vs Flight Commander 2? (Full Version)

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HoustonAerosFan -> vs Flight Commander 2? (8/3/2007 3:09:05 AM)

I still play FC2. How do the two systems comapre?

I'm not into flight sims as they require too much focus/coordination on just flying the dang plane. I would really like to see a game like FC2 or Achtung Spitfire done right - no hexes or squares, better flight modeling (the WW2 aircraft are awfully juiced in Webster's system). and better AI - - and of course modding potential (not possible in FC2/AS).



Javakamp -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/3/2007 3:45:07 PM)

All comments are based on the Original Card / Board game. The PC version may vary.

The way Hornet Leader works is you are in command of a Squadron on FA-18s on a carrier in some trouble spot that has gone hot. You are tasked with missions and you have to select the planes and pilots to fly the mission and what their part of the mission will be. You have the Strike birds which are armed with mostly air to ground ordinance to hit the target. You also allocate planes to be iron hand and to suppress the enemy air defenses and escorts to protect against air to air threats.

The actual mission takes place on an abstracted “map” that is divided up into zones with target in the middle, and various defenses (air and ground) around the map. Your strike moves through the zones and encounter the defenses till they reach the target and attack it. Then they have to fly back out off the map and return to the carrier.

You get points based on your success or lack of at hitting the target and surviving the mission.

The process repeats for the next mission, but pilots and planes from the previous missions may need rest, maintenance, or repairs so they may not be available.

The heart of the game is in the planning and balancing the needs of the mission verses the available resources.

I hope this helps.



Temple -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/3/2007 7:33:02 PM)

Javakamp's description is pretty right on. FC2 is tactical with an operational interface whereas HL is pretty much at the operational level with an abstact tactical system.

I also have FC2 installed and still play. I'd *love* for someone to figure out how to mod the database [;)]. The battle and campaign editor is wonderfully easy to use, but we're still stuck with that 1994 database.



tombo -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/4/2007 3:57:06 AM)

On a similar topic, has anyone played HPS's War of Vietnam modern air war? It reminds me of a operational level but in pausable real-time. It not a flight sim.

I have the original HL box game. It was very well designed w/many variants and suspense. IF the PC version is exactly like it, I'll be worth getting.[:)]



glen55 -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/4/2007 11:46:40 PM)

Thanks for actually telling us what this game is about, something that Matrix is apparently afraid to do.

You know, I really LOVE Matrix as a games developer--they make my kind of games, and a lot of the best games around. But they have really gotten to be dishonest and deceptive IMO. They re-release repackaged old games without saying that is what they are on a fairly regular basis, and you couldn't tell from the marketing blurb on this game whether it was a flight sim or not:

". . . take to the skies and experience the tactical thrill of commanding some of the most elite aircraft in the world in historical/plausible missions with fantastically realistic equipment and enemies. . . . `I’m confident gamers will share my excitement as more details become available.' [as if they aren't already] . . . Once you reach your objective, you evaluate threats, and do what needs to be done to destroy the target!"

Based on reading that, it could be a flight sim, and in fact Matrix never comes out and tells you it's not a flight sim or does anything specific to describe game play. Why not? It looks like a game I would really be interested in--why doesn't Matrix recognize its true fan base and tell it like it is? You might fool somebody into buying a game they don't want every now and then, but those people are going to be unhappy. A specialty publisher like Matrix has to build its business on repeat sales.

This just isn't smart. Be honest, Matrix. Tell us what you're selling. Us grognards will be back buying more for decades to come if you'll just do that.



Terminus -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/5/2007 3:38:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: glen55

Thanks for actually telling us what this game is about, something that Matrix is apparently afraid to do.



That's quite the statement... I saw your similar diatribe over on The Wargamer. Maybe you should come in and admit that you were set straight over there...



Terminus -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/5/2007 3:39:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tombo

On a similar topic, has anyone played HPS's War of Vietnam modern air war? It reminds me of a operational level but in pausable real-time. It not a flight sim.



I've played it. Didn't like it much; too much sitting around, watching the little icons march over the screen (with the sound turned off; it's just ANNOYING).



StormcloudCreations -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/6/2007 6:40:11 PM)

I think Matrix is doing what they need to to bring in as diverse a crowd as possible, IMHO. I like the way the press release was written, and besides, this truly isn't squarely aimed at "grognards" anyway. Players of all experience and skill levels can enjoy HL really, and it's designed that way from the ground up, with built-in help, tooltips, streamlined rules, and the like. 3 minutes perusing the screenshots and details on ths site tells you if you'd be interested or not, I think. [:D]



Terminus -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/6/2007 7:32:09 PM)

I'm interested, definitely. Looking forward to this.[:)]



ETF -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/7/2007 2:40:03 AM)

Too bad there is no tactical element to the game...........I do sure love FC2 though. Still have it and play the odd time. It was a classic no doubt!



Texashawk -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/8/2007 12:58:50 AM)

It's kind of sad there isn't more discussion on this game. I have the VASSAL version, and I absolutely love it. This seems like a perfect audience of people to enjoy this game... perhaps they don't yet understand what it's all about??



buffewo -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/8/2007 2:26:09 AM)

How will this compare to the VASSAL version??




HoustonAerosFan -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/8/2007 6:22:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Temple

I also have FC2 installed and still play. I'd *love* for someone to figure out how to mod the database [;)]. The battle and campaign editor is wonderfully easy to use, but we're still stuck with that 1994 database.



That and has anyone figured out how to keep AI aircraft from turning tight circles until they contact an enemy aircraft? (Makes it too hard to sneek up on someone [:D] )



Dan Verssen -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/8/2007 10:33:21 PM)

buffewo,

Hornet Leader-PC is a full computer game so it handles all the rules and and events for you. In the Vassal version, you have to know how to play the game, and play it properly.

-Dan Verssen
www.dvg.com



buffewo -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/9/2007 2:02:38 AM)

Thanks for the reply Dan. I assume then that the enemy responses will be in accord with same rules as the VASSAL module. In other words, no additional Computer type AI will be added.



Rebel Yell -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/9/2007 5:48:02 AM)

Enjoyed the cardboard version of this many years ago and a PC version looks like just the thing for office entertainment. 

One thing I was wondering, though.  It says no editor.  I assume this means that you won't be able to create your own campaigns or pilots, etc?



JD Walter -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/9/2007 6:50:52 PM)

quote:

I think Matrix is doing what they need to to bring in as diverse a crowd as possible, IMHO. I like the way the press release was written, and besides, this truly isn't squarely aimed at "grognards" anyway. Players of all experience and skill levels can enjoy HL really, and it's designed that way from the ground up, with built-in help, tooltips, streamlined rules, and the like. 3 minutes perusing the screenshots and details on ths site tells you if you'd be interested or not, I think.
- Derek


I agree, Derek. The write-up interested me and certainly got my attention.

HL was one of GMT's most popular boardgames. Anyone familiar with it would understand the "You Are There" approach taken in the write-up. I thought it was well-done for sparking the imagination, especially for younger gamers. I think this version will make a great introduction to the PC wargaming hobby.

The addition of the tooltips, streamlined procedures, etc. also are a great idea for the PC version.


quote:

Hornet Leader-PC is a full computer game so it handles all the rules and and events for you. In the Vassal version, you have to know how to play the game, and play it properly.
- Dan


I believe what Dan is saying here is, that PC HL will have a fully automated AI which will implement the player's orders and calculate its own moves. I.E., you will have the ability to play it solitaire against the computer. (In contradistinction to the VASSAL implementation, which is an assist for playing the game electronically with another human opponent.)

Is this correct, Dan? Thx![:)]



Dan Verssen -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/9/2007 10:58:14 PM)

Def Zep,

You're right. I like your wording much better.  [:)]



EagleMountainDK -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/11/2007 1:13:54 AM)

How close will the PC version be to the boardgame? I still remembers time well spent with Hornet Leader and "Thunderbolt Apache Leader" a long time ago. I still have the board games [:)]



StormcloudCreations -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (8/11/2007 10:20:03 AM)

The PC version will be fairly faithful to the board and Vassal versions of the game (a few events streamlined for the PC version). Rules and sequence of gameplay will stay pretty much the same. If you've played HL2, you should be able to dive right in. :)



PDiFolco -> RE: vs Flight Commander 2? (9/5/2007 4:32:52 PM)

I still play FC2 from time to time - this wonderful game from '94 plays on XP and at *any* screen res... [8D]
No way to really mod the "database", everything is in the executable and BFC stopped all support a long time ago. I still have SPI's AirWar boardgame with its '84 database also [8|]
Back to HL , it's much more abstracted and simple to play than FC2 (which tracks every missile, throttle, altitude ...).
I have the Vassal version, but I'm a lazy guy having difficulty to apply the rules and will prefer the "full" version [:D].



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