RE: Weather? (Full Version)

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YohanTM2 -> RE: Weather? (8/28/2007 4:25:41 AM)

Agreed, but want to wait for a few more patches that will hopefully address some key issues including the fatal oil bug

Then, I will work on a patch of the other issues which are fairly straight forward and include at this point:

1) Reduce CV air-air value
2) Increase Axis oil a bit
3) Increase German manpower a bit
4) Reduce Italian manpower a bit
5) Somehow reduce Amphib capabilities but this may need a patch, not sure how to mod it and hate having to use house rules

and some more but again want to wait until another patch or 2 hit the street.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bossy573


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

This game has the best game engine I have seen in a while for the level of play it aims for, but it is not WiF (which is taking years to develop even with a great developer and major input from the WiF community).


I guess the other option is modding the game. It is so new that I haven't bothered to check whether anyone has started putting their own touches on the game.




PDiFolco -> RE: Weather? (8/28/2007 11:53:39 AM)

Usually I hate Rambo but here I admit he's rather on spot - not in the manners though.
I don't want a strategic WW2 game to get lost in details such as the effect of rains and clouds in W Europe - BTW guys I live in France and storms are really really rare !
SC2 has a richer game design but is just plain ugly, the map is too small and the squares are really a dumb idea ...Never liked HoI games, a mm nightmare and AI is non-existant.
CEAW has good looks and a good feel also, it's fun and not that far off history. Just fix the CVs, review Air-to-ships combat values, lift the "historical" fixed war entry dates  and it'll be ok. Maybe also weather "events" can be scripted to have Russian winter not only in 41 but potentially each year ? In ol'AH 3R game the Russian winter was the next winter after Axis DoW, it was abused also with "dummy DoW" just to let the winter pass !




firepowerjohan -> RE: Weather? (8/28/2007 12:09:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

Usually I hate Rambo but here I admit he's rather on spot - not in the manners though.
I don't want a strategic WW2 game to get lost in details such as the effect of rains and clouds in W Europe - BTW guys I live in France and storms are really really rare !
SC2 has a richer game design but is just plain ugly, the map is too small and the squares are really a dumb idea ...Never liked HoI games, a mm nightmare and AI is non-existant.
CEAW has good looks and a good feel also, it's fun and not that far off history. Just fix the CVs, review Air-to-ships combat values, lift the "historical" fixed war entry dates  and it'll be ok. Maybe also weather "events" can be scripted to have Russian winter not only in 41 but potentially each year ? In ol'AH 3R game the Russian winter was the next winter after Axis DoW, it was abused also with "dummy DoW" just to let the winter pass !




Winter event occurs EVERY year once USSR join so no dummies there [:D]
If you invade them in 1941 you will get winter in 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944....
The CV's are under investigation.
War entries are fixed for next patch so they randomly vary and you can set them in editor also if you want a country to join in 1916 doing a WW1 scenario [:)]

@Yohan.
1) Under investigation
2) Oil Fields will generate more in next patch
3) Vypuero is making the scenarios, should hear with him
4) Vypuero is making the scenarios, should hear with him
5) Not likely for next patch


So far we have made 17 changes in the new patch and lots of more in works before the patch is complete. Alot of the changes are from influence and ideas by players. We ARE trying to hint on what things are likely to be changed and can be changed due to game engine design and think it is more helpful than just being silence and promise everything.






PDiFolco -> RE: Weather? (8/28/2007 2:56:15 PM)

Nice !
To elaborate on the air vs ship issue : it feels really wrong to only be able to kill 1 naval point and lose as much air when making an air attack on fleets.In my last game I got rid of Brit CVs by sending 2 subs in the channel, they finally got the CVs and Brit air was quite useless vs them.
OTOH WW2 showed (at Pearl, Tarento,..) that Airpower ruled the seas, and the Atlantic battle vs subs was also won with planes in the end.
IMHO Air units, especially Tac bombers, should have a much greater Naval attack value, and conversely fleets (except maybe CV) be less effective when defending against planes.
With that and the planned fixes the game should be ok [;)]



Vypuero -> RE: Weather? (8/28/2007 4:07:24 PM)

Yohan there is no historic justification to either increase German manpower or lower Italian manpower - I verified the figures based on the armed forces of both countries and they are accurate.



targul -> RE: Weather? (8/28/2007 7:43:44 PM)

It is true you get weather in 41+ but 40 has no weather.  Just had an opponent invade in Jan 41 so he gets an entire year free of weather but Jan is actually winter according to all but the Australians and a few islands in that area.  So it would be best to have weather in Russia weather there is combat or not in that area.

PD you are correct the TAC air is very ineffective vs naval units.  There needs to be a major upgrade in that area to prevent these battleships and carriers from feeling free to wander the channel without danger.  You know that maybe the solution to the carrier problem.  If they adjusted the carrier air down vs air that would probably solve the whole problem since it would be like the war and people would not send there ships into certain death.



firepowerjohan -> RE: Weather? (8/28/2007 8:00:00 PM)

In peace time soldiers do not die out of winter because they can seek shelter and do not have to keep the lines. So, we have not made the winter event in effect when a country is at peace. Who was that friend who invaded USSR in January 1941 anyway and did he win?

AT_WAR_PRODUCTION_INCREASE 10
FULL_MOBILIZATION_PRODUCTION_INCREASE 20

There are both pros and cons with invading ussr. The earlier you invade the less USSR units but also the AT_WAR_PRODUCTION_INCREASE bumps up the USSR war effort by 10% which means they will get 16 extra PP per turn all the way from DoW until their "normal entry" in October 1941.

So from January to October means 13-14 turns means ~100 PP extra for USSR. It can be worth it of course though I have not seen it in any of the high ranked TcpIP player games so it remains interesting alternative which is good [:)]



targul -> RE: Weather? (8/28/2007 8:08:28 PM)

Game is still ongoing.  It is getting toward Oct 41 now and he will probably take Moscow this turn.



PDiFolco -> RE: Weather? (8/28/2007 11:36:45 PM)

Why not just have '40 using normal winter rules so Axis hasn't free lucnh then?

About air vs naval, from browsing the Slitherine forum it looks quite easy to mod the value, but I lack experience for putting "right" values... Any ideas ?



Bossy573 -> RE: Weather? (8/29/2007 2:09:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: firepowerjohan

So far we have made 17 changes in the new patch and lots of more in works before the patch is complete. Alot of the changes are from influence and ideas by players. We ARE trying to hint on what things are likely to be changed and can be changed due to game engine design and think it is more helpful than just being silence and promise everything.



Excellent! Your willingness to come in here and listen, discuss, take some heat is both laudable and appreciated.



targul -> RE: Weather? (8/29/2007 5:07:37 AM)

Most of these games are moddable and I am glad about that.  This one is more difficult then most to mod but it is not impossible and they have said they will improve on that area.

I too am not a mod person.  I play the mods I like the mods but I am not going to write the mods.  If I desired to program a game I would do that but I have no desire to do design anymore. 

I actually find the mods to be significantly better then the Vanilla versions.  I dont care that much for HOI2 but I love Stoney Road.  I am not a big fan of SC2 but I really enjoy the Third Reich Mod.  In this one the verision Dave made is much better.  I am awaiting Dave's update on that version as I suspect he will really out do himself.



PDiFolco -> RE: Weather? (8/29/2007 11:26:38 AM)

Dave mod, is that the non-hosted one, only available through mail ?  Would be glad to try if it was available...

And any chance to have a real mod support feature, such as a .ini entry pointing to the data folder (would be simple and neat, SE works like that) ? [;)]



YohanTM2 -> RE: Weather? (8/29/2007 1:50:02 PM)

Thanks FBJ, not bad if we only have to house rule amphibs,

Yohan
quote:

ORIGINAL: firepowerjohan

quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

Usually I hate Rambo but here I admit he's rather on spot - not in the manners though.
I don't want a strategic WW2 game to get lost in details such as the effect of rains and clouds in W Europe - BTW guys I live in France and storms are really really rare !
SC2 has a richer game design but is just plain ugly, the map is too small and the squares are really a dumb idea ...Never liked HoI games, a mm nightmare and AI is non-existant.
CEAW has good looks and a good feel also, it's fun and not that far off history. Just fix the CVs, review Air-to-ships combat values, lift the "historical" fixed war entry dates  and it'll be ok. Maybe also weather "events" can be scripted to have Russian winter not only in 41 but potentially each year ? In ol'AH 3R game the Russian winter was the next winter after Axis DoW, it was abused also with "dummy DoW" just to let the winter pass !




Winter event occurs EVERY year once USSR join so no dummies there [:D]
If you invade them in 1941 you will get winter in 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944....
The CV's are under investigation.
War entries are fixed for next patch so they randomly vary and you can set them in editor also if you want a country to join in 1916 doing a WW1 scenario [:)]

@Yohan.
1) Under investigation
2) Oil Fields will generate more in next patch
3) Vypuero is making the scenarios, should hear with him
4) Vypuero is making the scenarios, should hear with him
5) Not likely for next patch


So far we have made 17 changes in the new patch and lots of more in works before the patch is complete. Alot of the changes are from influence and ideas by players. We ARE trying to hint on what things are likely to be changed and can be changed due to game engine design and think it is more helpful than just being silence and promise everything.








YohanTM2 -> RE: Weather? (8/29/2007 1:52:14 PM)

Ah, but are we looking at history or playability? From a balanced play perspective I am thinking they need to be tweaked a bit.

Going to have to see after the next patch as except for one game I have stopped playig due to the fatal oil bug.

Not a major issue as we can mod these as needed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vypuero

Yohan there is no historic justification to either increase German manpower or lower Italian manpower - I verified the figures based on the armed forces of both countries and they are accurate.




targul -> RE: Weather? (8/29/2007 6:42:14 PM)

Yes PD.  He will send you the files though.  It makes the AI really work well in this game.  Too many Italians but otherwise a darn good mod.



Dave Ferguson -> RE: Weather? (8/29/2007 6:57:01 PM)

I am confused
If you DOW russia in say Jan 41 there is no russian weather effect because the weather effect die roll only happens if russia is at war at that point!!!!!
Hopefully I misunderstand this

Dave



firepowerjohan -> RE: Weather? (8/29/2007 7:26:49 PM)

Good find. Yes, currently the winter effect is only used when USSR is at war since at peace time the soldiers do not die but can seek refuge instead of holding their lines in poor supply and cold weather.

However, it is possible to invade USSR in January 1941 and avoid the Mud since the Winter event never happens. So, for next patch instead I will change it so that the winter effect happens and is there so as soon as you invade in January you will have the remaining restricted turns of slow movement and mud there.






Dave Ferguson -> RE: Weather? (8/29/2007 7:43:33 PM)

Thanks, no panic for the russians in winter 40 then.

Of course Belorussia and the Baltic states do not have winter but not a lot of people know that!!!

Dave



Vypuero -> RE: Weather? (8/29/2007 7:47:14 PM)

Eastern Poland, Bessarabia, Karelia, and the Baltic States are Russian occupied territory at the start of the game but are not actual, original Russian territory.  The winter rule only affects original russian territory.



targul -> RE: Weather? (8/29/2007 8:37:02 PM)

Thanks Firepower that solves that one.



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