Fence sitter (Full Version)

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Skeleton -> Fence sitter (10/21/2007 6:31:41 PM)

Help me here, if you could. I have been watching this title for quite some time, and I am 70% there to buying it, but, my experience with CoG left me cold. I love grand campaigns, love AGEOD's AACW, but what has me tempted by this title is the tactical aspect. I want huge games that take time to play. I would love to have the "grand" aspect tied to a big, strategic map with the ability to fight individual battles and make a difference. As I said I love AGEOD period, I just wish the combat was a bit more immersive. Is this title for me? Any and all input would be most welcome, thank you in advance.



moose1999 -> RE: Fence sitter (10/21/2007 7:03:51 PM)

quote:

...the "grand" aspect tied to a big, strategic map with the ability to fight individual battles and make a difference.


This is exactly what FOF is all about. [:)]
If you found COG a little lacking, don't be afraid to buy FOF.
FOF is a huge improvement on COG - two different games in my opinion.
Especially the detailed combat has evolved enormously, both in AI and graphics.
The grand campaign experience is a completely different one from COG. Very satisfying, with lots of details to stick your nose in and none of it seems superflouos.
And if you're not into grognard-level management, you can adjust the rules accordingly.
Don't like that your units suffer attrition? Just cancel that rule.
Don't like to worry about politics (unhappy governors, foreign policy...), well just turn it off.
And, as I said, the well-balanced combination between the strategic level and the detailed battles, is what makes this game really stand out compared to any other serious strategy titles out there.
So, that should be your last 30%.
Now, go out and buy it... [;)]



Skeleton -> RE: Fence sitter (10/21/2007 7:32:41 PM)

Okay, almost there!  I don't necessarily want WiTP long, but how long can a soltaire game go?  A couple of months?  Oh, last, but not least, how thick and good is the manual??



Walloc -> RE: Fence sitter (10/21/2007 7:39:23 PM)

Manual is 200 pages and pretty deep. Ofc there has been patches since the manual was made so u have to read the readme's in the patches to get all the info.
Well IMO solitary campaigns isnt that long. Not close to WITP. I assume from ur posts that u wana play out ur battles as detailed battles. That ofc adds length. Still as i became proficient in the system i could finnish up a campaign in a few days time if i played consistanly. Maybe a week or so if not so consistantly. Consistanly is here ofc subjective, but that would mean at leased a number of hours a day in my case.


Kind regards,

Rasmus



LarryP -> RE: Fence sitter (10/21/2007 7:40:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus the leper

but, my experience with CoG left me cold.

I want huge games that take time to play. I would love to have the "grand" aspect tied to a big, strategic map with the ability to fight individual battles and make a difference.


What about CoG did you not like? By the way, Matrix is doing an expansion for that now. See the link below:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=1592876

If it's a "grand" aspect tied to a big strategic map you want, then you just described FoF pretty well! The Detailed battles will give you exactly that. The Civil War atmosphere is recreated better than AACW by far. I have both games and find no fault with either. However, I have been playing FoF much more because of this atmosphere it has. It's an excellent game. [:)]



Gil R. -> RE: Fence sitter (10/21/2007 7:51:56 PM)

Marcus,
The length of time you play depends on how often you fight out the detailed battles. If one never uses that option, it might take 20 hours or so to finish, especially if one plays a more basic game that doesn't require tracking supply, replacement troops, etc. But if you fight out EVERY battle, it could take far longer.



moose1999 -> RE: Fence sitter (10/21/2007 10:25:16 PM)

My games usually take VERY long.
But I like to take my time, going over everything, fighting every battle, hand out flags and rename units, study unit and battle histories, ponder over strategies etc, etc...
And, of course, I play with everything on rule-wise, so there's a lot to study if you want to.
I can easily make a game last a month. But then again, I take my time and I don't necessarily play every day.
Game-length with FOF is very subjective, I think. Depends on what you want to do with the game (and you can do a lot of things!).



Johnus -> RE: Fence sitter (10/21/2007 10:39:44 PM)

Marcus:

I have been playing FOF since it first came out. From your posts, I am concluding that this is exactly the game for which you are looking. You will not be disappointed.



Johnus -> RE: Fence sitter (10/21/2007 10:41:21 PM)

Marcus:

Why "the leper" ??  Nothing contagious over the internet I trust.



Skeleton -> RE: Fence sitter (10/21/2007 11:33:47 PM)

No, nothing contagious. It is more a reflection of my personality and disposition, sadly enough! Thank you all for making my decision that much easier, I am going to break down and get it. I love the idea of having both levels playable, very unique and much needed. CoG, just left me feeling lost, for lack of a better term. The economic aspect of that game did nothing for me. I also like the idea of having a choice in complexity, not being overwhelmed and frustrated. What are turns lengths, a week, a month, two weeks? How is naval combat handled? How is the A.I.? Sorry for piling more on, but with so many great games out and coming out, I just want to be sure. For what it is worth, as I said, I love AGEOD's AACW (even with the slight bit of frustration with the combat), love Guns of August, love TOAW (though the lack of a decent A.I. for the big scenarios is a downer) and love/hate WiTP.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Fence sitter (10/21/2007 11:41:24 PM)

Marcus,

I think you'll love it - make sure you grab the latest update though, each update has improved the game pretty significantly. The AI will generally eat a novice player's lunch and is quite challenging even at default levels for experienced players. Elite players will of course beat it, but what else is new?

Regards,

- Erik



Skeleton -> RE: Fence sitter (10/22/2007 3:15:28 AM)

Done! I took the plunge and wish to thank you all for information. Correct me if I am wrong, but this was the first title that contained your new physical manual policy, correct? Please say yes, these old, tired eyes could not bear the thought of 200 pages of a PDF!



Gil R. -> RE: Fence sitter (10/22/2007 3:25:01 AM)

Yes.



Walloc -> RE: Fence sitter (10/22/2007 4:59:14 AM)

Well actually the PDF manual is 250 pages. The appendix isnt in the printed version cuz of limitations in printing as i understod it. Those 50 pages arent in any way necesarry for the understanding of the game but if u wana go deep into the workings(read formulars and such) of the game u will have to read the appendix in the PDF format.


Kind regards,

Rasmus



jkBluesman -> RE: Fence sitter (10/22/2007 10:46:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus the leper

Please say yes, these old, tired eyes could not bear the thought of 200 pages of a PDF!


If these tired eyes are awake enough to read texts on websites, you might want to check some of the AAR's which will help you to understand how the game works.



Skeleton -> RE: Fence sitter (10/27/2007 5:59:59 PM)

Just wanted to pop back in and say this was a great purchase. I am really pleased that I got this game and it was exactly what I was looking for. Job well done, I tip my hat to the Developers! One question, was there any thought put toward making the strategic map hexes instead of territories? Again, thank you for a great game.



ericbabe -> RE: Fence sitter (10/27/2007 6:24:38 PM)

Thanks for the kind words.

With the wego engine (i.e., both players make simultaneous plans), the game doesn't work well when there are too many movement areas at the strategic level. We tested this with our Napoleonic game, for which we at first had many more provinces. We contemplated adding complicated contingency-move and reaction-move rules, but in the end it seemed simpler just to keep the rules as they were and remove many of the movement areas.

Now we have been contemplating doing a strategic-level game entirely with our detailed combat system (1 hex = 5 miles, or some such scale)... but I'm not sure that engine would use the detailed combat system or not.





moose1999 -> RE: Fence sitter (10/28/2007 6:40:20 PM)

Always interesting to hear of your plans for the future!
But please don't throw away the true strength of this game series which lies in the combination of a strategic level and detailed combat. This is what really makes your games special and creates the wonderfully engrossing gameplay that they have.
If you throw away the two-level gameplay and go with a one-level hex-based concept instead, well, in my eyes you would loose a lot of the dynamics that makes your two current games so engrossing. Although I'm sure you would make a great game anyhow.
There are already a lot of one dimensional hex-based strategic games out there, and though they can be very entertaining, none of them comes close to supplying the satisfying gaming experience your two-dimensional game engine does.



B/snafu -> RE: Fence sitter (10/29/2007 2:06:53 AM)

I was a fence sitter myself--was looking to start into the civil war period but was unsure which one to start with. Looked at Ageod's title & Hps's titles but after reading the FoF forums here-this seemed to be what I was looking for. D/l'd about a week ago to jump in. All I can say is an excellent peice of work WCS. Playing right now with advanced game options except for "advanced supply" unchecked & only doing quick battles & instant battles currently. Reading up in the manual to be able to get into the detailed battle aspect soon. The amount of detail & options----building & arranging your armies, assigning & promoting generals, outfitting Bde's w/new weapons & attributes plus the "civ" like aspect of the econonomy & politics is what made it for me. heck I even d/l'd the flag mod & started assigning flags to all my armies, div, & bde's. The general & unit Bio's are a nice touch also. Getting this game actually made me gain interest in picking up on civil war reading again. Currently almost finished w/ the first volume of shelby Footes collection as I go along in my game. I'm new to the civil war period but this system is [&o]



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