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Kharan -> (9/22/2000 2:28:00 AM)
quote: Originally posted by Kharan: Yak-9B and 9T, Ju-87B-1, Focke Wulf 190 F and G and that one P-47D variant should be marked specialists also. And there should be some indication whether a plane is a specialist in the buying screen, that list is pretty hard to memorize [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. I noticed that the brackets right of the armor rating in the buy screen show the amount of side armor. Could it be changed to show top armor, so it would indicate whether a plane is a specialist? quote: Originally posted by Kharan: Those responsible for the Finnish OOB could go through the leader names and eliminate some that sound more like Libyan. (Jackzell, Harvi, Wiik, Vadonen, Horelli, Guistio, Wadolin, Jenetz, Genemaki etc.) These are indeed bit funny...unfortunately afaik these names are not in a separate file a'la SPWW2 so changing them may or may not be easy...comments, coders magnificent? Voriax I've mailed a list of the bad finnish names and their corrections to Paul... Maybe they'll find their way into the game. Ps. Finnish M.S.406 shows a picture of a Hurricane. French M.S.406 has the right pic. [This message has been edited by Kharan (edited September 21, 2000).]

Grisha -> (9/22/2000 1:39:00 PM)
Soviet Rifle Units Rifle Squad From July, 1941 the rifle squad was: 9 Moisin-Nagant 1 DP lmg 1 Sniper Total: 11 men A sniper was actually attached to the squad. From late summer of 1942 until the end of the war it was either: (Type A) 8 Moisin-Nagant 1 DP lmg Total: 9 men (Type B) 7 Moisin-Nagant 2 DP lmg Total: 9 men Submachinegun Squad The first authorized SMG unit was a SMG company in 6 Dec 1941, and had the following squad: 10 PPSh41 By mid-1942 SMG units were standardized, and the SMG squad was: 8 PPsh41 By April and May of 1943 1/3 of the rifles in Guards and regular rifle divisions were replaced by submachineguns. The two most common methods of incorporating submachineguns into the rifle units were either: a) One squad in a Rifle platoon was a SMG squad. b) One platoon in a Rifle company was a SMG platoon. Of the two, (b) was the more common method. Rifle Platoons From July 1941, Rifle platoons were as follows: HQ - Moisin-Nagant, Tokarev pistol 4 Rifle Squads In early 1942 the sniper was removed from the Rifle squads. From December 1942, the standard Rifle squad was: HQ - Moisin or PPSh41, Tokarev pistol 4 Rifle Squads Submachinegun Platoons From 12 December 1941 until the end of the war the submachinegun platoon was: HQ - 2 PPSh41 3 Submachinegun Squads As the war progressed units that had lighter than average casualties were given more replacements than those units which chronically took heavier casualties. This meant that many units were continuously understrength, so methods were codified for organizing under such conditions. For Rifle companies the most common modification was to have only 2 rifle platoons instead of 3, and each platoon would only have 3 squads rather than 4. And, as it turns out, even companies with 3 platoons often had no more than 3 squads per platoon. In extreme circumstances, a rifle company could even end up with 2 platoons of 2 squads each. In fact, in the Karelia Front in 1944 rifle squads were down to 6 rifles, and 1 DP LMG, while each rifle company was reduced to 2 platoons of 3 of these reduced squads each. While rifle units could be seriously reduced at times, every effort was made to retain as many of the heavy weapons. - From 'Soviet Infantry Tactics in World War II' by Charles C. Sharp

renwor -> (9/22/2000 3:20:00 PM)
M5A1 tank has slight problem!!! Or , more precisely, it's 37mmL56 M6 gun. The graphic for impact of it's shell is three explosions, as in AA autocannons, not single as would be proper with AT gun. M3A1 with 37mmL53 M3 gun doesn't share this problem. the difference between guns is mainly HE kill. M3 - 4 M6 - 8 Maybe, for the same warhead size, there is a range for single shot HE kill, if more, program expect a burst, not single shot automaticaly. I suspect the M6 gun is screwed in more than one way. Renwor

Randy -> (9/23/2000 2:22:00 PM)
Renwar, I've noticed the same problem with the M-22 Locust airborne tank. It also has the 37mm L56 M6 gun. Next I'll check the LVT(A)1, since it had a 37mm gun but I don't know which one. Semper Fi Randy

Arralen -> (9/23/2000 4:31:00 PM)
German OOB70: Change unit #132 88mm FlaK 18 AT from (class 08 Flak) to (class 06 Anti-Tank Gun). AA-Gun is unit #243 88mm FlaK18 AA .. is there any reason the AA variant has 1 point better FC and RgF and (Radio 83) instead of (Radio 62) ? Why do they have different weapons (guess: same reason as on FC/RgF)? Than there's Formation #1177 "88 Flak AA Plt" and #1176 "88 Flak AA Sec" - both (purchase screen 02 - Arty) and with (Special 10) =Elite ; on the other hand there's #1070/#1071 "AA Sec/Plt", with (purchase screen 04-Misc). Obviously, this doesn't work out as expected - the game really screws up on this: - the 20mm and 37mm AA are available with the #1176/1177 "88 Flak AA" as well - presumably because they are marked as AA-Guns too. - the 88 AA does not show up in this formation every time it's selected; had one instant that the 88 only showed up _every other time_ I selected this formation. - the #1070/1071 "AA Sec/Plt" does work as intended .. could anyone explain to me why the 88 AA does not show up here? U#149 OBWurfgrnte 41 [rename] Abbr. is "Wurfgr.41" U#171 Sniper [change] Uses Kar 98k, later Gw43 U#159 GE FJ Airborne [change] Uses W#090 FG42 Rifle .. U#158/U#160 use W#247 FJ Gewehr42, which seems to be the same ?! U#186 JU-52 Troop [rename] Ju 52/3m . there's no "Troop Carrier" variant [change] speed should equal the Stuka at best .. 4 is way to much U#187 DFS 230 [change] .. nominally had cap.8, but was overloaded regularly: cap.10..12 would be better [change] make it speed 2 - or does this not work? All planes: leave the first "-" out .. e.g. Ju 87G-1 instead of Ju-87G-1 U#189 Ju 87B-1 Stuka [change] remove weap1 7,92 MG (or at least make it 2 instead of 3 .. one was firing backwards, and none where used when dive bombing - even if Hollywood say it was [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] U#92 Command Car [rename]..maybe we could replace this ominous "CC" with something more appropiate? [change] And change the Carry to "6" again ########################################################################## ALL OOBs (special: Japan) W#85 Molotov Has sound 603 again, which crashes the game. Change to "0" and it's fine (or better: make the sound work) has PenAP222, PenHE75 and PenHEAT75 again; I thought it was meant to have PenHe only? W#90 Molotov (Japan) Has range 12(3) !!! and HE kill 4 ( above W#85 has 3) W#xxx most 20 mm guns .. have weapon size 222, but are "equipped" with AP, HE and APCR penetration .. and ammo ?! Is this supposed to have changed to "pure HE" only ? W#xxx aircraft-mg (7,6mm/.30 cal) have PenHE of 9..12, while ground weapons haven't got any Pen. I would suggest to either give them all Pen or none . Thinking about it, ALL small arms should have some Pen value .. as they in reality have .. the MG34 is rated with 8mm(30°) at 100m, while the K98 gets about 5..6mm - you're not absolutly save even if you're in your APC [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Did a quick test on a Pz.IV and found some surprising result: While using HE ammo and PenHe, the penetration value dropped of with range like it would using AP ammo ? This ain't bad (after all, the small arms rounds are "solid shot AP"), but asthe ranges of the MGs are vastly different, penetration over greater range varies wildly. Note at this point, that some aircraft MG I checked where set to range 24(6), what effectivly kills their penetration IF the Pen for aircraft weapons drops of with range as well ??? ########################################################################## Japan OOB75 SNLF seems to be a pretty mess to me: U151/152 SNLF HQ is (class 07 - Platoon HQ) U153/154/155 SNLF Sqd is (class 106 - Marines) U156/157/158 SNLF Sqd* is (class 73 - Elite Inf) it needn't be carried, so why the "*" ?? .. obviously they all should be (class 70 - Special Forces), shouldn't they? Formations aren't better at all: F#1123 SNLF Plt has (special 10) F#1124 SNLF Co has (special 11) ..I understand that this is to give the attached F#1143 HMG PLT B recon ability, but the same would be true to the Plt which has Knee Mortar Sqd attached. (same for the following 5 units #1125 ...1129) And even than this wouldn't really work out - the only units able to infiltrate are the Squads (still; at least if you change them back to "Special Forces"), so when using C&C you'll end up with the HQ/Mortars/MGs at your front line and the Squads in the enemy rear, unable to move .. Is there any cause to make the HQ a (class HQ) ? By the way I noticed that the classes for the other inf. units are mixed up as well .. Inf A is medium or second line (!)inf , while Inf B is just inf or light inf. ########################################################################## Poland OOB80 U#12 Valentine VIII has (class65 - command tank) but radio 82 only ?! U#20 TKS nkm even worse .. radio 13 !!! found it in F#1088 (Sec) and F1090 (Co) .. but, doesn't really makes sense to me?! Are these Command Tanks without radio historically correct ? W#008 20mm FK wz.38 has PenAP 21 and PenHE 22 .. good joke :-) ..that's it for today !! Arralen [This message has been edited by Arralen (edited September 23, 2000).]

John T_MatrixForum -> (9/23/2000 10:34:00 PM)
Minute correction. SAAB have never built Lorries. Norway unit 1 and Finland unit 224 are medium lorries, Rename them Volvo or Chevy. (SAAB built it first car after the war and Scania was part of the same industry group.)

rexmonday -> (9/24/2000 10:00:00 AM)
The british Home Guard units and engineers still have smoke dischargers. It shows up in the information screen during the game, but didn't use to appear in one of the OOB editors. One of the other OOB editors showed that it was actually there. I sent a more detailed list of infantry units with SD's in a while ago. It was under the heading "A COUPLE OF DEFINITE (?) (TINY) BUGS". I have not checked to see if those listed are all still equipped with SDs

Don Doom -> (9/25/2000 6:13:00 AM)
Is there a forum or location to report, wrong icons/pictures for spwaw. I.E for the germans the MarderII and marder III H are switched, the PZKIII M is shown as a PZKIV G. Don

Paul Vebber -> (9/25/2000 8:43:00 PM)
The big thing I'm trying to do in the 4.1 OObs is improve the point costs and fix a few things that are "broken" like infantry with smoke dischargers. I appreciate all the input, but many of these things will have to wait for the "final" OOB patch that will take a few more weeks to work out. Several folks have asked to be on that group working on that and I know I missed a few so if you never heard back form me I'm sending our info to that group in the next few days so they can get going on fixing the "details"...

Charles22 -> (9/26/2000 2:48:00 AM)
I'm as certain as I can be without doing exhausting research. It would seem as though ALL artillery guns have 60 rounds of ammo, even the real heavy stuff. I've putted around with 2 or 3 nations and they're all 60 rounds. I recall the earlier version had generally less ammo for the larger guns (and usually all of them were less than 60 rounds). [This message has been edited by Charles22 (edited September 25, 2000).]

cjpaul -> (9/26/2000 2:58:00 AM)
I would like to offer data for the German Hs 129 aircraft. All of the data is from the book, "HS 129 PANZERJÄGER" by MARTIN PEGG. This book is the only accurate information source on this plane. Germany's OOB Unit 195 Hs 129B-2/R3 Crew 1 Available June 1942 to end of '44 Weapons: 168 30mm Mk101 10 He x1 238 20mm MG151/20 15 x2 228 7.92mm MG17 30 x2 Unit 202 Hs 129B-3 Crew 1 Available October '44 to end of '49 Weapons: 170 75mm Bk7.5 13 He x1 228 7.92mm MG17 30 x2 Note: MG151/20s were removed because of weight. Radio 92 - only 25 were made out of 879 Hs 129s. Unit 205 Hs 129B-2 Available March '44 to end of '49 Same as Unit 195 except improved armor. Should also have the Mk103 cannon but the differences between it and the Mk101 were in production and cost not performance. Unit 209 Hs 129B-2/R1 Crew 1 Available March '44 to end of '49 Weapons: 228 7.92mm MG17 30 He x2 238 20mm MG151/20 15 x2 112 Streuwaffen AP 2 Weapon 112 Streuwaffen AP was the SD-2 and was a 2kg anti-personnel fragmentation bomb, while weapon 199 Streuwaffen AT was the SD-4, which was a 4kg hollow charge anti-tank bomb. Unit 209 is the uparmored Hs 129 with the standard armament, Rüstsatz 1. If the standard armor version is used, it would be available from May '42. In place of the 144 SD-2, a 250kg bomb with 2 50kg bombs could be carried or 6 50kg bombs. There is no evidence that the SD-4 was used. R2 was a pack of 4 MG17s but it wasn't very widely used. The Mk101 was the R3, while the Mk103 was R8. These are the only known Rüstsatz. The Mk101 and Mk103 cannons were automatic and had an armor penetration of 100mm @ 100m @ 0 deg. incidence. They were usually fired in bursts of 2 or 3 rounds. The shell had a tungsten core and was available upto the end of the war. The 75mm Bk7.5 was the Pak40 with an automatic loader. It had the same performance as the Pak. Rumunia's OOB Unit 70 Hs 129B-2/R1 Crew 1 Available August '43 to end of '49 Weapons: 166 20mm MG151/20 15 He x2 188 7.92mm MG17 20 x2 241 250kg bomb 1 239 50kg bomb 2 The 250kg bomb could be replaced by 4 50kg bombs. This plane has the same armor as Unit 195 Hs 129B-2/R3.

frank1970 -> (10/9/2000 11:18:00 AM)
Little Problem with German tanks: It seems that in version 4.2 regular German Pz Units would not use Panther tanks? Only SS-Formations get this tanks.

Scipio Africanus -> (10/10/2000 9:01:00 AM)
Version 4.3b Minor bug in US Oob with M2 tank showing as a rather nice looking truck. Less minor bug over at ANZAC, where the infantry AT squad armed with the ATR (not the PIAT) also has an 85mm L53 gun. The unit costs 18 points and can move so I assume the 85 is an error- good bang for the buck- it is in slot 4. Cheers, ------------------ Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus

Lars Remmen -> (10/10/2000 11:26:00 AM)
In v.4.3.b when purchasing a US Arm Inf Plt, it is not possible to load all the units onto the HT's. The US sniper is far superior to the other nations snipers. The ANZAC or Canadian Hurricane IID has eigth 20mm cannons and 4 40mm! A true war winner had it been the case :-D Lars

Kharan -> (10/10/2000 2:35:00 PM)
Anzac has a battery of 60 pounder Howitzers. Some guns! I don't think the SU-12 is right (maybe that's why there's no pic for it)... Hard to find anything about it, but this page reports that SU-12 was an earlier but similar version of the SU-76 (and not just a gun mounted on a GAZ truck).

steel -> (10/10/2000 10:10:00 PM)
Finland OT-130 has airplane pictures OT-133 -------- \| \|---------- 122 H 38 BTY same thing ( airplane pictures ) Fi ski Sqd 39 has 1 move point German some Ge FJ airborne troops has airplane pictures

Warhorse -> (10/10/2000 11:01:00 PM)
quote: Originally posted by Kharan: Anzac has a battery of 60 pounder Howitzers. Some guns! I don't think the SU-12 is right (maybe that's why there's no pic for it)... Hard to find anything about it, but this page reports that SU-12 was an earlier but similar version of the SU-76 (and not just a gun mounted on a GAZ truck). No, the SU-12 in the oob is correct, they are 2 completely different vehicles!! The SU-12 in the oob is the first actual Soviet attempt at Self propelled support, early on, attached to mot. units, and cav, I think, not at home so can't check this to be sure;-) Thanks for the observation though, Kharan. ------------------ Mike Amos Meine Ehre Heisst Treue

Randy -> (10/11/2000 11:32:00 AM)
Earlier Frank had mentioned not being able to locate Panthers in other than SS formations. I also have 4.2 and have the same problem. I also noticed that some of the late model German 8rad armored cars are missing (the 234/1 and 234/2 Puma). Thanks Semper Fi Randy

Grah -> (10/11/2000 3:17:00 PM)
1941 Anzacs New Zealand/Australian AT rifles unit also has some 95mm HE-firing thing in slot 4. (I'm at work and can't remember the exact name) I'd never heard of it. Could this be an error? Grah

Kharan -> (10/11/2000 3:40:00 PM)
quote: Originally posted by Warhorse: No, the SU-12 in the oob is correct, they are 2 completely different vehicles!! The SU-12 in the oob is the first actual Soviet attempt at Self propelled support, early on, attached to mot. units, and cav, I think, not at home so can't check this to be sure;-) Thanks for the observation though, Kharan. From the Red Steel page "In early 1942, the design team at Zavod #38 in Kirow began its development of a self-propelled gun based upon the T-60 chassis, specified as OSU-76 (Opytnaya Samokhodnaya Ustanovka). The OSU-76 was armed with a 76.2mm ZiS-3 gun mounted on the rear of a modified T-60 light tank. Inadequate size of the chassis resulted in the T-60 chassis being replaced with a T-70 chassis and a new project. In the spring of 1942, the Grabin team at Zavod #92 in Gorki designed the SU-12. This was practically an enlarged chassis with a 76.2mm ZiS-3 gun in an open-top superstructure at the rear. After completed trials in the summer of 1942, the GKO accepted it for production, known as the SU-76 light mechanized gun." From the best Russian ww2 database, Russian Military Zone. "In October 19, 1942, the GKO issued an document #2429ss which ordered the GAZ factory and the Factory #38 to develop, test and put in the full-scale production the light SPG, armed by the 76.2 mm gun ZIS-3. New vehicle based on the chassis and engine of the T-70 tank, increasing its length and adding an extra wheel. In November 1942, both factories showed their variants of the further self-propelled gun. Both SP guns were armed by ZIS-3Sh ("Sh" means "shturmovaya" or "assault") assault gun. The GAZ's project was named GAZ-71, the project of The Factory #38 named SU-12. On December 9, 1942, after the comparative trials, the GAZ-71 was recognized as "not conform to the existing war conditions" and was "very unreliable"; the further work was cancelled. The SU-12, on the contrary, was accepted for service under the name "SU-76 Assault Self-Propelled Gun". From the January 1, 1943, the mass production was started." I'm not saying there wasn't that first attempt at sp support (although I haven't seen any mention of it), but it wasn't called SU-12. [This message has been edited by Kharan (edited October 11, 2000).]

frank1970 -> (10/11/2000 3:47:00 PM)
Is it possible to give SS or Guards an own Oob, as USArmy and US Marines? This way the Nation Oobs wouldn´t be so full and could be more detailed. You could give special abilities to these new "nations", too.

gebo -> (10/11/2000 6:05:00 PM)
Why ist the Mg-34 CMG in the new version at the third position on not on the second..? This is found by every german tank from Pz-III to Pz-VIe. And the tank although not just making smoke when they are driving in the desert, they also do it on every terrain..? Is this a bug or not...?

gebo -> (10/11/2000 6:22:00 PM)
The Mg34 CMG are in the new version at the third position. Shouldn´t it be the second. I´ve find this bug from Pz-III - Pz-VI! Another bug in my opinion is that the tanks make dust in every terrain while they are driving not just in the desert!

Voriax -> (10/11/2000 6:34:00 PM)
My my Gebo, aren't we a tad impatient. One posting is usually enough [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] I wouldn't really call it a bug though. The position has little meaning. I'm not sure why this change was done but looking at the other oob's it was sort of 'standardization' meaning that the slot 2 is for AAMG or close defence weapon. This is my not-so-educated guess though. Voriax ------------------ OOB-Wan Kenobi

gebo -> (10/11/2000 7:09:00 PM)
All right, vorix, as you have seen i´m recruit here and not english speaking because i´m from austria! Moreover my comp hang up as i´ve posted my mail! So..... But what do you ore other veterans think about the dust the tanks make when they are driving, in my opinion it makes the game boring because you can allways see what the enemy wants to do...!

Voriax -> (10/11/2000 7:44:00 PM)
My comment was meant as a friendly poke...and my first language is Finnish [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] I have to look at that dust thingy. I haven't been able to play as much as I might like...but still I feel it doesn't show always. Voriax ------------------ OOB-Wan Kenobi

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