Berlin falls without a fight - huge design flaw (Full Version)

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Irish army63 -> Berlin falls without a fight - huge design flaw (8/15/2007 12:42:19 AM)

I was playing as the allies. The USSR was in real trouble so I risked an invasion of France in July 1942. The idea was to take some of the pressure off Russia. This didn't happen. Instead I met very little resistance and took Berlin in no time at all. This caused Germany to surrender even though the German army was still huge and might have defeated me once Russia was dealt with.

The fact that the computer made no attempt to defend Germany is a major design flaw. Has a patch been issued to fix this does anyone know?

Thanks.



lomyrin -> RE: Berlin falls without a fight - huge design flaw (8/15/2007 1:31:57 AM)

With the Axis at a plus 1 advantage I also came across the same situation, Berlin fell in January 44 with the Germans nearing Perm.

Lars



Fred98 -> RE: Berlin falls without a fight - huge design flaw (8/15/2007 1:36:53 AM)

A human oppponent is the best opponent in any game.

-



targul -> RE: Berlin falls without a fight - huge design flaw (8/15/2007 1:37:49 AM)

This has been told by members a few times.  Since they are still working on the AI I suspect they will take up the issue at that time.

Personnally I find the lack of AI in Africa much more critical then the poor AI to defend Berlin. 

AI is always poor on offense so it will have trouble with this sort of thing in most all games.



Bigfish -> RE: Berlin falls without a fight - huge design flaw (8/15/2007 2:07:28 AM)

I discriped this problem about 2 weeks ago. But with the first patch there is something changed. When i try to invade at cherbourg the same way the AI placed an armoured corps there. But this is still not enough - with a good air and some battleships invading france is still possible this way.

Also there is another problem: The AI still move the german subs through the chanel everytime a new one is finished. Placing an surface unit to blocade the chanel in my last game no german subs enters the atlantic. I lost no PP from all my convois. Also it is possible to blocade german ports - so no subs can leave and finished subs could not deployed.

The next problem is the time. Simply stop the germans in France give you the time to push up the russians - so it is possible for you that the germans never get one feet on russian ground! Taking Berlin in early 43 with serveral russian armoured corps.

Playing this game is not about good strategics for beating the enemy - it is more like using AI bugs for getting finished as soon as possible.

The more i think about the AI - I think there will be a hard work for slitherine doing improvements. The complete naval system needs to get replaced by another one.



firepowerjohan -> RE: Berlin falls without a fight - huge design flaw (8/15/2007 10:48:01 AM)

The Protect AI and Capital protect AI exist in game already but needs tweaking. I am wondering to you who went through France and took Berlin

1) Did Axis AI send ANY units back from east front to protect for example Paris or Berlin?
2) If yes, how many units did they send back to protect?
3) How many units did you have in the 5 hexes range and 10 hexes range of Berlin when you took it?
4) What difficulty level were you playing on?

Yes, we are working on the patch and working on a number of issues [;)]

@Bigfish, no offence but when you say that a way to win is to stop Germany in France then it is just the basic strategy so nothing strange there. I mean, no one is giving up Paris for free and holding Paris forever means Axis will lose in the same way that if Axis conquers USSR then Allies will (most likleky) lose also. What difficulty level you playing on?



Bigfish -> RE: Berlin falls without a fight - huge design flaw (8/15/2007 12:50:22 PM)

Difficulty is always even. But what i mean is, that if you slow down german offense at france there are not enough german units at the east front when russia enters the war. I defend paris with lots of garrision units also building a massive front line at belgium. Because of the AI will fight any surrounding unit and not going straight for the capital, germany takes paris late in august 41. This is the reason while russia enters war they can start directly an offensive against polish mainland. There are only a few german units and while germany needs time to transport the units from france to poland i was able to kill them when they arrive.

Also there was no attacking from italian untis at the backdoor of france by coming from the south - only air raids against marseilles. Knowing that every enemy unit leaves the battlefield if the capital is conquerred, the AI should do everything to take the capital. At time the AI destroy all enemy units near an capital before attacking the capital itselfs.

While looking on SC2 their it is not possible to build lots of units because they become more expensive when a number of units is reached. This could solve this problem in CEAW too.


But i think the major flaw is that the AI send german subs always through the chanel - this means there will be no convoi battle instead of chanel battle which the allies will always win because of enough units. The german AI should always move the units north of the british isle!

OK for the first shoot CEAW is still a good game :) - But for the next version there is a lot of work todo.



firepowerjohan -> RE: Berlin falls without a fight - huge design flaw (8/15/2007 1:45:28 PM)

The Channel blocking was new, I did not think of using such strategy (mainly because when I play AI I try to play against it as I would play a human sort of like a house rule that does not put me through natural weaknesses of playing a machine) so thanks for the input [:)]

The Paris thing is still that, you seem to be simply too good to be playing on the normal difficulty level that's why you can stop Germany in France. IMO if Axis cannot even get Paris then they should lose. It should be irrelevent then what Axis do when they still have UK, France, USSR and USA to fight against. At that point when defeat is certain, the way they lose does not matter much. They neglect east and lose there or they move east and get mauled on both fronts.



Syagrius -> RE: Berlin falls without a fight - huge design flaw (8/15/2007 3:45:36 PM)

When playing with at least slight advantage Axis its not possible to hold Paris, unless commiting almost all British troops and leave UK almost undefended.



Hard Sarge -> RE: Berlin falls without a fight - huge design flaw (8/15/2007 3:58:18 PM)

the times I have taken Berlin, I have never seen the GE AI move troops from Russia back to Berlin (not sure if it has RRed troops back) but I have seen it try and build troops and place them around Berlin

most times to take Berlin, you do not really need a large army moving towards it, there is never a defending line of GE/AI troops in the West, just troops in Cities/resource sites

can't tell how many troops were with in 5 hex, 10 hex range



Irish army63 -> RE: Berlin falls without a fight - huge design flaw (8/15/2007 4:13:08 PM)

Re the message from Johan, here are some answers to his questions (I'm the original poster on this thread).

1) Did Axis AI send ANY units back from east front to protect for example Paris or Berlin?

Answer: None that I'm aware of. About three units turned up (two infantry one tank) but I think they are brand new units as I didn't spot anything leaving Russia.

2) If yes, how many units did they send back to protect?

Answer: See above.

3) How many units did you have in the 5 hexes range and 10 hexes range of Berlin when you took it?

Answer: I had half a dozen max within ten hexes and only three within five hexes.

4) What difficulty level were you playing on?

Answer I gave Axis a one notch advantage.

PS Don't get me wrong btw, I like this game and there is a great game in there that's a patch or two away.





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