Hardest Campaign (Full Version)

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Veldor -> Hardest Campaign (10/14/2007 8:54:28 PM)

I've only played Iraq and North Korea thus far but have to say North Korea seems at least 3 times easier due to the availability of long range AA missles and longer range ATG/entry level smart bombs etc. I seem to have much more trouble with air superiority in Iraq especially in the 9 day variety.

Has anyone else experienced similar results and/or how do the other campaigns compare?



jureidinim -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/14/2007 10:35:09 PM)

Haven't tried them all, but the N. Korea War i did on average difficulty really got easy after:
1) The Infra track was at a decent level requiring less hits for ground targets - so i no longer needed to rely on range zero bombs for that possible third hit.
2) As you said - the easy availability of longe range weapons. MIGs don't come into the Pre Approach areas, so you can stay there and be immune to the Migs with 0 range. Also, the (AGM84 ??) AtG weapon has a standoff range of 3, so again - just stay in the pre approach areas and bomb the target. Fast bombers have AGM 88's for any SAM's with range 1 (usually Radar types) and the rest just fire away from relative safety.

Seems the stores are fully replenished between missions. If there was a set amount of each weapon for the entire campaign - then it could get tricky as you could be forced to use shorter range weapons. Allowing the Migs (at least the 0 range ones) the *possibility* of entering the pre approach area (not starting there) would also make things more difficult.



NefariousKoel -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/14/2007 11:53:51 PM)

I find the smaller amount of missions in Libya mixed with extremely limited long range/smart weapons is my biggest challenge.  Iraq is right after that.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/15/2007 12:15:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jureidinim
Seems the stores are fully replenished between missions. If there was a set amount of each weapon for the entire campaign - then it could get tricky as you could be forced to use shorter range weapons. Allowing the Migs (at least the 0 range ones) the *possibility* of entering the pre approach area (not starting there) would also make things more difficult.


Could you clarify that? If you mean the S.O. points, those are supposed to be for the entire campaign and should not be replenished after each mission.



jureidinim -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/15/2007 4:46:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: jureidinim
Seems the stores are fully replenished between missions. If there was a set amount of each weapon for the entire campaign - then it could get tricky as you could be forced to use shorter range weapons. Allowing the Migs (at least the 0 range ones) the *possibility* of entering the pre approach area (not starting there) would also make things more difficult.


Could you clarify that? If you mean the S.O. points, those are supposed to be for the entire campaign and should not be replenished after each mission.


No - not S.O points - the total number for any weapon. In the N. Korea campaign (War) the AGM 84 have a range of 3 as do the Aim120 missiles. These cost no S.O. points, but are replenished to full stock between every mission (or so it seems). Basically free "super weapons" with no possibility of them running out. So with fast pilots loaded up with these, they can stay in the safety of the pre-approach area and fire away. Give Banzai a Harm or two to clear any potential Range 1 radar SAM and there is no threat except from MIGs - which will be dealt with by your fast pilots with the range 3 missiles. Migs with range 0 don't even count and pose no threat.
The only deterring factor would be bad dice rolling or how may weight points they have available - but WP's are not too big a deal for most missions when you have full access to these weapons. So most missions here seem to "plan" the same way.
The higher difficulties impose bonuses for the enemy and more stress on your pilots - but won't force you away from using the same tactics. Sam's and Migs which can't reach me in pre approach won't be helped by the +1 bonus (assuming Banzai and others did their job on turn one and wasted the Sam at range 1 [:D])

I'll try the others and N. Korea again - maybe i was just lucky. [8D]

Once you get the Infra track rolling, the above strategy becomes nigh unbeatable as you need less hits to destroy the target.



jureidinim -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/15/2007 5:48:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor

I've only played Iraq and North Korea thus far but have to say North Korea seems at least 3 times easier due to the availability of long range AA missles and longer range ATG/entry level smart bombs etc. I seem to have much more trouble with air superiority in Iraq especially in the 9 day variety.

Has anyone else experienced similar results and/or how do the other campaigns compare?


Just finished a 6 day campaign in Iraq (Average difficulty) and I agree with you - much more difficult due to the lack of the longer range weapons - by lack i mean you have to "pay" S.O. points to get it. So bombers are forced now to use the iron bombs with the zero range - which means having to fly into more SAMs and MIGs.

I'm thinking too that the shorter campaigns in themselves could be more difficult, as you do not have the time to progress far down the campaign tracks (Intel/Intra/Recon/Radar), and so you are *almost* facing the same amount of enemies throughout the campaign.

Interesting last day of the Iraq conflict:
I was at 6 VP's (sucky i know [:D]) and i went for the 4 VP WMD base to try for the rating of "Good" = 10 vp's.
7 points of damage needed - 3bombers/3Cap i chose - i loaded up on those iron bombs. saw a way in through the sams - high at first then low the rest of the way.. and bad luck nailed me. Ambushed by more Sams on ingress - i chose not to discard the AtG weapons since i needed them on target - and everyone got through - except Banzai! Now i'm down to 2 bombers. Then the event came up: +2 armor to site - so now its 9pts!!
Needless to say i failed the mission - thus losing 2Vps and falling to a dismal 4Vps at the conflict's end.



Veldor -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/15/2007 6:33:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jureidinim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor

I've only played Iraq and North Korea thus far but have to say North Korea seems at least 3 times easier due to the availability of long range AA missles and longer range ATG/entry level smart bombs etc. I seem to have much more trouble with air superiority in Iraq especially in the 9 day variety.

Has anyone else experienced similar results and/or how do the other campaigns compare?


Just finished a 6 day campaign in Iraq (Average difficulty) and I agree with you - much more difficult due to the lack of the longer range weapons - by lack i mean you have to "pay" S.O. points to get it. So bombers are forced now to use the iron bombs with the zero range - which means having to fly into more SAMs and MIGs.

I'm thinking too that the shorter campaigns in themselves could be more difficult, as you do not have the time to progress far down the campaign tracks (Intel/Intra/Recon/Radar), and so you are *almost* facing the same amount of enemies throughout the campaign.

Interesting last day of the Iraq conflict:
I was at 6 VP's (sucky i know [:D]) and i went for the 4 VP WMD base to try for the rating of "Good" = 10 vp's.
7 points of damage needed - 3bombers/3Cap i chose - i loaded up on those iron bombs. saw a way in through the sams - high at first then low the rest of the way.. and bad luck nailed me. Ambushed by more Sams on ingress - i chose not to discard the AtG weapons since i needed them on target - and everyone got through - except Banzai! Now i'm down to 2 bombers. Then the event came up: +2 armor to site - so now its 9pts!!
Needless to say i failed the mission - thus losing 2Vps and falling to a dismal 4Vps at the conflict's end.



For Iraq I find the longer campaign harder because I end up enduring so much more stress and pilot losses than I do on other campaigns. Never fails with the ATG event. Either my best bomber gets shot down if I say no or he looses his best ATG weapons either way if i say yes!!



PDiFolco -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/15/2007 4:24:38 PM)

I've played onlmy maybe 4 campaigns, but tend to think that
- More recent campaigns are easier - you have long range accurate missiles and "no-miss" bombs, whereas targets aren't sturdier [:'(]
- Short campaigns are easier - not much stress accumulation, and eventually you can sacrifice good pilots just to grab VPs. [X(]



PDiFolco -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/20/2007 6:39:21 PM)

Bump :  N Korea 2007 campaign (Average level)  is a cakewalk from day 5 on... AIM-120 and Guided Missiles are so powerful you don't even have to leave the entry box. With the "tracks" bonuses you get after 3-4 victories there's not much AA or Bandits left, Targets have 2-3 HP only, and in the last missions I played it ended up with an empty board on turn 3...[:D]

Sure I can crank up the difficulty, but it's still an issue if it's so easy ...



NefariousKoel -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/20/2007 9:49:05 PM)

I'd like to see a much longer campaign set in 80s like Libya. Just longer. [8D]

Korea 1987?



Dan Verssen -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/21/2007 4:55:19 AM)

We're working on an update to increase the difficulty for North Korea. Agreed, the high-tech weapons make it a touch too easy.



PDiFolco -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/21/2007 3:42:56 PM)

Great Dan !
BTW about this one, why is that that I sometimes don't have any AIM-7s to choose - only AIM-120s in limited numbers and lots of AIM-9s ? When going for a large mission it means many pilots won't have any RH missile, that's a real problem, and it's not realistic neither...
In other missions there are a lot of AIM-7s available, so maybe it's a bug ?




IPWinsor -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/21/2007 7:10:55 PM)

Fine if you turn up the difficulty in NK, but also allow a larger AMRAAM inventory. 



StormcloudCreations -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/21/2007 8:24:03 PM)

We'll be doing some overall difficulty adjustments to the game soon too. We do listen to all your suggestions and comments! [8D]



AlvinS -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/22/2007 2:39:21 AM)

When I first viewed the screen shots for the game it seemed so basic. However this is the most fun I have had with a game in a long time. I have many games to choose from but I keep coming back for more of this one. Great job!

I spent 9 years in the Air Force on F-15's, and then came to work for McDonnell Douglas (Boeing) as an instructor on F-15's. Six months ago I transfered to the F-18G program, and of course deal with the normal service rivalry. It will be tought to tell them my Favorite game is Hornet Leader. [;)] Of course it might sell a few more games once they check it out and see for themselves. [:D]



Dan Verssen -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/22/2007 1:45:59 PM)

PDiFolco - The reason for the absence of AIM-7s in the later campaigns is that they have been phased out. Both AIM-7s and AIM-120s were in service for several years, but the navy only uses AIM-9s and AIM-120s now.



Veldor -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/23/2007 12:07:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Verssen

PDiFolco - The reason for the absence of AIM-7s in the later campaigns is that they have been phased out. Both AIM-7s and AIM-120s were in service for several years, but the navy only uses AIM-9s and AIM-120s now.


Does that mean I shouldn't see any AIM-7s in North Korea... See screen shot if so...

[image]local://upfiles/8250/317D295FE307482193FA18F6F7035510.jpg[/image]



Dan Verssen -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/23/2007 3:14:25 AM)

It looks like something got corrupted. Did you use an existing campaign when you updated with a patch? The weapons look like those from Syria.



Veldor -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/23/2007 4:37:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Verssen

It looks like something got corrupted. Did you use an existing campaign when you updated with a patch? The weapons look like those from Syria.


No these were all new missions. I get that weapon selection all the time in North Korea. The AIM-7s actually come in kinda handy. I think pretty much the whole NK mission on ACE I had the above selections.



StormcloudCreations -> RE: Hardest Campaign (10/23/2007 7:19:12 AM)

This has now been fixed.



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