at the ratings you did and how the various factors of an aircraft interact?

Like how do you get such and such firepower, power, etc ratings?



Hellcat_Canada -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/7/2007 3:44:40 AM)

Great to hear that a patch is on it's way.



alexs -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/7/2007 8:44:02 AM)

Hi Ryan,
No, the patch wont include that info, but I'll point Ian to this post - he's the man that calculates that sort of info. He's just left for a 3 week stay in the US, so he may take a little while to respond.

Alex



Gregor_SSG -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/8/2007 2:51:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight

Yeah SSG dont answer all at once.


Please don't hassle Alex, I think we would all agree that his time is best spent on working on the patch. As mentioned elsewhere, I've been away on holidays but I'm back now and will try to answer all questions in a timely fashion.

More generally, please remember that you are dealing with a very small company. This has a lot of advantages, in that you deal direct with the decision makers and your opinions and suggestions go direct to those who make the games.

The downside is that we can't always offer instant replies to questions, since inevitably life outside SSG (such as it is) will take us away from the keyboard.

Gregor



hadberz -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/8/2007 3:07:02 AM)

Welcome back, hope you had a nice holiday.[:)]

I was curious if there will be any new scenarios in the patch?



Blond_Knight -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/8/2007 4:12:42 AM)

z



Gregor_SSG -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/9/2007 8:48:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hadberz

Welcome back, hope you had a nice holiday.[:)]

I was curious if there will be any new scenarios in the patch?



The holiday was great, lots of history seen and enjoyed! There is no new scenario in the patch, they take quite a lot of work and we have concentrated instead on adding some enhancements and requested features to the game as well as fixing all the known bugs.

We're just about to test what we hope is the final installer now, so the patch won't be too much longer, but I can't give an exact date at this stage.

Gregor



Scott_WAR -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/9/2007 2:44:46 PM)

Lets hope the editor is fixed, or some type of randomness is added to the current scenarios......... or else for the majority of us the patch is useless. We all have finished playing the small amount of scenarios included with the games (a SHAMEFUL amount of scenarios for the price we paid) and need more to play. Fixing the bugs without adding any scenarios means we have nothing to play still aside from the same handfull of scenarios we have all gown tired of playing.

Regardless though it is good to see the patch is almost finished. Hopefully now you will start working on what is probably the most important thing for the long term future of this game,..... fixing the severe lack of scenarios.



Scott_WAR -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/9/2007 2:52:23 PM)

Deleted- meant to edit the above post, not make a new one.



RayWolfe -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/9/2007 4:59:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

or some type of randomness is added to the current scenarios.........


Have you actually played this game? If so, how do you make the above comment?
I agree, more scenarios would be nice and they will come, either from the community or as a supplemental from SSG.
The number of scenarios was known before purchase and, in fact, are the same scenarios that came with the original. The extras were supplied with Run Five and the upgraded game, Complete Carriers at War. There is nothing discracefull here.
Cheers
Ray



Scott_WAR -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/9/2007 5:21:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

or some type of randomness is added to the current scenarios.........


Have you actually played this game? If so, how do you make the above comment?
I agree, more scenarios would be nice and they will come, either from the community or as a supplemental from SSG.
The number of scenarios was known before purchase and, in fact, are the same scenarios that came with the original. The extras were supplied with Run Five and the upgraded game, Complete Carriers at War. There is nothing discracefull here.
Cheers
Ray



Yeah, I own it. I suggest you scroll down and read the forums a little. I am not going over the problems with the game yet again. Quite a few people have posted what the games problems are, specifically too few scenarios and the lack of replayability. All you have to do is read a little. Its not like there is a lot of activity here lately (wonder why?), so those posts shouldnt be hard to find.



RayWolfe -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/9/2007 6:32:42 PM)

Oh!
I didn't infer that you didn't own it. It's just that I'm surprised that someone who's played it was not aware of the randomness.
Oh well, it takes all sorts.
Have a nice day, as they say, and keep smiling.
Cheers
Ray

and by the way, I do read here and post sometimes when there's something important to say. [;)]



Joe D. -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/10/2007 1:37:59 AM)

First things first; I both understand and agree that bug fixes are the #1 priority, but I assume additional scenarios will eventually be coming via another patch.

So what historical things did you see in the US? Ideas for a new game?



wworld7 -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/10/2007 2:49:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

First things first; I both understand and agree that bug fixes are the #1 priority, but I assume additional scenarios will eventually be coming via another patch.

So what historical things did you see in the US? Ideas for a new game?


You know what happens when you "assume".

If we get anymore scenarios, great. But expecting them in a patch could lead to self-inflicted disappointment. And that is not good for anybody.



Gregor_SSG -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/10/2007 4:46:01 AM)

In one way I think its fantastic that people are asking for more scenarios, it shows that the really liked the game and are keen to keep playing. Nobody would be doing that for a bad game.

On the other hand, language, as it often does on the net, seems to be getting a little intemperate. I don't see how anything we have done merits the use of the word 'shameful'. The new CAW shipped with the same scenarios as the original game, it was great value then and great value now and nobody was mislead about the content that shipped with the game.

In one way, we are a victim of our success. The game ships with great replayability, due in great part to the WarRoom AI, which I still think is the best AI opponent in any wargame. Read the posts on the forum where the AI crushed veteran wargamers if you don't believe me. That doesn't usually happen.

For those of you who have the game, I invite you to take a look at the WarRoom editor. Making a WarRoom set for a scenario is not a simple task, it takes time to create and time to test.

Now we could have written a basic AI for this game which would have required only minimal effort on the part of the scenario creator. In order to achieve even a semblance of parity it would have cheated like crazy, as most AIs do, but even with the cheating it would have been a pale shadow of the WarRoom system, and good gamers would have blown it apart pretty quickly. However, it would have made scenario creation much quicker! We didn't do that and I don't seriously think that anyone wants us to turn into a creator of wargaming sausages.

So can I just say that SSG has a long history of supporting its games and listening to its users, but we are a small company and some things, usually the best things, take time.

Gregor






Joe D. -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/10/2007 2:44:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
First things first; I both understand and agree that bug fixes are the #1 priority, but I assume additional scenarios will eventually be coming via another patch ...

You know what happens when you "assume".
If we get anymore scenarios, great. But expecting them in a patch could lead to self-inflicted disappointment. And that is not good for anybody.


What exactly do you mean by "self-inflicted disapointment," and how is that going to happen w/a patch?

And if not a patch, how will we get any more scenarios from SSG? Are you expecting an add-on installment? If so, you'll be paying for it, and a number of players have already complained that they have paid enough.

I bought a boxed set and feel I've spent enough for now, but after investing in the stock market, I'm patient enough to wait and see if the new CaW interface becomes an investment, not just a game.



Scott_WAR -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/10/2007 4:11:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.


And if not a patch, how will we get any more scenarios from SSG? Are you expecting an add-on installment? If so, you'll be paying for it, and a number of players have already complained that they have paid enough.



If they try to charge us for scenarios that should have been included to begin with for the price we were charged, I think SSG will find itself on a lot of peoples list of companies to never buy from again.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

The new CAW shipped with the same scenarios as the original game, it was great value then and great value now



I keep hearing "The number of scenarios are the same as in the original release"

Video games have come a long way since the original CaW was released. Technolgy has improved dramatically, AI has improved, nearly all aspects of video gaming has improved, but this new release takes advantage of so few of those advancements. Honestly its only improvements are graphics, the interface, and multiplayer.
Graphics are not up to todays standards, not for a full priced game. Multiplayer is a joke because there are no scenarios even remotely balanced for multiplayer. The interface is one thing that was well improved, but an updated interface doesnt justify the price.

Simply put, if we are expected to pay full price for a game we expect that game to be up to the standards of other games charging full price. Comparitively speaking, this game is a budget title that should have cost roughly $19.99 or at the very most $29.99 and that would be pushing it. To release this and think we, the customers, are going to be happy to pay full price, goes a long way to explain why some SSG employees seem to be baffled as to why the customers are complaining. Value......... it was a great value then,... its not now, not at the same price as it was then. Not for the exact same game with a little make up added.




Igbe -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/10/2007 6:06:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.


And if not a patch, how will we get any more scenarios from SSG? Are you expecting an add-on installment? If so, you'll be paying for it, and a number of players have already complained that they have paid enough.



If they try to charge us for scenarios that should have been included to begin with for the price we were charged, I think SSG will find itself on a lot of peoples list of companies to never buy from again.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

The new CAW shipped with the same scenarios as the original game, it was great value then and great value now



I keep hearing "The number of scenarios are the same as in the original release"

Video games have come a long way since the original CaW was released. Technolgy has improved dramatically, AI has improved, nearly all aspects of video gaming has improved, but this new release takes advantage of so few of those advancements. Honestly its only improvements are graphics, the interface, and multiplayer.
Graphics are not up to todays standards, not for a full priced game. Multiplayer is a joke because there are no scenarios even remotely balanced for multiplayer. The interface is one thing that was well improved, but an updated interface doesnt justify the price.

Simply put, if we are expected to pay full price for a game we expect that game to be up to the standards of other games charging full price. Comparitively speaking, this game is a budget title that should have cost roughly $19.99 or at the very most $29.99 and that would be pushing it. To release this and think we, the customers, are going to be happy to pay full price, goes a long way to explain why some SSG employees seem to be baffled as to why the customers are complaining. Value......... it was a great value then,... its not now, not at the same price as it was then. Not for the exact same game with a little make up added.




Mostly a lurker and almost never a poster but I wanted to jump in and just say "Great Post".

This was my first purchase from Matrix Games and to be frank unless something changes very quickly on the CaW front, this will be my last purchase. What a great game, but waste of money due to limited scenarios. This is not a console game where 10 - 15 hours is the norm. CaW was billed as a WAR game, not many war games I have played have such a lack of content. I would not go as far and say the game is shameful. The pricing is shameful. I really don't care how many scenarios came with the original game vs. how many are in the current version. The fact of the matter is you can only play the same scenarios so many times before you are bored to death. An updated interface is not worth $49.95, period!

Gregor_SSG you wanted us to check out the war-room editor, you claim it is very hard. I have not checked it out, nor am I going to. I will say though that if the war-room editor is so hard, that's your problem and not the customers issue. Make a better editor and this would be a none issue because the community would have provided the scenarios you didn't.

I am going to take a guess that any new scenarios from your guys are going to cost and that will just add to the anger here. You wont get a dime out of me unless you add content that should of been in place to start with.

Lastly, how long does it take to test an installer? I will be dead before you release a patch for this game. Bottom line. Great game, poorly supported currently, shameful pricing.

Igbe



Hertston -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/10/2007 8:03:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Honestly its only improvements are graphics, the interface, and multiplayer.


I do acknowledge some of the points you guys are making, but really.. how many times have we heard "all we WANTED was improved graphics, UI and multiplayer!", or words to that effect, in relation to sequels and assorted re-releases?!!

SSG must think they can't win.



MarkShot -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/10/2007 8:57:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

The new CAW shipped with the same scenarios as the original game, it was great value then and great value ...



I very well understand the plight of small game development companies. However, I do not think trying to make a value proposition between the original game of 15 years ago and today is very relevant.

Assuming that I am wrong meaning that such a comparison is valid and meaningful, then it would also imply that those truly interested in the product should also measure this release against the still readily available $32.50 USD CCAW which runs flawlessly under a few different versions of DOSBOX (and even directly under XP itself) .... a bound printed manual is included along with something like 50 scenarios.

My point is ... I don't think you really want to make such a comparison. CAW-2007 value needs to be measured against the 2007 market and its expectations. The fact that the game and company have a proven track record is a wonderful legacy, but it is not itself sufficient to be the primary determinant of value or driver of sales.



TheHellPatrol -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/10/2007 9:26:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

My point is ... I don't think you really want to make such a comparison. CAW-2007 value needs to be measured against the 2007 market and its expectations. The fact that the game and company have a proven track record is a wonderful legacy, but it is not itself sufficient to be the primary determinant of value or driver of sales.
Indeed, a very realistic and poignant critique. In today's modern society everyone and everything is expected(demanded) to evolve[sm=terms.gif]



wworld7 -> RE: Patch ETA? (8/10/2007 11:05:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

What exactly do you mean by "self-inflicted disapointment," and how is that going to happen w/a patch?

And if not a patch, how will we get any more scenarios from SSG? Are you expecting an add-on installment? If so, you'll be paying for it, and a number of players have already complained that they have paid enough.


Joe,

"Self-inflicted disappointment" means it seems you you are building yourself up for a POSSIBLE let down if SSG does not do what you "assume" they will do.

I paid the same price as you for this game (actually this is 2nd CAW I have bought as I owned the first many years ago) . The number of scenarios was known by doing research ahead of time. Would I like more, yes. Do I feel cheated, no.




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