War in Russia (Full Version)

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jumper -> War in Russia (10/15/2007 12:23:12 PM)

Hi all,
In PBEM game stock scen 15, Iīm about to crush the last chinese base (Chunking) in about 2-3 months. It is 12/42 now and next on my list is SSSR. I have no experience with. I have checked the "must read threads" and find some useful hints and tips but extactly what I was looking for. We are still negotiating corresponding HRs with my oponent, but if we will decide that there will be no "early activation", is there any chance I will get the russian air force on ground? If I understand correctly, there will be no air attack on russian bases unless the SSSR is "active". Unfortunately the activation is possible only by crossing the border and ground movement is executed AFTER the air operations, right? And next day all russian fighters will be on 90% CAP.. (we are playing 1day/turn) How is it with naval bombarment? If I send my BBs to bombard Vladivostock, will they trigger the Russians, so during the day phase my bombers could take off to bomb the hell out of them?

And last but not least, if any of you have any experience with this campaign and could offer some house rules which should be implemented, I would be very thankful, because frankly said - I have no idea what I can expect.. I want to allow him to use US air groups or troops (if he will be able to get them there), but also want to limit him somehow. Donīt want to see 500 B-24 plastering HI the day after my first unit crossed the border.
We have decided to start this campaign mostly for fun and to have some action, because my oponent 2 months ago lost all his CVs and the only allied ship on the map, able to carry planes, is CVE Long Island. I have northern Australia and whole India except Karachi and Malir in my hands. For allies it means they are unable to attack me anywhere until they will have some decent CV fleet again to cover their landings again. And it will take at least 6-8 months. During this period it would be pretty boring "sitzkrieg" so we have dicided to test the russians. We both are well aware that SSSR is doomed against joined forces of CEA and KA (well, at least if I donīt scr*w something very badly, but I consider this force is nearly stupid-proof"), but it should provide with fun for a few months. And my oponent certainly hope to atritt my air force before Allies will be back in the game.. [;)]



RUPD3658 -> RE: War in Russia (10/15/2007 7:17:05 PM)

House rules used in The Battle for New Jersey AAR

1. Non Russian Allied AC and LCU can not enter Russia except to recapture a base
2. Japan can not bomb Russian industry (Otherwise they stare in 1 month)
3. Russia is activated for 30 days prior to the start of hostilities so that troops can be moved to allow for a real defense

Even with this it took me several months to take Russia.



jumper -> RE: War in Russia (10/15/2007 11:22:18 PM)

hmmm..
resource or industry bombing is not planned. first I agree it is pretty dirty and second I want it untouched..

still have to think about the others. activation in advance seems fair..



Knavey -> RE: War in Russia (10/16/2007 5:05:22 AM)

Activation in advance is a MUST.  If there is no agreement on that, Russia should be stood down. 

My house rules for Russia.  I am Allied.

1.  Activate Russia immeadiately.  30 days is really not enough time to truely position the Soviet forces but if that is what you have then you must deal with it.  Leave the Soviet planes where they are, but free to move ground forces.  Traditionally, the Soviets managed to lose most of their planes in the German suprise attack.  Since ground units have no where to fall back to, I make an exception to that part of the logic.
2.  Allied planes are allowed in Russia, but they must convert to Far East command and must pay 3x PPs to do so.  You do that be changing them back and forth, and ending on Far East.
3.  Allied ground units are allowed in Russia, but with the same restrictions on PPs as the planes.
4.  We have no house rule on strategic bombing...I have 1 group of 4Es, 1 recon squadron and 1 group of US fighters in the theater, with no intention of moving in anymore.  I have not used them for strategic bombing, but the threat is there.  Note:  I stood these planes down for THREE months prior to deployment, to simulate treaties, acclimation and so forth. 
5.  Subs.  I was going to refuel at Vlad (can't do it) and found you could rearm them there.  Not sure if I am going to use that feature or not.  Fuel I would think would be OK, but weapons are a reach.

Before the naysayers say there is no precedence for this, keep in mind that the US Marine Corp and the US Army had almost 15 thousand troops in and around Vladivostok in the early 1900s fighting the Bolsheviks.  It is not unprecedented.  The Soviet OOB is pretty under reported, and it would be very easy to sweep them without support from abroad. 

My opponent attacked on Aug 18th, 1942 which is when the seige of Stalingrad started and it looked as if the Soviet Union might crumble at that time.  It would not be unreasonable for the Soviets to ask for aid if they were backstabbed (I lost 2/3 of my airforce in the suprise attack which is NOT unreasonable).

My opponent attacked Russia and really did catch me by suprise.  We had activated on turn 1 of the game and so I had moved my ground forces where they needed to go, but pretty much left my airforce alone.  He plastered it the first turn, and has gained the upper hand in the air.

So far we are both happy with the system we have setup, but you need to agree on something because the USSR is woefully underrepresented in its OOBs in the stock game and without house rules, it is a very unfair fight.



marky -> RE: War in Russia (10/16/2007 10:56:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RUPD3658

House rules used in The Battle for New Jersey AAR

1. Non Russian Allied AC and LCU can not enter Russia except to recapture a base
2. Japan can not bomb Russian industry (Otherwise they stare in 1 month)
3. Russia is activated for 30 days prior to the start of hostilities so that troops can be moved to allow for a real defense

Even with this it took me several months to take Russia.




quote:

ORIGINAL: RUPD3658
2. Japan can not bomb Russian industry (Otherwise they stare in 1 month)
3. Russia is activated for 30 days prior to the start of hostilities so that troops can be moved to allow for a real defense



wtf is this bs?

its called WAR, not happy go lucky funtime. u dont fight wars and battles wen everythings hunky dory

[8|]



marky -> RE: War in Russia (10/16/2007 10:58:43 AM)

bearing that in mind, people that dont wanna fight a war shouldnt play WAR In The Pacific!



marky -> RE: War in Russia (10/16/2007 11:05:06 AM)

The rules Tek and i always go by-

PT Boat TF may have a max of 6 ships in it
ASW TFs cannot exceed 10 ships
No landing troops on non-base hexes
No more than 200 bombers and 250 aircraft total allowed on airbases
Boeing 4 engine aircraft are not allowed to bomb naval targets at any lower than 4,000 feet
No sub invasions
Play a "gentleman's game". If you think it might be gamey, it probably is, so don't do it




jumper -> RE: War in Russia (10/16/2007 1:01:51 PM)

Hi Marky,
sorry, but your posts seems a little bit pointless to me. First you say HRs are bs, then you make proclamation about war and then you post list of HRs you are using, but neither of them fits for Russian campaign.. ?
And btw Russian campaign IS supposed to be FUN. Me and my oponent are well aware that this part of the game is badly modeled and is hardly realistic, but we both want to use some interesting HRs that will correct as much flaws as possible..





Fishbed -> RE: War in Russia (10/16/2007 2:19:44 PM)

quote:

Play a "gentleman's game". If you think it might be gamey, it probably is, so don't do it


If you think it is not gamey to bomb out russian industry and starve Far East command up in a single month because there's nothing like a real supply link to European Russia in the game, well I'd say you and your current opponent may have a misunderstanding when it comes to the meaning of "gamey"...

quote:

wtf is this bs?

And thanks not to call other people (in-topic) contribution something you wouldn't like to see yours named after...



bradfordkay -> RE: War in Russia (10/16/2007 6:57:44 PM)

Marky, Russian troops cannot be moved until activation, which occurs in August 1945 or whenever the Japanese player sends troops to a particular hex (I forget which).

SO, if their isn't a house rule that the Japanese player activates Russia at least a certain time before actually invading, then he (the Japanese player) can take advantage of the poor deployments of Russian troops and roll up the defenses within a few days.

Now if you consider this to be fun and realistic, by all means you can talk your opponent into allowing this. Many of us here do not consider this to be realistic, and so that house rule evolved.



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