magical trains (Full Version)

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gothfather -> magical trains (11/2/2007 10:16:28 PM)

So how does rail movement work for the ai?

I've just watch the AI rail move 8 units from two hexes that where surrounded by enemy conrolled hexes. It boggles the mind that you can hop on a tran and rail through enemy hexes and then enemy units to arrive at the front to hold shore up the front. Do these trains fly?

Does the game not TRACE the route or does it just care that the starting hex and the ending hex were controlled by the nation using the rail points?

I thought the whole point was to cut off the enemy from supply then destroy them when they weaken.




James Ward -> RE: magical trains (11/2/2007 10:39:14 PM)

I know you don't control a hex for rail purposes the turn you take it in some cases. Was one of the hexes recently captured?




SteveD64 -> RE: magical trains (11/2/2007 10:42:37 PM)

I've never been able to rail out of a pocket.  God knows I've tried.




gothfather -> RE: magical trains (11/2/2007 11:11:06 PM)

They were isolated from the front from the previous orders phase. That was the jan-feb 1915 order phase. I have since done a strat and activation phase and now they magicly move away. So this isn't a case of during the order phase I encircle the two hexes they escape.

If I knew how to take a screen shot and display it here I could show people better heres an attempt at things with out a screenie. G = friendly Germany hex, E = French enemy hex, N luxemburg, the _ are spaces and to be ignored they are not hexes. This is the hex control situation as of jan-feb order phase, BEFORE the resolution phase. That first G on the first line is Paris. The first G on the second line is Epernay. The G of the fourth line is Verdun. The E in the fourth line is the pinch point(this is the hex directly south of Epernay). I take this and the I cut off three hexes. the second hex on line 8 is Nancy. First G in line A is Dijon, The E is Epinal. Please note this is NOT the turn that the french escape.

1 G_G_G
2 _G_E_
3 E_E_N
4 _E_G_
5 E_E_G
6 _G_G_
7 G_G_G
8 _G_G_
9 G_G_G
A _G_E_

The following is after the resolution phase. they run away on the next order phase. Its the first resolution phase of turn mar-apr 1915. They are tapped here fully encircled. There is no gap for them to rail through and yet they do it.

1 G_G_G
2 _G_E_
3 E_E_N
4 _G_G_
5 E_E_G
6 _G_G_
7 G_G_G
8 _G_G_
9 G_G_G
A _G_E_

The second E in line 3 and the second E in line 5, are the two hexes that are cut off and I can rail into the first G in line 4 now. So how are they moving out of the area months latter? Every G on every line I can rail to. So how are they moving troops through hexes that have enemy units? only the second g on line 6 has no german units. but its been under german conrtrol for multiple order phases.

Hopefully the two above illustartions can shed light on what i an refering to.




Franck -> RE: magical trains (11/2/2007 11:31:46 PM)

certainely never did that to me! I usually encircle Verdun before taking it. It does seems as if they are not out of supply tought (wich could be because they are sitting on a city hex. ). I had instance where a hex got like 8 corps in it, and they wouldn't leave... Pretty anoying espescially when the hex is Paris!!!!!! and you are the CP.





James Ward -> RE: magical trains (11/2/2007 11:37:25 PM)

Maybe they disbanded?




gothfather -> RE: magical trains (11/3/2007 12:17:44 AM)

Well they are sitting on the two hexes west of verdun, neither hex is a city hex.

I am positive they didn't dispand because the open front I was pushing towards lyons and Orleans fills up with multiple units across multiple hexes. On a front that had no units. I have 10 units trapped in the two hex just west of verdun. And i have a stack of 6 trapped in an encircled hex just south of Arras. So we are talking 16 units that i have trapped and 1/2 of then escape to shore up the front between Lyons and Orleans. I just don't understand how they are transporting via rail through troops.




gothfather -> RE: magical trains (11/3/2007 1:06:09 AM)

watching the ai pull off the maical rail movement just ruins the game. I went back and surounded the two hexes in question and watch the ai rail out of all three hexes this time. The front just fills up with units and my offensive ends because the ai uses 16 units it shouldn't be able to have access to.

I thought I was being so cleaver racing forward while still keeping these two pockets open until I was on the verge of taking orleans and Lyon. i thought for sure this would crush the French. At best it would cause them to give up as their moral is weak. At worse i thought it would thin their lines so greatly I could break through at a point of my choosing. But those units just shored up their defences so now I have to dig in and let the attrition war set in.





SMK-at-work -> RE: magical trains (11/3/2007 3:14:25 AM)

Are you sure they didn't just die from being out of supply?




gothfather -> RE: magical trains (11/6/2007 7:21:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Are you sure they didn't just die from being out of supply?


I was sure before but i went back and used air support to count every hex to see what the french had before they were encircled and then waited till the next strat phase and recived air support to check the hexes again.

The results are as follows

16 unit behind enemy including 3 HQs
total french units - 23 corp, 6 HQ 3 art 2 cav (total = 34) of the three HQs that were not cut off one was will be cut off and two where in the open with either an art or cavalry unit acting to protect the unit. Their command and control should be totally destroyed.

The front AFTER they use magical train
21 corp, 4 HQ, 2 art 1 cav (total = 28)

Damage done was 2 HQs 1 art & 1 cav and 2 corps. Which is just the units i did from combat without encircleing anyone. If the game actually killed the units for bing in lack of supply the French would be looking at having 1 HQ of which that unit was just cut off from supply (Seperate situation from the previous 3 hexes.)

When you consider the amount of damage I did to their attacking units trying to open the pockets and the fact I caught two HQ in the open with either just a cav unit or art as protection they should have had even more damage done to their HQs. The only units that were eliminated where units I destroyed in combat. The units in the pockets just railed through enemy controlled hexes and through enemy units.

This game went from a must buy to the rubbish heap because of this stupid ability of the ai to rail units when its cut off.




Franck -> RE: magical trains (11/6/2007 8:24:25 PM)

I don't understand about the HQ. But still, your encircelment should have happened on turn one ( as most major offensive against France do. ) and on the second turn France gets 4 corps in Paris, 3 corps in the south, 2 corps in Lyon ( I believe ) and one corp on the French/italian border.




gothfather -> RE: magical trains (11/6/2007 8:48:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Franck

I don't understand about the HQ. But still, your encircelment should have happened on turn one ( as most major offensive against France do. ) and on the second turn France gets 4 corps in Paris, 3 corps in the south, 2 corps in Lyon ( I believe ) and one corp on the French/italian border.


Are you on drugs? have you simply decded to dismiss my problem and not bothered to read my posts?

Jan-feb 1915 is not turn one its after strat phase 4, I think. Thats when i encircled the french units. WE ARE NOT TALKING TURN ONE. DO NOT IMPLY I'M A LIAR IN OTHER THREADS. DO NOT CLAIM AS PROOF THAT I AM IMAGINING THINGS BECAUSE I "FAILED TO SUPPLY A SAVE GAME FILE" A FILE YOU NEVER ASKED FOR. I have the files.

My goal was to get to paris and I did then I waited until i was close to orleans and lyon before closing my pinchers in two areas.

The fact is I deliberetly didnt try to encircle the french right away because i was trying to pull units from the southern boarder between luxemburg and switzerland northward. It worked and then i punched a hole captured verdon and pushed west from there. The hole caused the french to race south again which weakened paris I took it and then I pushed west from the southern hole, while shored up my northern flank. This is over multiple order phases and multiple strat phases. when i was close to Lyons and Orleans I closed the pinchers. AFTER THAT PHASE WAS COMPLETED there were 16 units with three HQ encircled. Then on the next orders phase which is after strat phase 5, they FLY AWAY.





MarkShot -> RE: magical trains (11/6/2007 11:45:41 PM)

Gothfather,

In another thread where you were rude and insulting to me, I tried subtly to point out your poor behavior in a light humorous way and give you a chance to save face by showing a little more courtesy and respect. But for whatever reason, you seem to feel a need to go out of your way to be abrassive and insulting.

You know I may play GOA or I may not. I may find that it has bugs such that it is not worth my time. Either way, there is no reason why any issues I have with the game cannot be intelligently and respectfully discussed here.

I am beta tester for Matrix, but not for this product. So, I am not acquainted with Frank Hunter. In any case, in one of my first posts here which I directly addressed a question to him, I received a thoughtful and extensive reply. In fact, I was suprised to see the developer go into some detail how his planned design did not live up to his expectations in how the AI was realized for the game. Something one would surely say to beta testers in a private forum, but was not really necessary to disclose to the general public.

Well, I am not a forum admin (I am just part of the Matrix family). However, I hope those with admin priviledges offer you the opportunity to be a little more respectful of people or pack your bags. Paying $40-$60/game entitles one to use the software and discuss it and raise issues and get reasonable problems addressed. However, I don't think it entitles you to abuse developers, beta testers, and other customers.

Now, if you want to call me an idiot again, you'll have a lot more cause to this time. :)




gothfather -> RE: magical trains (11/7/2007 8:30:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Gothfather,

In another thread where you were rude and insulting to me, I tried subtly to point out your poor behavior in a light humorous way and give you a chance to save face by showing a little more courtesy and respect. But for whatever reason, you seem to feel a need to go out of your way to be abrassive and insulting.

You know I may play GOA or I may not. I may find that it has bugs such that it is not worth my time. Either way, there is no reason why any issues I have with the game cannot be intelligently and respectfully discussed here.

I am beta tester for Matrix, but not for this product. So, I am not acquainted with Frank Hunter. In any case, in one of my first posts here which I directly addressed a question to him, I received a thoughtful and extensive reply. In fact, I was suprised to see the developer go into some detail how his planned design did not live up to his expectations in how the AI was realized for the game. Something one would surely say to beta testers in a private forum, but was not really necessary to disclose to the general public.

Well, I am not a forum admin (I am just part of the Matrix family). However, I hope those with admin priviledges offer you the opportunity to be a little more respectful of people or pack your bags. Paying $40-$60/game entitles one to use the software and discuss it and raise issues and get reasonable problems addressed. However, I don't think it entitles you to abuse developers, beta testers, and other customers.

Now, if you want to call me an idiot again, you'll have a lot more cause to this time. :)


I said your question was stupid and foolish. I never caled you an idiot. You wanted people to tell you if the game had replayability, but specificly stated you didn't want to install the game specificly invest time into it if it will not be on your hard drive in 5 years. A game that is only a few months old and you want to know if it will be on your hard drive in 5 years. in your own words...
quote:

/snip
So, is this a game I can play for the next few years or am I going to learn it in a few weeks and find the game getting repetitive and uninteresting after a few months of play?

By the way, there is nothing wrong with replayability being limited. For some, if they have fun for a few months, then they got their money's worth. For me however, I got enough excellent games that I am very picky about investing time (I already have the game; received it as a gift) in something if it won't be my hard drive for the next five years.
/snip


How could anyone tell you that? Honestly how could we? or as I stated in a follow up post..

I mean really how could anyone here know if in five years you would still be playing the game? How do we judge that criteria? is any time less than 5 years a failure in your opinion? would 4 years 11 months be too little return. what about 18 months, would it be too little return on your time investment?

As for calling you an idiot, i didn't. i said your question was stupid and foolish. And i know a lot of brilliant people who ask stupid questions. So I think its a rather huge leap to say you are an idiot just because your question is stupid.


You continue to claim I called you an idiot and I'd like to see where I used that wording. I clarified that i was ONLY refering to your question and not your IQ. I was explicit about what i thought was foolish and stupid and that was neither your character or intelligence. I still think your question is stupid. If you feel thats an attack on your person all I can say it is not it is directed at your question yet again. Do you honestly think its reasonable to expect total strangers to be able to tell you if a game they have only had for a few months at most will be on YOUR hard drive in 5 years from now?




jnier -> RE: magical trains (11/7/2007 6:53:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gothfather

How could anyone tell you that? Honestly how could we? or as I stated in a follow up post..

I mean really how could anyone here know if in five years you would still be playing the game? How do we judge that criteria? is any time less than 5 years a failure in your opinion? would 4 years 11 months be too little return. what about 18 months, would it be too little return on your time investment?

As for calling you an idiot, i didn't. i said your question was stupid and foolish. And i know a lot of brilliant people who ask stupid questions. So I think its a rather huge leap to say you are an idiot just because your question is stupid.


You continue to claim I called you an idiot and I'd like to see where I used that wording. I clarified that i was ONLY refering to your question and not your IQ. I was explicit about what i thought was foolish and stupid and that was neither your character or intelligence. I still think your question is stupid. If you feel thats an attack on your person all I can say it is not it is directed at your question yet again. Do you honestly think its reasonable to expect total strangers to be able to tell you if a game they have only had for a few months at most will be on YOUR hard drive in 5 years from now?



I think the bigger question is: Why would you call someone, who just asked a simple question, stupid & foolish? Have some decency.




MarkShot -> RE: magical trains (11/7/2007 10:13:39 PM)

No, you didn't directly call me an idiot. However, you invested a lot of effort in qualifying my question as being "stupid". A question that for most seemed to be reasonable and was put and phrased very politely and respectfully.

In the absense, of bluntly calling me an idiot, the implication in what you wrote appeared to be quite clear. Just like various other posts which you have made regarding the game and the developer which are degrading and insulting.

As best I can tell, you appear to be a native speaker of English, have good command of language skills, and are an adult and not a child.

I don't know Frank Hunter, but I know many independent game developers. Few if any are rolling in cash. As a beta tester, I have reached the conclusion that those of us who play these games are lucky there are people like Frank Hunter who are so passionate about their hobby that they invest themselves in the dubious undertaking of making these games. Anyone clever enough to develop and program games such as these could probably do much better in some other line of work.

So, I think Frank Hunter deserves a little more respect than the way you are behaving here.

In general, I go out of my way to be polite on public forums, since it is so easy for strangers misinterpret one's writings and meanings. You, on the other hand, put a lot effort into being abbrassive and if not outright insulting people, then leave enough of a suggestion that the reader is naturally led in that direction.

Lastly, I like visiting these game forums and having a friendly discussion about the games and their features. It makes for an interesting way to pass the time especially if you are unable to sit down a play a game at the very moment. I want to continue visiting this forum and others. I don't want to see it become a polluted sewer. It only takes a few to destroy the pleasant atomosphere and discussion that can be had by everyone in a place like this.

Now, I have tried my best not to sling mud with you. If you feel that you must do some injury to Frank Hunter and Matrix Games, then why don't you not make any future purchases, but respectfully leave the rest of us to enjoy this place and discuss GOA. I understand that Frank Hunter has invested years in this game and he deserves some respectful and mature discussion of his work.

Thank you.




gothfather -> RE: magical trains (11/8/2007 5:47:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

No, you didn't directly call me an idiot. However, you invested a lot of effort in qualifying my question as being "stupid". A question that for most seemed to be reasonable and was put and phrased very politely and respectfully.

In the absense, of bluntly calling me an idiot, the implication in what you wrote appeared to be quite clear. Just like various other posts which you have made regarding the game and the developer which are degrading and insulting.

As best I can tell, you appear to be a native speaker of English, have good command of language skills, and are an adult and not a child.

I don't know Frank Hunter, but I know many independent game developers. Few if any are rolling in cash. As a beta tester, I have reached the conclusion that those of us who play these games are lucky there are people like Frank Hunter who are so passionate about their hobby that they invest themselves in the dubious undertaking of making these games. Anyone clever enough to develop and program games such as these could probably do much better in some other line of work.

So, I think Frank Hunter deserves a little more respect than the way you are behaving here.

In general, I go out of my way to be polite on public forums, since it is so easy for strangers misinterpret one's writings and meanings. You, on the other hand, put a lot effort into being abbrassive and if not outright insulting people, then leave enough of a suggestion that the reader is naturally led in that direction.

Lastly, I like visiting these game forums and having a friendly discussion about the games and their features. It makes for an interesting way to pass the time especially if you are unable to sit down a play a game at the very moment. I want to continue visiting this forum and others. I don't want to see it become a polluted sewer. It only takes a few to destroy the pleasant atomosphere and discussion that can be had by everyone in a place like this.

Now, I have tried my best not to sling mud with you. If you feel that you must do some injury to Frank Hunter and Matrix Games, then why don't you not make any future purchases, but respectfully leave the rest of us to enjoy this place and discuss GOA. I understand that Frank Hunter has invested years in this game and he deserves some respectful and mature discussion of his work.

Thank you.



I put the effort in to qualify why your question was foolish to show you that it was purely directed at your question and not at yourself. Its easy to say "no it wasn't directed at you it was your question" yet have no basis to back it up. I put the effort to show you that I did actually view your question as foolish and not yourself. I have stated this multiple times. You continue to try to goad me into it attacking you personally and I continue to try to explain that my comments are not directed at you but specificly at your question.




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