God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (Full Version)

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targul -> God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/21/2007 6:13:28 AM)

Subject says it all for me. These things in 39 are attacking my land based air in Germany and between the two of them and the land based that can reach they destroy one fighter unit or tac air a turn. This means you go into France without air or you have to keep it out of air range of the carriers or you are dead.

Has anyone actually figured out how to stop these things they spoil the game. They are so unrealistic it amazes me that they were tested and no one figured out they were way overboard. I have seen the numerous board complaint but I havent seen a response that says they found away to control them.

PLease I dont want to hear from the Slith guys again how they are balanced I want to hear from the players who know they are not and found away to stop them.



Vypuero -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/21/2007 4:30:26 PM)

Buy a fighter at start and 3 fighters can quickly put paid to any silly carriers that get in the way.



Syagrius -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/21/2007 5:04:45 PM)

This guy is one the worst whiners I have seen on a forum.  It seems he spend his whole days whining on this forum. Get a life or stop play the game![8|]



YohanTM2 -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/21/2007 5:19:04 PM)

Actually Tragul is quite correct on this issue.

It is a great way to defend France. You build a FTR with GB and park both FTRs and both CVs on the south-west English coast and have a grand old time with the German air. Combine that with throwing in lots of Brit INF, transporting in French garrisons from the colonies and Germany is in the glue.

Be happy to show you if you would like a PBEM game.



targul -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/21/2007 5:54:50 PM)

Thanks Vypuero that may help.  Question is then do you fall behind in tech or does the late start on that end seem to not be a big thing.

Syagruis at least I dont spend time complaining about other peoples posts.  I spend my time playing and trying to find better and more effient ways to play instead of worrying about what you care about.



Vypuero -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/21/2007 8:06:16 PM)

No against these (human) strategies Germany needs to build very little tech if any before France falls - you have to come in hard and strong and as fast as possible.  The tactics can be countered, but if you dawdle they can really hammer you.  I try to buy a Tank, a Fighter, and a Leader at a minimum - maybe a Tac too - and maybe just 1 lab because that first lab is always 20, so you might as well buy it early and get better value for it.



targul -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/21/2007 9:44:05 PM)

Vypuero, Worth a try.

I have been building 4 techs and that is definitely not working. If only we could actually see what our opponents did in there turn it might be possible to position yourself tactically and know what actions they take so you can learn but with the situation we have we will never know and can never learn to play better so we are stuck guessing.

All of this shouldnt really be necessary if two things were done. One turn carriers into carriers instead of long range mobile battleships, two add the weather to the west. This should prevent both the Axis being silly too early and carriers operating like long range bombers.



heroes99 -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/22/2007 6:38:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Syagrius

This guy is one the worst whiners I have seen on a forum. It seems he spend his whole days whining on this forum. Get a life or stop play the game![8|]


It is alright , that one way to keep the forum alive

I believe targul love this game and been playing everyday or else he will not bother to complaint and dump the game into rubbish pile [:)][:)]



VonManteuffel -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/22/2007 9:50:40 AM)

Maybe pull them back a bit so he can't reach them so easily. He won't want to lose any CV's and will be reluctant to come too close.

The Low Countries are just a killing field though, with the CV's and the Spammy French ships.



VonManteuffel -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/22/2007 9:53:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vypuero

No against these (human) strategies Germany needs to build very little tech if any before France falls - you have to come in hard and strong and as fast as possible.  The tactics can be countered, but if you dawdle they can really hammer you.  I try to buy a Tank, a Fighter, and a Leader at a minimum - maybe a Tac too - and maybe just 1 lab because that first lab is always 20, so you might as well buy it early and get better value for it.



Very good point. So far, most of my attacks on France have been dismal and slow because of buying too much tech too early.



IainMcNeil -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/22/2007 3:19:25 PM)

Has anyone tried modding the carrier values and found any other values more balanced?



Major Victory -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/26/2007 3:59:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

Vypuero, Worth a try.

I have been building 4 techs and that is definitely not working. If only we could actually see what our opponents did in there turn it might be possible to position yourself tactically and know what actions they take so you can learn but with the situation we have we will never know and can never learn to play better so we are stuck guessing.

All of this shouldnt really be necessary if two things were done. One turn carriers into carriers instead of long range mobile battleships, two add the weather to the west. This should prevent both the Axis being silly too early and carriers operating like long range bombers.


Agreed, but until a fix is made, has anyone tried this as Germany. Build carriers yourself!
They cost the same as Fighters (build 3) and use your subs as screens, combine them with your land based air and I would think you could win battle of britain.

I do think it is very silly to fight WW2 this way (modern carrier warfare capibilities), but the game componets allow you to do it, cause if you don't, theres some other guy that will exploit something and do it to you!



jon_j_rambo -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/26/2007 4:07:57 PM)

Targul is the constant complainer.  Like Johnny Cash sang,"Cry, Cry, Cry".  He has a history of playing this..."oh, I used to be a badass, but now everything in life is somebody elses fault."  Let me give him some advise, it's a game!  Think!  Have some fun making strategies.  I love the fact the Allies can try some whacky stuff early on.  It's better than just sitting on a computer for 4+ hours, JUST to get to BARBY!  Guess if I was sitting around waiting on my next government check to arrive in the mail, I'd have time to play a 20+ hour game, but I don't.  Therefore, I like extreme strategies....always have, always will.  I'll need to draft off these ideas, might be opportunity to resurrect the old, RACK strategy.  RAMBO AXIS CARRIER KRACKER.  Targul, go hug your Doll & get back to the drawing board.

-Legend
-The American Dream
-Captain of Team USA



firepowerjohan -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/26/2007 4:10:00 PM)

Germany start with 60 production in 1939 scenario so as IDG and Vypuero has claimed all you have to do with Germany is to build a third fighter early on. Three German fighters will, especially when they get a Commander, out fight 2 Allied air and 2 allied carriers. Easiest is, test it in hotseat [;)]

I have heard alot of talk about carriers but when they were tested in human vs human play the conclusion was changed and ask IDG what he thinks about it. Best is, try this strategy against him and I am sure he will halt you using his fighters [8D]



YohanTM2 -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/26/2007 10:37:38 PM)

Counter for that FBJ is for GB to build a FTR as soon as they can as well.

Re IDG, I think he still believes they are overpowering. In the game we are playing the house rule is they can only fly 2 hexes inland until you get Strat1.

You need this to take away their impact on France campaign. If GB adds one FTR and you have 2 CVs you can really smash the German armor.

In a game we played recently I took out 2 of his ARM and 1 MOT in France. Latest game with this rule, did much less damage and killed zero Germans.



targul -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/26/2007 10:43:17 PM)

Buying carriers might work but then you have limited yourself to assiauting Britan. This is something I am loathe to do as it leaves the game only half done for me.

I really prefer to atttack Russia. Since game forces war in 41 this adds to the dilema.



PDiFolco -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/27/2007 2:28:38 PM)

It looks pretty ridiculous to have Brit CV playing any role in the Campaign for France ...
First Britain only had a few (maybe 200 or so) CV-based planes, they were outdated planes, unable to make significant damage to land units (Swordfishes were biplane, not even dive-bombers !), and they didn't stand any chance vs ground-based aircraft, plus the CV themselves would have been sunk on the day they'll have shown up on the shores in range of the Luftwaffe !
Maybe there're two problems : CV air combat value is much too high, and the naval units are not vulnerable enough to air attack themselves.



Syagrius -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/27/2007 5:18:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: firepowerjohan

. Three German fighters will, especially when they get a Commander, out fight 2 Allied air and 2 allied carriers. Easiest is, test it in hotseat [;)]


Fighters can get commanders? I tought only land units can have one? Or does air units are influenced by land commanders?



Dave Ferguson -> RE: God Like Carriers How do you Kill them? (8/27/2007 6:19:00 PM)

Apparently air units are influenced by land commanders but you can't deploy a commander with an air unit



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