Bazooka and Panther G front armor (Full Version)

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illo -> Bazooka and Panther G front armor (9/12/2000 9:03:00 PM)

I remember reading somewhere that none of PzKpfw-Vg were destroyed by bazooka hit to front hull or front turret armor. Is that true? Last battle against americans(AI) I had one company of PzKpfw-VG. I killed jumbos and shermans in first turns without any losses and my AA shot down few american fighters. I was quite pleased of situation and headed for last objectives. There was few American rifle squad running around(as allways). I stopped my panthers in 5 hex distance and opened fire. I though it was safe. In few minutes half of panthers were burning due to frontal bazooka hits(they shot me from 5hexes with about 50% accuracy and all hits resulted killed Panther) ...strange ehh?



Owl -> (9/13/2000 2:57:00 AM)

I don't have the info right here, but compare the bazooka armor penatration to the Panther front armor. I think the pen. is greater and will therefore likely result in damage if it hits. I've learned some respect for bazooka armed infantry, but not a whole lot. They do hurt when they hit but seem to be inaccurate overall. I try to keep infantry near my tanks to help suppress the bazooka teams or squads which further decreases their likelihood of hitting. That's my 2 cents for what it's worth (hopefully, at least 2 cents...) ------------------ (.) (.) ...V...



BA Evans -> (9/13/2000 10:09:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Owl: I don't have the info right here, but compare the bazooka armor penatration to the Panther front armor...
The question is, is this historically accurate? Was the bazooka incapable of penetrating the front armor of the Panther? If so, then some of the values will need to be adjusted. BA Evans



Paul Vebber -> (9/13/2000 11:28:00 PM)

The M1 Bazooka could penetrate a max of about 4 in of armor, the M9, 6in (@30degrees) So the Panther front which is about a little over 150 to a Heat round should not be able to be penetrated by an M1, but could be by an M9. HEat penetration is not very reliable, so it can very between half the max and max, with a "fizzle" resulting in 10% pen 10% of the time. So the M9 varies between 88 and 176 so there is only about a 30% chance of an M9 being successfull. But that doesn't mean a string of "good die rolls" can't happen:-)



Voriax -> (9/14/2000 11:17:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber: The M1 Bazooka could penetrate a max of about 4 in of armor, the M9, 6in (@30degrees)
Can you tell me an online source for these penetrations? The M9 troubled me a bit earlier, I think it has a too high maximum penetration (176mm). I did some browsing around and got figures like 4,5 inches for M1 and 5,5 inches for M9. Both were able to fire same ammo but the trigger mechanism and sights were improved in the M9 Voriax



Owl -> (9/15/2000 2:53:00 AM)

Hmmm, just got thinking about this. Anyone have an idea on how sloped armor affects HEAT? I would suppose at some point the HEAT round would simply not function due to a not direct impact on its fuse. If it does function by hitting - say the curved top of a tank I would think local infantry would be unhappy, but little else would happen. So, after all that, does HEAT use its penetration value against the armor taking into account armor angle or not? It seems like it probably should, but I've no idea how a HEAT round reacts on impact. If it's a pressure wave effect similar to an udnerwater torpedo hit on a ship it would ignore the slope and go directly through the least resistance. ------------------ (.) (.) ...V...



Paul Vebber -> (9/15/2000 3:17:00 AM)

The game values are based on 4in and 6in penetration vs 30 degrees - not much different from your values. I think the book "Anti-Tank is where is where I got them from. HEAT penetration is a functionof diameter of the "cone" of explosive, the stand off in diameters, and the "impedance" of the path to the armor (a fuction of angle and "stuff" in the way..ie spaced armor, tracks, logs, etc...) To get max penetration the round must go of in a rather narrow "basket" of distance, angle and lack of "impedance". Deviation causes significant loss of performance. IF all works right the jet will take the "straight path" throught the armor (armor/cos angle of incidence). An AP round intereacts with armor in a fundamentally differnet way, so the game uses a different routine for HEAT Penetration. Since so much can "screw up" the optimum geometry, the effectiveness of HEAT keeps the large random factor described above.



Owl -> (9/15/2000 6:43:00 AM)

Thanks for the reply Paul. Does the armor skirt or spaced armor addition some of the PzIII's had then "appear" thicker in game terms when being attacked with a HEAT round than it does with an AP? I really need a good Battleship or carrier game to get entused about. People will start thinking I'm a grunt soon... I wish I could pay you guys for the game. Quite a switch from when I shell out $$$ for a program and think it's worth 1/10 the price. ------------------ (.) (.) ...V...



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