CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (Full Version)

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MarkShot -> CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/25/2007 12:42:19 AM)

CAW/CCAW has been my first operational game of naval warfare. Prior to CAW/CCAW, I have owned more tactical games: AOD, SH1, SH2, SH3, SC, and DW.

After getting CAW/CCAW and looking for greater depth, I acquire Harpoon3 (version 3.8.0 and 3.6.3). Harpoon documentation and strategy guides do a fairly good job of talking about naval missions and combat considerations. But I still wasn't satisfied. So, I bought a professional book on operational naval combat.

Fleet Tactics and Coastal Combat by Capt. USN Wayne P. Hughes (retired)

http://www.amazon.com/Fleet-Tactics-Coastal-Combat-Hughes/dp/1557503923/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-3675089-9319628?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193262054&sr=8-1

This book is widely regarded as the definitive work concerning modern operational naval warfare.

This has given me chance to revisit CAW/CCAW and ask what should this game be modeling.

First, two key principles among others of naval warfare are made in this book:

(1) Strike effectively first.

(2) Ships should not fight forts

To discuss:

(1) Unlike in land warfare where defensive preparations (fortifications and defense in depth) can extract a very heavy toll on an attacker. Such does not really exist for blue water engagements. Thus, the attacker (who attacks first and effectively) has a much greater advantage than in land combat. CAW/CCAW: For the carriers, this game does model this fairly well.

(2) Land fortifications are almost invariably more robust than ships. Just a few hits can sink a ship, but hundreds of hits may be necessary to silence a fort. So, in brown water operations, the naval commander should rely on maneuver when faced with fixed fortfications or should seek with conjunction of other services like marines to outflank forts. The reality is that most naval struggles are focused upon events upon land. Thus, historically most engagements have been brown water. Brown water engagements often puts one side in the difficult position of defending a beachhead/supply line while the enemy fleet is only concerned with fleet elimination. Both the USN and IJN faced these issues as each marched across the Pacific and its islands. Only late in the war was the USN so powerful that it could go head to head with Japanese land based airfields. Despite this warning of forts. Land based bombers usually performed poorly against warships, but much better against merchant shipping. CAW/CCAW: The game does capture some of the dilemma brown water operations with the objective structure, but so much with risk and predictability of operations in combat.

Second, we have the some discrete models of naval combat for WWII:

(1) Battleships and big guns: Generally when the big ships faced off (in daylight), the ideal situation achieved through maneuver was capping the T. Meaning bringing all your firepower to bear against a limited amount of the enemy's. Effectively, the enemy's own ships blocked his ability to use all his guns. Unlike in land combat, naval warfare gains nothing by maintaining a reserve. Naval warfare emphasizes bringing maximum fire power to bear. Capping the T is somewhat analogous to land combats defeating an enemy in detail. CAW/CCAW: The game provides no opportunity for maneuver and change of formations.

(2) In the absence of capping the T, ships were formed into columns which would exchange fire at range. In this model, ships tended to degrade gradually under a number of hits. A battleship might be fully reduced in about 20 minutes of action. Small advantages in striking power or staying power or starting numbers could ultimately have a huge impact on the outcome. Effectively in this model of combat, there are cummulative affects (like compounding interest) that operate in a non-linear fashion. Later in the war, radar afforded the USN a significant operational and tactical advantage of the IJN of which the USN did not fully realize due to the newness of the technology. CAW/CCAW: Some of this appears to be capture in the basic surface combat model. However, mathematical testing of values and results would be needed to see if true naval operational model is represented. It is not clear radar modeling, plays any role in the game.

(3) There is also torpedo warfare which was precursor in some regards to airstrikes and missile strikes. This is where salvos are fired against the enemy (also known as pulse oriented warfare). The weapon involved is so lethal that only a few hits are needed to kill. Furthermore, the launching platform may potentially kill well in excess of its own weight and size of the enemy. The side that fires its torpedo salvo first (especially if the enemy is in columns for guns) and then rotates to minimize hull form for counter-fire of torpedos will devastate an enemy. Initially, a lot of these type of engagements took place at night with Japanese doing even better than mathematically predicted due to their "long lance" torpedos. Later the USN began to master these tactics when combined with the night vision of radar to close and strike unexpectedly. Such night attacks should never use guns, since they give away the presence of the attacker. CAW/CCAW: Simply not modeled.

(4) There is carrier airstrikes. Airstrikes were the precursor to today's ASM cruise missile warfare. This is also a form of pulse warfare. The carrier striking first had a tremendous advantage and it might only take a few hits to kill a target. Early on offense was clearly dominent and AA and CAP defenses provided little protection. Thus, a mininimal separation of carriers (20nm) made sense, since it still allowed for the massing of air wings, but greatly cut down on the chance of a single strike finding and taking out multiple carriers. However, later on in the war (for the USN), radar air raid detection and forming of CAPs, increased AA emplacements, radar fire control of AA, and radar proximity fuses made fleet defenses against air attacks much more potent. In the late war, the ratio of fighters to strike aircraft increased aboard USN carriers. Thus, later in the war, for the USN combining the defenses by massing carriers became practical and common. Of course, as the war dragged on, the IJN lacked the potent air strike power which they had once had. CAW/CCAW: The game clearly captures the early war years of the attacker's advantage and possibly dispersion of forces. It is not clear whether the game captures the late war years of superior air defenses and massing of carriers.

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Well, after so many learned discussions in this forum, I hope I have finally contributed something to theoretical discussion. Enjoy!




MarkShot -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/25/2007 12:50:14 AM)

I should point out one other aspect of pulse warfare:

(5) Defenses are typically defeated by having an attack overwhelm the defense with sheer numbers. The defender might have SAM, CIWs, and/or CAP. CAW/CCAW: The game does allow for coordinating strikes from one carrier. With a little work, one coordinating striking times across multiple carriers. However, it is not clear to what extent strikes from multiple carriers overwhelming CAPs and AA is modeled.




Joe D. -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/25/2007 8:36:18 PM)

I'm surprised this was your 1st Op naval game as I assumed almost everyone had played either UV/WitP, or just gave up on them .

I've been using Shattered Sword to selectively adjust the Midway scenario w/the CaW editor, which is remarkably easy to use. But as luck seems to play a big part in this CaW, I've had mixed results.

The makers of CaW rightly consider it a naval recreation, not a sim; so I don't think much of what you (intelligently) said will apply here.

Now if and when Carrier Force comes out, that may apply more to your post as surface combat and other naval strats don't model well in a game geared for CV action.




MarkShot -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/25/2007 9:25:43 PM)

My progression of warfare understanding has been:

youth - 2001: Exclusively air combat; more tactical than strategic --- I was a prop-head

2000-2007: Tactical and operational ground combat. I started with CM and learned a lot. Then, I moved on to operational warfare and joined the Panther Games team.

2007: I had some sub games going back a ways and understood WWII commerce raiding, but not so much nuke blue water tactics until more recently. This is my year to get up to speed on naval warfare.

CAW/CCAW captures well (as you say chance): A key aspect of pulse warfare with big expensive platforms is that the outcomes are very unstable. You cannot look at initial OOBs and infer what the outcome will be. Effective first strikes are everything. This is due the fact that single platform can cause damage that is totally disproportionate to its own size. Both the USN and IJN assumed that with a surprise attack that a single air wing could kill three carriers. Both past and present, there was a carry over in gun/battleship thinking in that concentration of fire power was the proper strategic trend as opposed to dispersion of fire power. For battleships, this does work as shown by operational equations, but this does not work for pulse warfare (torpedo salvos, air strikes, ASM misiles).




Joe D. -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/26/2007 2:10:09 AM)

My gaming life history is the reverse of yours; I'm experimenting w/Il series -- keep crashing on landings -- and MS CFS3. One of my first games was HttR, and currently own the CM anthology.




MarkShot -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/26/2007 2:21:54 AM)

Aging ended my flying career playing H2H online. Thus, I now play slower paced more cerebral games.

My last real serious flying was online back in 2001 with EAW. I was one of the top players and had 100 page guide to just H2H competition known as "Shoot to Kill/European Air War".

I was a strong advocate of "Energy Fighting". In a nutshell, every maneuver I made was intended to improve my energy state while degrading my opponents. Sometimes, it was purely based on maneuver and execution; sometimes, I exploited psychology and gave my opponent enough of a hint of a shot that he p*ss*d away his energy. In the end, I would cash in that E advantage for a being to load up more Gs and turn tighter giving me the lead tracking shot needed to make the kill.

It was great fun. Enjoy it!




MarkShot -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/26/2007 2:38:20 AM)

Joe,

A final version of my guide as a downloadable PDF is here:

http://eaw.wikispaces.com/Shoot+To+Kill+from+MarkShot

Some find utility in it for other prop sims like IL-2.




Joe D. -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/26/2007 6:16:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

... I was a strong advocate of "Energy Fighting". In a nutshell, every maneuver I made was intended to improve my energy state while degrading my opponents ...


Don't know if you ever caught that air combat sim on the History Channel, but there was an Israeli air ace that did exactly that; his fellow pilots said he had an innate sense of "energy" and how to exploit it.

In air engagements in CFS3, I'm either too low, or too high, after which I often over shoot my AI opponent in a dive. Also got caught flat-footed as Bf 109s did dives, and then used that energy to climb away from my Thunderbolt. But I did learn to lead my target w/short bursts at realistic ammo levels.

Not familiar w/Wickispace; what link do I hit to see something beside the bomber on the page?




MarkShot -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/26/2007 6:38:03 AM)

Here click on this link to download my guide:

http://www.raf-roy.com/share/dumoulin/MarkShot/Shoot-To-Kill.zip

I think I had CSF1 and CSF2. I recall that in CSF2, there wasn't much energy lost with high G (high wing loading turns). Therefore, energy fighting doctrine tended not to work very well. Instead acute maneuvers (meaning sharp maneuvers while intentionally dumping energy to gain an angular advantage) worked quite well. Since doing such a thing in EAW would leave you in an energy hole which the crafty opponent could then exploit and you would forever be caught trying to catch up. Typically, you know if you have been placed in an energy hole if:

(1) Your opponent is able to maintain his position on your six. As you maneuver at corner speed and try to lose him, you notice he tends to rise above you in the turns. This means that he is holding an energy advantage and turning in the vertical (high yo-yo) above you in order to conserve it by not having to pull hard in the turn.

(2) You are on you opponent's six, but you cannot get the lead pursuit necessary for a deflections shot. Effectively, you a trapped in lag pursuit. You don't have a sufficient energy advantage necessary to put the extra Gs necessary to get inside his turn for the shot.

Once again, in a sim which models energy loss poorly, then fights will be much more oriented towards abrupt acute radical maneuvers. In a sim which models energy loss well, skilled opponents will often fight and turn in the vertical pulling the minimal number of Gs necessary (to reduce energy bleed) and be on or close to stall speeds. Corner speed turns will only be seen to escape being lined up for a tracking shot or to make such a tracking shot.

Enjoy my guide!




MarkShot -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/27/2007 2:13:49 AM)

Joe,

Did you get my guide? If so, anything useful in there for you? I realize that in these days of the Web, 100+ pages of text without a single picture is not easy on the reader.

Well, at least, I rectified that in my guides to HTTR and COTA. :)




Joe D. -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/27/2007 5:09:39 AM)

As I only have dial-up at home, I'm going to download it at work w/broadband.

Most of the flying in MCF3 is done w/o "energy," and I suspect the same is true for the IL series. But I'm sure your guide is worth a look.

I trust you have some headings w/all that text!




MarkShot -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/27/2007 7:43:14 AM)

Since it is only text, it is only 500K anyway. Quite small; even by dial up standards.




Joe D. -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/27/2007 4:53:23 PM)

Yes, > 600 kbs of a zipped pdf; didn't take long at all, even for dial-up.

First, thanks for your judicious use of headings, subheads and white space. Word processing is sometimes a lost art.

So Microprose made EAW; sounds too realistic for them.

Like the Spitfire, huh; high performance planes are too responsive for my tastes; I prefer to fly a Thunderbolt or a Hurricane as these planes are more forgiving and less twitchy. I always calibrate my joystick, though that doesn't always help.

Comparing ammo w/energy, or dog fighting w/chess, is beyond the flight sims I have. My realism settings in MCF3 are currently at 75% as I autostart my engine and autocontrol my rudder -- though I did notice that both your guide and the MCF3 manual suggests using the rudder to rake your opponent from left to right. I also give my ammo more punch; I need this since edge I use realistic ammo levels and need more effective hits.

Further, MCF3 also incorporates air support roles, which are key to moving fronts and winning the game. So it's not just fighting in the air, but straffing troops and bombing ships; you can pick these missions from a drop-down menu.

As you can imagine, target fixation is more pronounced in this game; I usually attack so low that my plane gets spun around after a bomb run, so I can't use ordnance more powerful than 500 lbs.

Does anyone still play EAW?

Anyway, awaiting the next CaW patch; hoping for more new scenarios, and not just variations on the ones we already have. It's not a bad game; it has a good editor and a great interface. But more can and needs to be done.





MarkShot -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/27/2007 5:47:42 PM)

Joe,

The community moved from www.combatsim.com to www.simhq.com in 2000 when the former stopped being a free site and became fee based during the Web crunch of 2000.

As far as I know, EAW lives both in single player and multi-player. Microprose/Hasbro made the source code available like quite a few other old classics like MA & BOB. Even before that, there was move towards modding EAW for ever increasing realism/challenge in online play.

Go check out www.simhq.com of find out more.

I am not sure of where flight sims are these days. I never made the big jump over to IL/2 which began even when just the demo had been released.

I remember first seeing EAW in 1998 and staying up all night with it. It was in a class by itself when it was released. Until that time, other games offered at most 16 planes in the air in a mission. EAW for the first time, gave us huge formations of hundreds of plane. All of a sudden, the true enormity and grandeur of the air war over Europe came to life.

Of course, H2H was great, but even SP was a lot of fun. I think the only short coming the game had was a dynamic campaign engine with daily missions that effectively were the same day after day despite being randomly generated. For that, Rowan's BOB did a much better job of spicing air combat and command.

Oh, how I do miss flying. Five years or more ago, I used to try flying/racing every few months again. I would hurt my joints, give it up and feel depressed; then try again in a few months. I have long ago stopped trying and just play games that are slow only need a mouse instead.

At least, the legacy of my guides lives on. :)




Joe D. -> RE: CAW/CCAW as a model naval operational warfare? (10/27/2007 7:24:27 PM)

Arthitis? Sorry if that's the case.

I was thinking Flight Sim X as an option; it's non-military maneuvers aren't as hard on your hands, but that game might be too tame for you after being "blooded" over Europe.

Well, you can always do what most warriors do when their flying days are over; command a carrier fleet in CaW!




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