Shokaku at Santa Cruz

Shokaku at Santa Cruz (Full Version)

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Miller -> Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/9/2007 3:39:06 PM)
Is it true she took 6 1000lb bomb hits during this battle? If so maybe some IJN damage control parties and ships were better organised and protected than previously thought?

Terminus -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/9/2007 4:02:53 PM)
Or maybe they were REALLY, REALLY lucky... EDIT: The sources I could find mention 4-6 bomb hits, of unknown weight. Could be 500-pounders, could be 1000-pounders...

Terminus -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/9/2007 4:19:13 PM)
It really is a crap shoot... Remember that the Akagi was hit by exactly ONE bomb at Midway, and that was enough (along with two close misses) to bring her down.

Speedysteve -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/9/2007 4:45:10 PM)
I think Shokaku class performed better in most senses as a ship compared to other IJN CV class

Apollo11 -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/9/2007 4:48:40 PM)
Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus It really is a crap shoot... Remember that the Akagi was hit by exactly ONE bomb at Midway, and that was enough (along with two close misses) to bring her down. It was really bad luck for Japanese you know... [8D] Leo "Apollo11"

Mike Solli -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/9/2007 4:50:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Apollo11 Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus It really is a crap shoot... Remember that the Akagi was hit by exactly ONE bomb at Midway, and that was enough (along with two close misses) to bring her down. It was really bad luck for Japanese you know... [8D] Leo "Apollo11" It also kind of sucked that the flight deck was full of fueled and loaded planes, along with a bunch of bombs laying around (when the TBs were reloaded with torpedoes).

Apollo11 -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/9/2007 4:53:42 PM)
Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: Mike Solli quote: ORIGINAL: Apollo11 quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus It really is a crap shoot... Remember that the Akagi was hit by exactly ONE bomb at Midway, and that was enough (along with two close misses) to bring her down. It was really bad luck for Japanese you know... [8D] It also kind of sucked that the flight deck was full of fueled and loaded planes, along with a bunch of bombs laying around (when the TBs were reloaded with torpedoes). I think you mean hangar deck - the flight decks of all 4 Japanese carriers at Midway were empty (theye were only doing CAP rotations)... Leo "Apollo11"

Mike Solli -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/9/2007 4:59:10 PM)
You're right, Leo. I stand corrected.

spence -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/9/2007 5:11:12 PM)
The enclosed hangar decks of the IJN CVs were a tremendous liability according to "Shattered Sword". The Shokakus did seem to be more able to sustain damage than the other carriers though.

Feinder -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/9/2007 5:23:17 PM)
I think crew experience and "The Darwinian School of Carrier Operations" (with campuses at Coral Sea and Midway), probably contributed as well. -F-

Mike Scholl -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/9/2007 6:20:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miller Is it true she took 6 1000lb bomb hits during this battle? If so maybe some IJN damage control parties and ships were better organised and protected than previously thought? The Shokaku's were the newest and best of the Japanese pre-War CV's, designed after they had had some actual experiance in carrier operations. It stands to reason you can assume that their designs were more advanced and better laid out than their predecessors. Also, a great deal depends on exactly WHERE the bombs hit, and how far and into what spaces the penetrated before detonating. Given the way CV's are built, a bomb could hit the flght deck, penetrate it, and come out OUTSIDE the ships hull. Also what type of bombs and fuzes will make a lot of difference. How far did the bombs penetrate? You can blow the flight deck completely off a CV and not damage hull or machinery integrity unless you start massive fires. You really need a lot more detail to figure out what happened here.

Tiornu -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/10/2007 1:47:21 AM)
If the damage does not penetrate into the vitals, the only realistic hope for destroying the carrier is to start a fire. The bombs, I presume, were high-explosive without especially long delays, so they did their job of wrecking the target as an aviation platform. Since Shokaku had no planes aboard and all her aviation systems were "offline," she was not especially combustible. In her famous episode, Illustrious was hit by AP bombs, but the fuze delays did not allow a very deep penetration. Her famous flight deck armor did her no good whatsoever, but the armored hangar deck may have been important in localizing damage.

MkXIV -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/10/2007 2:54:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus Or maybe they were REALLY, REALLY lucky... EDIT: The sources I could find mention 4-6 bomb hits, of unknown weight. Could be 500-pounders, could be 1000-pounders... I would have to agree with T, pretty good chance they were not all half tonners.

Terminus -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/10/2007 3:21:24 AM)
Like Tiornu noted, bomb types and fuze settings would also play a huge part, along with the lack of combustibles on board.

Feinder -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/10/2007 3:25:50 AM)
From the action reports from Enterprise, she dropped an equal number of 500# and 1000# bombs during the action at Santa Cruz. I just breeze thru, it might be that it was the Hornet's VS/VBs that hit Shok. But Ent dropped equal numbes of 500# and 1000# bombs. So excellent reading... Enterprise logs from just about every action. -F-

Terminus -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/10/2007 3:30:30 AM)
Wow! Cool site, Feinder... Thanks for posting the link![&o]

rogueusmc -> RE: Shokaku at Santa Cruz (8/10/2007 6:17:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Feinder I think crew experience and "The Darwinian School of Carrier Operations" (with campuses at Coral Sea and Midway), probably contributed as well. -F- I'm gonna save that...[:D]

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