RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (Full Version)

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mlees -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/20/2007 9:44:25 PM)

I was wondering if you could use those airfields in Luzon to hitting Japanese shipping heading from DEI back to Japan, and troops from Japan/China to India.

Downgrade those B17 units that start in the PI (if they are still there) to twin engined stuff, so you can fly them at lower than 15k feet to attack shipping.

Do you have enough supplies in the PI to support something like that?

If Manila is a lv9 port, you can cycle your subs on minelaying missions a lot faster than going to OZ or Pearl.



mlees -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/20/2007 9:44:38 PM)

* deleted double post *



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/20/2007 10:37:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

I was wondering if you could use those airfields in Luzon to hitting Japanese shipping heading from DEI back to Japan, and troops from Japan/China to India.

Downgrade those B17 units that start in the PI (if they are still there) to twin engined stuff, so you can fly them at lower than 15k feet to attack shipping.

Do you have enough supplies in the PI to support something like that?

If Manila is a lv9 port, you can cycle your subs on minelaying missions a lot faster than going to OZ or Pearl.


Those B17s are now based in India, and have suffered extreme losses. However i'm already planning to move 50 or so B25s to Luzon, along with 70 fighters as soon as he estabilish himself into India and as soon as the operations in the Pacific will start. i wanna try to start at the same time 3 different operations, so opening 3 different theatres at the same time (Luzon,Marshalls and Darwin).
There are at Luzon now nearly 35k supplies. Not so much but enough to keep on recieving replacements and building up forts.
Anyway, Manila is still 6/3 port/AF. I didn't upgrade it, as long as i've been concentrating on building forts there.
I really consider a mistake not to have kept suppressed Manila and Clark till now. Now, if i bunker myself to Manila with 2000 AVs and some 6 forts how many AVs will he need to kick me out? 8000? considering the urban hex probably even more...



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/20/2007 11:29:23 PM)

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[image]local://upfiles/4162/0C5022AD537C450BA1665D7644743A37.jpg[/image]



cantona2 -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/20/2007 11:37:04 PM)

Thats going to be a tough nut to crack



hawker -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 12:14:41 AM)

Greetings General
I think that he doing a tragic mistake here,leaving Phillipines intact. You can establish good forts there and he can forget to conquer Phillipines at all.
Some people just do,lets say,very doubtful things with japanese forces early in war. But,go for India and leaving PHillipines intact is to ambitious for anyone i think.
He left allied knife point at japanese belly,and he should pay for that.
Japanese lifeline is oil and resource from DEI which going to Japan through Philippines area,japanese lifeline is not India and before someone decides to venture to ANY place as japanese he must secure DEI which includes Phillipines.

He is doing very,lets say doubtful because i dont wanna be rude,things so far and if he keep doing like so far you will probably win in 1942 or early in 1943.



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 12:20:39 AM)

I think he's considered to take India very quickly and then come back to PI once the brits are out of the war.
Problem is that if...IF i manage to keep at least Aden or better Karachi in my hands, he's never going to have the numbers of divisions needed for a coming back in the PI. Simple.
Once i've done something similar. In "The Italian Affair 2" against MC i bypassed Luzon and went for Darwin and the rest of DEI. I went back to PI after i managed to secure my southern flank (taking Darwin and Daily Waters) and SRA-DEI, but i left however, for 3 months, 2000 AVs in the PI, bombing each single day Manila and Clark with hundreds of bombers. When i got back they didn't have any supply left...while going for such a great campaign as India (which is not a limited regional campaign like a Darwin one), without securing the PI, is IMHO a mistake...
Oh, well, think it's too early to say anything.We just gotta wait for some 1 or 2 more months and see



String -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 12:29:02 AM)

IF you can figure out a way to get supply to PI then you're all set.

I'd suggest trying small single TF blockade runners every now and then through an area he isn't quite expecting them, from wake island, between HI and Marianas sounds like a good bet, as does through the Banda straits..



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 1:09:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: String

IF you can figure out a way to get supply to PI then you're all set.

I'd suggest trying small single TF blockade runners every now and then through an area he isn't quite expecting them, from wake island, between HI and Marianas sounds like a good bet, as does through the Banda straits..


[;)] Already doing that[8D]



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 8:43:46 AM)

Ok, waiting for Trollelite to come back i've made some tests on the A2A model in the CHS experiemental 160 scenario.
Seems to work better than the normal CHS one.

Taking 27 zeros and 36 oscars at 80 exp, in sweep mission (4 hexes of distance)-heigh 15.000, against 15 P-40Bs and 15 P-40Es, both at 65 exp, -heigh 18.000- the results were these:
1st: kill ratio 3-1 in Japan's favour
2nd:kill ratio 4-1 in Japan's favour
3rd Kill ratio 2.5-1 in Japan's favour

Taking only 36 oscars at 75 exp in sweep mission (4hexes of distance) against 24 Hurricanes at 65 exp the kill ratio is 2-1 in Allies' favour. 15.000 ft both
Taking only 27 zeros at 80 exp in sweep mission (4hexes of distance) against 24 hurricanes at 65 exp the kill ratio is 3-1 in Japan's favour. 15000 ft both

So it seems that the allies could stand the fight, at least with some decent exp (65) against crack oscars, while against crack zeros, if numbers are equal, the result is obviously in Japan's favour.

However seems that the Hurricanes do better than both the P-40 models, probably due to their more mvr.






Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 12:28:54 PM)

Below you can see two interesting screenshots.
My top pilots are those of the american 21st Fighter group, with P-40Es. These guys were the heroes of the first assault on Colombo, when the KB lost nearly 80 of its crack pilots.
Altough many of them survived during the following days of fighting, their planes were in so bad conditions that they had to be pulled back to Bangalore for some R&R.
This group is supposed to remain in India, while the AVG, which till now hadn't do anything remarkable, will be moved to China first, then to Luzon.

In the other screenshot you can see the details of Aden Base force. As you can see it's a tough nut to crack even on its own, considering the forts, the experience, the naval guns and the overall strenght, both in terms of fighting men and guns (AA,Arty and CD guns). Considering that this unit will be supported by 2 AA units and a full experienced AIF division in the next 7 days i really think Aden cannot be taken by a japanese coup-de-main. Not at this stage however.

[image]local://upfiles/4162/E636F942AEA04BEEBA58C954DB01E0EB.jpg[/image]



Jim D Burns -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 1:06:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
In the other screenshot you can see the details of Aden Base force.


I don’t want to be a killjoy, but if KB flies a couple of port strikes after it closes the airfield, those few 16in CD guns will be disabled and then 1 or 2 big BB bombardment groups will start to destroy them.

Also this unit is effectively just a division equivalent, so once the 7 AIF arrives you’ll have 2 divisions defending the base. A tough nut to crack for sure, but not an insurmountable obstacle if he brings the entire Singapore force there.

I personally don’t think he’ll try for the coup de main without taking western India first, but I may be wrong. Also given the single mindedness of your opponents attack on India (he decided to attack well in advance of your game), I’d say he already knows exactly what he’ll face and when.

So chances are if he does try the coup de main, he’s already tested it and knows what it would take to pull off.

Jim




Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 1:17:12 PM)

But Jim, first of all he doesn't know wether i sent or not the 18th UK division to Aden. For what he knows at Aden there could be at least 1 more division by now. Secondly if he doesn't have any port in western india he won't be able to bombard Aden with his BBs. Or, better to say, he will have only 1 try. Only 1 run. With the risk of facing the RN there (meaning 2 BBs,1BC, 2 CVs, 10 CA/CLs plus some 8 DDs). Yes it's true that the KB is allmighty, but...i do not know...it seems really too risky, too much for him to handle such a thing.
It's also true what you say that he has probably made some tests before...so...mmmm....



cantona2 -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 1:43:59 PM)

Apologies if this has been addressed in your HR's, but in CHS, arent the sea lanes leading to Aden out of bounds for the Jap player. I was under the impression that AB used Aden to represent bases off theatre in South Africa and so on.

Like i said this issue may have already been addressed, if so apologies.

As an aside how does FLT Kershaw in your screenie above have 2 kills if he has 0 missions flown?



jumper -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 2:47:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

As an aside how does FLT Kershaw in your screenie above have 2 kills if he has 0 missions flown?


Flying CAP is not counted as mission IIRC..



Elladan -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 3:06:43 PM)

quote:

I really consider a mistake not to have kept suppressed Manila and Clark till now. Now, if i bunker myself to Manila with 2000 AVs and some 6 forts how many AVs will he need to kick me out? 8000? considering the urban hex probably even more...

Provided your forces are supplied he will need at least (2000 AV x2 forts x4 urban) 16000 AV for 1:1 attack. Even counting differences in unit experience and ground support by bombers it's mission impossible for Japan. Even worse if you can get level 9 forts.



Andrew Brown -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 3:33:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

Apologies if this has been addressed in your HR's, but in CHS, arent the sea lanes leading to Aden out of bounds for the Jap player. I was under the impression that AB used Aden to represent bases off theatre in South Africa and so on.


That is correct. As I mentioned above though, I never added this to the suggested CHS house rules, which I should have done.

This is also why I put such a strong base force at Aden - to discourage Japanese players from attacking a base they should not be attacking in the first place.

I also forgot to mention - I gave Aden another trick up its sleeve for the same reason. It is an urban hex.

Andrew



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 4:49:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jumper


quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

As an aside how does FLT Kershaw in your screenie above have 2 kills if he has 0 missions flown?


Flying CAP is not counted as mission IIRC..


Yes, i bet those 2 kills were gained against Jakes on naval search mission. I've shot down a number of them at the first days of the invasion of Tric.



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 4:51:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elladan

quote:

I really consider a mistake not to have kept suppressed Manila and Clark till now. Now, if i bunker myself to Manila with 2000 AVs and some 6 forts how many AVs will he need to kick me out? 8000? considering the urban hex probably even more...

Provided your forces are supplied he will need at least (2000 AV x2 forts x4 urban) 16000 AV for 1:1 attack. Even counting differences in unit experience and ground support by bombers it's mission impossible for Japan. Even worse if you can get level 9 forts.


It all depends on how much supplies will my troops have once they'll be called to do their duty.
However even with 0 supplies it will take a lot to dislodge me from Manila...



String -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 4:52:43 PM)

And you will never run out of supply at Aden.. and you get reinforcements.. and the japs wont have an LBA airfield nearby...

Even taking Chungking, with its everflowing trickle of supplies, is very tough, even while tha japs can concentrate the whole airforce there and pound it from the air with hundreds of bombers.

Aden, with 2 divisions there, is impossible to take.



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 4:53:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

Apologies if this has been addressed in your HR's, but in CHS, arent the sea lanes leading to Aden out of bounds for the Jap player. I was under the impression that AB used Aden to represent bases off theatre in South Africa and so on.


That is correct. As I mentioned above though, I never added this to the suggested CHS house rules, which I should have done.

This is also why I put such a strong base force at Aden - to discourage Japanese players from attacking a base they should not be attacking in the first place.

I also forgot to mention - I gave Aden another trick up its sleeve for the same reason. It is an urban hex.

Andrew



[:D] I didn't notice that!I supposed Aden was a plain terrain hex...well, so far so good![8|]
I think a good HR would be in these cases: Japan cannot attack Aden if India hasn't been all conquered...but that's not the case. We do not have any HR for Aden or for India. My blame not to have asked for something like this.
Anyway i'm still positive[;)]



Elladan -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 5:49:28 PM)

Even without any supplies it's still at least 4000 AV Japanese needed to make it 1:1. A lot of troops that may not be easily spared for such operation. Could you get a Corps HQ to Manila? It would help your defense.



racndoc -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 9:43:41 PM)

Gen. Hoepner.....

You finally convinced me to start contingency planning for an India assault in my game. One question....how was trollelite able to disable your 9.2"" CD guns at Tricomcolee so rapidly?





Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 9:56:27 PM)

First of all: no, there isn't any HQ corp to send to Manila. None available right now.

Adm.: He simply bomb it with BBs once and the 9.2 were gone for good. Was pretty strange indeed. I guess bad dice and rolls and nothing more...

However Adm, if you want my suggestion...go for India, soon, but go first for DH-Dacca area. Then, when his forces will be thrown in, invade Cylon and not vice-versa (IMHO).

Anyway, glad to have made up your mind[:D]



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/21/2007 9:57:39 PM)

Ah, Andrew B.: are u sure Aden is a urban hex? pressing the "1" it shows Aden as a "cd" hex (coastal -desert)....



Andrew Brown -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/22/2007 12:58:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

Ah, Andrew B.: are u sure Aden is a urban hex? pressing the "1" it shows Aden as a "cd" hex (coastal -desert)....


I guess you must be using an older version of my map. I can't remember exactly when I made Aden an urban hex.



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/23/2007 8:29:45 AM)

Andrew, i've downloaded this version from your site not more than 2 months ago....[&:]



Andrew Brown -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/23/2007 11:41:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

Andrew, i've downloaded this version from your site not more than 2 months ago....[&:]


The version 6.3 file (which is an update) definitely has Aden as an Urban hex. That is the latest version of the map data file I have available. I haven't checked the 6.2 version.

Andrew



Gen.Hoepner -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/23/2007 6:37:46 PM)

You're right Andrew. I had the v.6.2...now updated to 6.3 and Aden is a CU hex!:-) Thx

Wonder how this can change things...what happens if he has a different version? which version is going to effect the gameplay? mine or his?



Jim D Burns -> RE: RIDERS ON THE STORM - Hoepner (A) vs. Trollelite(J) (11/23/2007 7:06:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

You're right Andrew. I had the v.6.2...now updated to 6.3 and Aden is a CU hex!:-) Thx

Wonder how this can change things...what happens if he has a different version? which version is going to effect the gameplay? mine or his?


Japan is the dominate player PC, the allies are slaved to the Japanese players settings. And I don't think you can change the database of a scenario once it is started, so changing the map mid-game may cause real trouble for you.

Jim



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