RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (Full Version)

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ColinWright -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/1/2008 8:52:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Legun


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
You're welcome to have a go, but perhaps fights like the one Curtis and I are waging over volume-based supply are more useful. They're not especially pleasant, but at least they do lay out some of the arguments pro and con for any given change. A poll can't do that.


There is a problem. This way important, but not doubtful wishes are lost. Nobody is waging - the problem isn't critical. I don't like the approach taken literally.


That's true. However, hopefully whoever makes the choices at least has the ability to pull out and implement the ideas that are easy to program and only have an up side.




cymloveselva -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/1/2008 9:01:06 AM)

Just wonder if I can add another:
what's the specialty/characteristics about each 128 unit icons available in TOAW3...
Put them inside Manual would be best[>:]




ColinWright -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/1/2008 9:10:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cymloveselva

Just wonder if I can add another:
what's the specialty/characteristics about each 128 unit icons available in TOAW3...
Put them inside Manual would be best[>:]


A lot of them don't do anything -- but you're right. If would be good if there was a list of the ones that do actually provide some special capability and what that capability is.

To take the question backwards, as far as I know, the following icons don't do anything. Engineers of all types, truck and transport icons, naval aviation as opposed to ordinary aviation, military police, anti-aircraft. In all these cases, the capability inheres in the equipment assigned, not the icon. Don't know for sure about cavalry, armor, recon -- but I'll put my money on it just being the equipment that gives the effect.

Icons that will do something in and of themselves include all HQ and artillery icons, including 'infantry artillery.' Airborne, glider, etc. Guerrilla. Mountain. Supply.

Somebody can probably improve on this list -- but that's what comes to mind.




cymloveselva -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/1/2008 9:29:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

quote:

ORIGINAL: cymloveselva

Just wonder if I can add another:
what's the specialty/characteristics about each 128 unit icons available in TOAW3...
Put them inside Manual would be best[>:]


A lot of them don't do anything -- but you're right. If would be good if there was a list of the ones that do actually provide some special capability and what that capability is.

To take the question backwards, as far as I know, the following icons don't do anything. Engineers of all types, truck and transport icons, naval aviation as opposed to ordinary aviation, military police, anti-aircraft. In all these cases, the capability inheres in the equipment assigned, not the icon. Don't know for sure about cavalry, armor, recon -- but I'll put my money on it just being the equipment that gives the effect.

Icons that will do something in and of themselves include all HQ and artillery icons, including 'infantry artillery.' Airborne, glider, etc. Guerrilla. Mountain. Supply.

Somebody can probably improve on this list -- but that's what comes to mind.



[8|] What happen if Tanks assigned into Carrier Icon...? I wonder...[8|]

[image]local://upfiles/28073/826613C639914C40B9AF4A0219485ED2.gif[/image]




JAMiAM -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/1/2008 11:16:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cymloveselva

Just wonder if I can add another:
what's the specialty/characteristics about each 128 unit icons available in TOAW3...
Put them inside Manual would be best[>:]

Reading the manual, where they already are put, would be even better...[;)]

Look at the icons and superscripts for them in section 16.1 of the manual. The key for the superscripts is at the end of that long list of icons, with a brief description of their special properties. See section 16.1.1.




a white rabbit -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/1/2008 12:45:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Legun


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

As with my other wishes, I wouldn't be surprised if this is already on there, but I really think there should be separate 'truck' units that can pick up and carry units.

OPART tends to assume either that a unit has organic transportation, or that it has no access to trucks at all. Actually, my readings are convincing me that neither one was the norm (pun not intended).

Italians, Britons, Germans, Japanese -- all spent most of the war without enough trucks to haul all of their infantry all the time. Rather, there were so many trucks, and these could be shifted around to move this or that unit to some position where it would thereafter be limited to shank's mare. The trucks, meanwhile, would have gone off to perform some other function.

This was the norm -- far more than the feast or famine TOAW requires. Since the game's focus really is on World War Two, shouldn't it at least allow the possibility of reproducing this situation. Truck units that can provide a long distance strategic movement capability to otherwise foot-bound infantry?


You could remember - we discussed the problem on TDG. There are 3 different ways: present-rail-like trucks (6.9), present-aircraft-carrier-like transport units (6.13) and one of effects of composite units 4.8.


..railway-conversions are very useful, but only if you don't actually have a railway that's an essential part of the scen..




ColinWright -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/1/2008 7:26:54 PM)

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ColinWright -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/4/2008 8:22:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Legun


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

As with my other wishes, I wouldn't be surprised if this is already on there, but I really think there should be separate 'truck' units that can pick up and carry units.

OPART tends to assume either that a unit has organic transportation, or that it has no access to trucks at all. Actually, my readings are convincing me that neither one was the norm (pun not intended).

Italians, Britons, Germans, Japanese -- all spent most of the war without enough trucks to haul all of their infantry all the time. Rather, there were so many trucks, and these could be shifted around to move this or that unit to some position where it would thereafter be limited to shank's mare. The trucks, meanwhile, would have gone off to perform some other function.

This was the norm -- far more than the feast or famine TOAW requires. Since the game's focus really is on World War Two, shouldn't it at least allow the possibility of reproducing this situation. Truck units that can provide a long distance strategic movement capability to otherwise foot-bound infantry?


You could remember - we discussed the problem on TDG. There are 3 different ways: present-rail-like trucks (6.9), present-aircraft-carrier-like transport units (6.13) and one of effects of composite units 4.8.


If you merely mean that the idea is already on the wish list, I refer you to my original post: '...I'm sure most of the above is already in the list...'

I'll note that composite units would actually let units use their trucks precisely as I tend to object to seeing them used. The infantry become panzergrenadiers. Infantry almost universally could ride in trucks -- but ordinarily didn't use them for tactical movement. The 2/5 Borsets may well have arrived to join the Amiens attack of 25 August 1918 on trucks -- I'm quite certain they didn't use them to exploit their success.

This isn't to condemn the idea of composite units in general. It's merely that they wouldn't produce what I was looking for. Actually, they would work when the opposite of the effect I am discussing was desired -- when you wanted to have the ability to separate infantry that normally fought as panzergrenadiers/motor infantry from their trucks.










Legun -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/4/2008 9:15:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
I'll note that composite units would actually let units use their trucks precisely as I tend to object to seeing them used. The infantry become panzergrenadiers. Infantry almost universally could ride in trucks -- but ordinarily didn't use them for tactical movement. The 2/5 Borsets may well have arrived to join the Amiens attack of 25 August 1918 on trucks -- I'm quite certain they didn't use them to exploit their success.


This shouldn't be as big problem as you mention. Anyway - you find other important problem - calculation of proficiency. If the program could remember original prof of grouped unit, and use recalculated prof of composite unit only as temporary parameter, the problem is solved. You could just set proficiency of independent British or Italian truck unit as 1%. This way, your 70% infantry could try to be panzergrenadier, but it reduces it's battle strength dramatically. Let define your truck unit this way, that there is 50 trucks and 175 civilian group. You have 225 pieces of equipment with prof of 1% for each 25 infantry squad with prof of 70%. Temporary prof of such unit could be about 7% - just enough to discourage for trying mobile warfare.




Trick37_MatrixForum -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/4/2008 12:37:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Legun

quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
I'll note that composite units would actually let units use their trucks precisely as I tend to object to seeing them used. The infantry become panzergrenadiers. Infantry almost universally could ride in trucks -- but ordinarily didn't use them for tactical movement. The 2/5 Borsets may well have arrived to join the Amiens attack of 25 August 1918 on trucks -- I'm quite certain they didn't use them to exploit their success.


This shouldn't be as big problem as you mention. Anyway - you find other important problem - calculation of proficiency. If the program could remember original prof of grouped unit, and use recalculated prof of composite unit only as temporary parameter, the problem is solved. You could just set proficiency of independent British or Italian truck unit as 1%. This way, your 70% infantry could try to be panzergrenadier, but it reduces it's battle strength dramatically. Let define your truck unit this way, that there is 50 trucks and 175 civilian group. You have 225 pieces of equipment with prof of 1% for each 25 infantry squad with prof of 70%. Temporary prof of such unit could be about 7% - just enough to discourage for trying mobile warfare.



Forgive me, as I haven't been keeping up with this threat much, but there's something on this particular topic that I'd like to comment on.

In regards to what I highlighted above, I know from reading the "War Diaries" (which were the former "Intel Reports") of my great-grandfather's units in France during WW1 (the Tyneside Scottish and the Queen's Westminster Rifles) that they always used trucks or trains to move them long distances into and out of the line. But, once they got close to the line (about a couple of miles out), then debarked them and moved forward on foot.

I don't think that there were "motorized" attacks (using trucks for actual combat purposes) in WW1 at all (this, of course, doesn't count the use of tanks as that's different). In fact, the first recorded "motorized" attack used was when then-2LT George S. Patton, Jr used four trucks/vehicles to make a motorized attack on a small village that some of Pancho Villa's men were using to hide out in (during our incursion into Mexico in 1916 to chase him away from Texas and other border states and territories.....one can say that this was our second war with Mexico).

Hmmmm.....that would be a good scenario to make up---General Pershing's pursuit of Pancho Villa in Mexico. Too bad I don't have the time for it. :(




ColinWright -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/4/2008 8:46:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Legun

quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
I'll note that composite units would actually let units use their trucks precisely as I tend to object to seeing them used. The infantry become panzergrenadiers. Infantry almost universally could ride in trucks -- but ordinarily didn't use them for tactical movement. The 2/5 Borsets may well have arrived to join the Amiens attack of 25 August 1918 on trucks -- I'm quite certain they didn't use them to exploit their success.


This shouldn't be as big problem as you mention...


It's not really a problem at all. It's just that one perfectly good idea -- composite units -- is not really the most satisfactory realization of another perfectly good idea -- separate transport units.

It's like I'm trying to sell you my moving van as a motor home for your family vacation. Well, you keep wanting a Winnebago. It's not that there's anything wrong with my moving van -- it's a fine moving van. It's just that it's not really what you want.




ColinWright -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/10/2008 11:30:17 AM)

Here's another idea which may already be in the wish list: captured equipment.

It wouldn't really be a vital change, but forces do often put captured equipment to use -- and quite quickly.

I'm working on Operation Exporter -- the Commonwealth invasion of French Syria -- at the moment. The Australians first came into contact with Vichy armor in serious quantity on 11 June. By 20 June, the first of their 'Cavalry' squadrons already had four R-35's in it, and at least two other of the six squadrons total had followed suit by the time the campaign ended on 11 July.

There are other, larger scale examples: the British had equipped a whole armored brigade with recently captured Italian M11/41's by March 1941, and of course the Germans made prompt and heavy use of captured French and Soviet artillery.

One could simply have the usual portions of any 'lost' equipment dumped in the pool for both sides. Designers could then create an ability to acquire such equipment simply by creating slots for it. For example, in Exporter, the Australian cavalry Squadrons all have '0/3 35R' in their equipment list -- although naturally I have to resort to more cumbersome devices than the one I am suggesting to get them their R-35's.

As a note, obviously infantry, MG's, etc should be excluded from this treatment. The simplest way I can see would be to exclude all equipment that isn't tagged as belonging to a particular nationality. The tagged equipment is pretty much the artillery and armor that we're talking about -- and of course designers could keep B-17's out of the Luftwaffe simply by refraining from giving Luftwaffe units slots for B-17's.




Curtis Lemay -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/10/2008 5:48:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

Here's another idea which may already be in the wish list: captured equipment. ...


Item 3.15




rhinobones -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/10/2008 6:40:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
One could simply have the usual portions of any 'lost' equipment dumped in the pool for both sides.


Would suggest that lost equipment and disabled equipment only be captured if at the end of the turn the hex is owned by the side doing the capturing. Otherwise the equipment should go to the originator's equipment pool.

Regards, RhinoBones




Levelworm -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/11/2008 7:15:52 PM)

Could I suggest seperate 'News Summary' for two sides?




ColinWright -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/11/2008 7:33:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Levelworm

Could I suggest seperate 'News Summary' for two sides?


Yeah. If that's not already in the list it should be.




Curtis Lemay -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/12/2008 7:08:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright


quote:

ORIGINAL: Levelworm

Could I suggest seperate 'News Summary' for two sides?


Yeah. If that's not already in the list it should be.



Item 11.5




Sker -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/12/2008 8:42:28 PM)

I would like to see something to make some of my unit have a priority when the replacement are assigned. For example if one of my infantry division in a key point of my offensive is about to running out of men or equipment I would like to send them a larger part of the avaible replacements than another unit who is not in a such important place.
Maybe just add a menu with three levels of priority: something like high, normal and low.




Sker -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/12/2008 8:43:34 PM)

I would like to see something to make some of my unit have a priority when the replacement are assigned. For example if one of my infantry division in a key point of my offensive is about to running out of men or equipment I would like to send them a larger part of the avaible replacements than another unit who is not in a such important place.
Maybe just add a menu with three levels of priority: something like high, normal and low.




Telumar -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/12/2008 9:24:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sker

I would like to see something to make some of my unit have a priority when the replacement are assigned. For example if one of my infantry division in a key point of my offensive is about to running out of men or equipment I would like to send them a larger part of the avaible replacements than another unit who is not in a such important place.
Maybe just add a menu with three levels of priority: something like high, normal and low.


I second that. Maybe together with a hierarchical OOB a player could channel the flow of replacements al gusto. On the other this could turn into excessive micromanagement in bigger scenarios like Dno, EA, FitE, so it better should be kept simple.

In the scenario editor a designer already has the possibility to set replacement prorities for each individual unit, but once set it can't be changed anymore during play. I'd like to see replacement priorities that can be changed by events.




ColinWright -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/12/2008 11:58:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sker

I would like to see something to make some of my unit have a priority when the replacement are assigned. For example if one of my infantry division in a key point of my offensive is about to running out of men or equipment I would like to send them a larger part of the avaible replacements than another unit who is not in a such important place.
Maybe just add a menu with three levels of priority: something like high, normal and low.


I second that. Maybe together with a hierarchical OOB a player could channel the flow of replacements al gusto. On the other this could turn into excessive micromanagement in bigger scenarios like Dno, EA, FitE, so it better should be kept simple.

In the scenario editor a designer already has the possibility to set replacement prorities for each individual unit, but once set it can't be changed anymore during play. I'd like to see replacement priorities that can be changed by events.



Note that the ability to do this in reality is limited; or to be more precise, the results can be less than happy.

In Operation Mars, Zhukov started out by throwing his assault divisions against Model's defenses -- made life pretty hairy for the Germans for a while, but didn't get that decisive breakthrough.

Then he did just what is advocated here: filled up his decimated formations with fresh recruits and had another go.

The results were disastrous. The divisions simply fell apart under fire. To recover properly, a unit that has suffered heavy losses needs some time -- more or less what the current system insists on.

I could see some limited ability to adjust priorities -- but a system that lets you just take that division that is currently at 50% strength and force-feed it back up to a 100% within a couple of turns...that's often precisely what can't be done.




Telumar -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/13/2008 12:20:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright



Note that the ability to do this in reality is limited; or to be more precise, the results can be less than happy.

In Operation Mars, Zhukov started out by throwing his assault divisions against Model's defenses -- made life pretty hairy for the Germans for a while, but didn't get that decisive breakthrough.

Then he did just what is advocated here: filled up his decimated formations with fresh recruits and had another go.


First of all, the thing that is advocated here is: "a player could channel the flow of replacements al gusto" What one does with this feature and what the system should allow is another thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

The results were disastrous. The divisions simply fell apart under fire. To recover properly, a unit that has suffered heavy losses needs some time -- more or less what the current system insists on.

I could see some limited ability to adjust priorities -- but a system that lets you just take that division that is currently at 50% strength and force-feed it back up to a 100% within a couple of turns...that's often precisely what can't be done.



I never said anything about force-feeding a unit - that's your interpretation about what i might have had in mind. But this is not what i had in mind. The proposed feature could be used for things like "let's have this sPzAbt receive the next 10 rounds' production of the Tiger II" or a player could decide that 50% of infantry type replacements go to Heeresgruppe Süd while Heeresgruppen Nord and Mitte only receive 25% each. Somehing along these lines.

Btw, with the current system veteran units lose their veteran status if they receive a lot of fresh replacements.




ColinWright -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/13/2008 1:00:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright



Note that the ability to do this in reality is limited; or to be more precise, the results can be less than happy.

In Operation Mars, Zhukov started out by throwing his assault divisions against Model's defenses -- made life pretty hairy for the Germans for a while, but didn't get that decisive breakthrough.

Then he did just what is advocated here: filled up his decimated formations with fresh recruits and had another go.


First of all, the thing that is advocated here is: "a player could channel the flow of replacements al gusto" What one does with this feature and what the system should allow is another thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

The results were disastrous. The divisions simply fell apart under fire. To recover properly, a unit that has suffered heavy losses needs some time -- more or less what the current system insists on.

I could see some limited ability to adjust priorities -- but a system that lets you just take that division that is currently at 50% strength and force-feed it back up to a 100% within a couple of turns...that's often precisely what can't be done.



I never said anything about force-feeding a unit - that's your interpretation about what i might have had in mind. But this is not what i had in mind. The proposed feature could be used for things like "let's have this sPzAbt receive the next 10 rounds' production of the Tiger II" or a player could decide that 50% of infantry type replacements go to Heeresgruppe Süd while Heeresgruppen Nord and Mitte only receive 25% each. Somehing along these lines.

Btw, with the current system veteran units lose their veteran status if they receive a lot of fresh replacements.



All right then.

My primary concerns would be that players not acquire the ability to instantly refill units -- or that if they do, the possible consequences for the unit's proficiency and readiness should be severe. I'd also (as always) prefer that any such ability be an editable value.

OPART actually has a history of changes that sounded good but proved to have unintended (and undesirable) consequences. There was the 'jeeps versus Tigers' thing that led to unkillable tanks, then there was 'fixing the AA bug' which produced killer Bofors, instant death to any attacking aircraft, and then there was 'keeping low MP units from causing early turn-ending' which produced the effective death of early turn-ending in at least the scenario I'm working on.

So generally, if I foresee some change producing possibly unpleasant side-effects, I'll point the possible side-effects out -- and I think it's a good idea if I do. Not that the change shouldn't be carried out anyway -- but at least we should try to anticipate the possible pitfalls.




Legun -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/13/2008 3:31:20 PM)

The changable replacement priorities should be connected with two points already on the list:
- "replacement proficiency" defined by designer (for CESSION purposes there should be option "equal to receiving unit's proficiency", set as default setting), as loosing veteran status isn't important handicap;
- a "training" deployment, increasing an unit's proficiency (there could be next limit - "max prof available by training" - probably).




Curtis Lemay -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/13/2008 6:08:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sker

I would like to see something to make some of my unit have a priority when the replacement are assigned. For example if one of my infantry division in a key point of my offensive is about to running out of men or equipment I would like to send them a larger part of the avaible replacements than another unit who is not in a such important place.
Maybe just add a menu with three levels of priority: something like high, normal and low.


Item 3.6




ColinWright -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/15/2008 11:05:46 AM)

Another one...

As some of us may recall, one of Norm's original intentions was that the game could model equipment transitions: you could have a battalion with 56/56 Pz IV's and 0/56 Panthers and it would evolve over time to become a battalion of 0/56 Mk IV's and 56/56 Panthers.

Of course, the obvious problem -- and one that designers encountered -- is that the unit had a nasty ability to evolve into an uber-battalion with 56/56 Mk IV's and 56/56 Panthers.

What if it was possible to assign an absolute cap to the number of pieces of equipment a unit could receive? This doesn't seem too hard -- and it would make it possible to realize the original idea fairly well -- whatever equipment type began to become more plentiful in the pool would tend to fill out the unit as it suffered losses and received replacements over time.

Aside from the obvious use of modeling equipment transitions, this would make it very easy to model declining morale in forces such as the 1918 German army or improving tactical skill in forces such as the Red Army of 1941-43. One would just need to create various rifle squads, such as ones that didn't have the active defender box checked, or did have it checked, or whatever, and allow history to take its course. Units that experienced losses and received replacements could radically change their combat characteristics -- far more than the current changes in proficiency permit.

For example.

A German 'stosstruppen' battalion of early 1918 might look like this:

36/36 'assault recon' squads.

0/36 'replacement light rifle squads.' These would be 'light rifle squads' with 'active defender' left unchecked.

9/9 5 cm mortars.

A 'total equipment cap' of 45.


I'm just winging it here as to organization, and I only picked a unit as small as a battalion to simplify the illustration, so don't bug me about that. Point is that no 'assault recon' squads would appear in the pool. Plenty of 'replacement light rifle' squads' would, though. So after one heavy assault and a bit of exploitation followed by some rest, it might look like this:

19/36 'assault recon' squads.

17/36 'replacement light rifle squads.'

9/9 5 cm mortars.

45 total pieces of equipment


Then after mounting another offensive or staving off an Allied offensive, it might look more like this:

5/36 'assault recon' squads.

32/36 'replacement light rifle squads.'

8/9 5 cm mortars.

45 total pieces of equipment


As the unit engaged in combat, its proficiency would naturally rise slightly. But -- particularly if it sustained heavy losses -- its combat ability would decline. It would fairly early on become noticeably less effective in the attack, and given enough time and enough bleeding, would finally become very prone to retreat even if firmly poked. This would nicely simulate, for example, what happened to the German Army over the Summer and Fall of 1918, or -- if the process was reversed -- what happened to the American army in Korea over the Summer and Fall of 1950.




Karri -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/15/2008 11:19:59 AM)

That is a good idea but there's one VERY big problem. That is once the unit loses 'rare/expensive' pieces of equipment they will be replaced with the cheaper/more numerous equipment.

In your example I suspect there would be a lot of cases where the unit would have no mortars. But the problem really would be in bigger units with lot's of different equipment. Or rather with mixed equipment. This would create a case where tanks, artillery etc are replaced by rifle squads.




Legun -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/15/2008 11:23:03 AM)

3.9. True unit equipment upgrades.
3.9.1. Clicking on an equipment item in unit’s menu allows player to change the equipment for other (assigned is 0, old equipment goes to pool). New equipment takes the slot of the old equipment in the unit’s TO&E, with the same authorized quantity. Unit must be supplied, unmoved, & not in enemy ZOC. Unit gets a penalty - proficiency, readiness or supply reduction.
3.9.2.The possibility is set by designer in a special window “equipment transition sequences” – each type of used equipment can have selected one type of upgraded equipment. Advanced: It’s defined for each of units separately.




ColinWright -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/15/2008 11:32:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

That is a good idea but there's one VERY big problem. That is once the unit loses 'rare/expensive' pieces of equipment they will be replaced with the cheaper/more numerous equipment.

In your example I suspect there would be a lot of cases where the unit would have no mortars. But the problem really would be in bigger units with lot's of different equipment. Or rather with mixed equipment. This would create a case where tanks, artillery etc are replaced by rifle squads.



? Just have a lot of mortars in the pool. Having all their units up to snuff on mortars all the time won't save the Germans.

As to 'cases where tanks, artillery, etc are replaced by rifle squads' -- have you ever looked at a late-war German 'Panzer Army'? Or checked out the artillery-units-fighting-as-infantry on Crete?

I'll grant the solution isn't perfect. I even would be the last one to argue that its universally useful. However, it does elevate a good idea of Norm's that up until now has been a largely useless noble intention to something that would be susceptible to practical use.

To take the cases I mentioned -- well, I just wouldn't attempt to apply the idea to Panzer divisions. Let things go on as they have until now. But if I was dealing with Panzer regiments -- and wanted them to be able to re-equip from Mk II's and short-barrel Mk III's to long-barrel Mk III's -- well, it should work rather nicely.




Karri -> RE: Comprehensive Wishlist (2/15/2008 12:09:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright



? Just have a lot of mortars in the pool. Having all their units up to snuff on mortars all the time won't save the Germans.


ah, but that is not the problem. The problem is that there wouldn't be a lot of mortar in the pool, but rather lot's of other equipment. This would eventually create an unit that is pretty much everything the historical unit wasn't. The more quipment the more likely this is to happen. And the thing is, it wouldn't solve the main problem.

quote:


As to 'cases where tanks, artillery, etc are replaced by rifle squads' -- have you ever looked at a late-war German 'Panzer Army'? Or checked out the artillery-units-fighting-as-infantry on Crete?


I don't think you wholly undrestand the problem.

Say we have the following unit
20/20 rifle squads
0/20 light rifle squads
5/5 tank
max 25 equipment

Then you have replacements of
20 rifle squads a turn
40 light rifle squads a turn
and 1 tank a turn.

What happens is that the tanks will be replaced by infantry. Even if there are tanks available in the inventory, this is simply caused by there being far more infantry available as reinforcements. It has to do with the game system of allocating replacement equipment. So you lose a tank and the 'opening' is more likely to be filled with a light rifle squad than a tank.

quote:


I'll grant the solution isn't perfect. I even would be the last one to argue that its universally useful. However, it does elevate a good idea of Norm's that up until now has been a largely useless noble intention to something that would be susceptible to practical use.

To take the cases I mentioned -- well, I just wouldn't attempt to apply the idea to Panzer divisions. Let things go on as they have until now. But if I was dealing with Panzer regiments -- and wanted them to be able to re-equip from Mk II's and short-barrel Mk III's to long-barrel Mk III's -- well, it should work rather nicely.



I agree it's a good idea. Although Legun's idea would be even better....well actually I'd combine the two. But changes of this magnitude I suspect are a thing for TOAW IV.




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