Retreating under fire (Full Version)

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RUsco -> Retreating under fire (9/13/2000 5:03:00 AM)

Would it be possible to add a feature to retreat under fire during AI or opponants turn. I like the Op-fire option and was wondering if reteat under fire would be possible. Thanks Matrix for a really great game.



Wild Bill -> (9/14/2000 12:15:00 AM)

The AI will retreat a unit if it becomes too suppressed. But you are asking for you to have the choice to retreat it yourself, is that right? That would be cool. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Charles22 -> (9/14/2000 12:59:00 AM)

That is a most original request, isn't it Wild Bill? I suppose with retreating, they would reduce the accuracy for the shots directed at them, wouldn't it? The rearwards movement, which is really an advance, gamewise, amounts to becoming an easier target whilst in view of the enemy currently.



Tombstone -> (9/14/2000 1:45:00 AM)

Intentional retreats would add a needed dimension to the delaying tactic. Right now a motivated player can slaughter infantry squads if he so desires. If you could have a unit (as long as it has adequate remaining movemenr points) retreat it would enhance the infantry combat a good deal. Tomo



Charles22 -> (9/14/2000 1:54:00 AM)

Also, imagine that you could hit the 'all' command and have the entire formation retreat at once. That would make for a hasty retreat, yes? [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



Wild Bill -> (9/14/2000 3:30:00 AM)

Pretty neat idea, guys!...WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Charles22 -> (9/14/2000 3:33:00 AM)

I would assume it's way too late to 'ADD' things as sweeping as a retreat option to the game, but think of the possibilities. You could have scenarios, and perhaps cmapaign battles as well, where a certain amount of one side starts out as retreating there first move, in view of an op fire capable enemy (maybe you could even make a wav file for retreating infantry, such as them screaming "IIEEEEE" [I think that would be an international terror cry wouldn't it?]). In other words, this option would create another category of battle, what you might term as 'reargaurd action'. It would be a more hasty defense than the 'delay' we commonly play. Nice dreams anyway [This message has been edited by Charles22 (edited September 13, 2000).]



Charles22 -> (9/14/2000 3:42:00 AM)

Hey Wild Bill? Don't you think we ought to bump RUsco up to veteran for that idea? Boy I would love to enter a battle with some of the enemy trying to run to some safety right away.



RUsco -> (9/14/2000 4:32:00 AM)

Thanks for all the feedback. My reason for this is I was Playing Preparing the way campaign and I had an M-4 sitting and the Germans were taking potshots at about 10 to 12 hexes away. I was thinking, to heck with this, I wish I could retreat about 1 or 2 hexes to get out of the hotseat. I was thinking something along the lines of the new Op-fire routine, that after you refuse Op-fire,possibly at a suppression level more than buttoned,but not pinned, then possibly get a chance to retreat. Thank Guys



U235 -> (9/14/2000 8:52:00 AM)

The only bad thing about a retreat is (the way the code currently exisits)that it would expose the rear armour of your AFV's. Not a good thing if you are getting pounded. I suppose for infantry it wouldn't be so bad. All in all a good idea, but vehicles would need to be able to reverse gear. That was mentioned in a thread a long time ago and didn't sound promising for implementation.



reaper2100 -> (9/14/2000 9:14:00 AM)

In response to U-235 remarks: Does the gaming system take into account and assess penalties if an infantry unit takes fire from the flanks or rear? Having been in this situation several times (Grenada '82, Panama '89, Somalia '93) I can assure you that if you take fire from the sides or rear it will mess up your day. Having fire come from the your front is one thing (and expected), but when you start taking fire from your sides and rear, it tends to create confusion and fear (AKA suppression).



Paul Vebber -> (9/14/2000 9:44:00 AM)

No currently there is no data structure to account fo such an effect.



Graf Speer -> (9/14/2000 11:06:00 AM)

You shirkers should all hang your helmets in shame [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] . . . all this silly talk of retreat!! "nuts" to all of you [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/cool.gif[/img]!!! (tongue n' cheek, notwithstanding, a programmed voluntary retreat - say after firing off one round - would be cool [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]) . . . and did I say I love the new - completely optional - Opportunity Fire Routine! This one feature alone is simply outstanding! Albert



jerrek -> (9/14/2000 11:18:00 AM)

i wish my commandoes were not so brave My commando unit (mission 129) was suppressed and i could not command them but they stayed next to the shore emplacement until they had been witled (by eneny rifle) to nothing.



Bill -> (9/14/2000 3:47:00 PM)

I must say that reaper2100 has a very good point with the extra suppression arising from flank and especially rear fire. At the moment you are not really rewarded for achieving this, but as Paul V says the data structure isn't there. It would be nice for it to be on 'The List' though. As far as retreating armour goes, I am reading about Churchills of the 9th Bn Royal Tank Regiment and they frequently reverse out of untenable positions without hitting each other and objects. On tactical grounds this would be a very good feature to add but we must also bear in mind that the Matrix guys are volunteers, and whilst there appear to be a lot of desirable features that we can't have, I must say I'm glad that they've given us the best squad level game around. Thanks. Bill



Charles22 -> (9/14/2000 10:14:00 PM)

What Graf Speer brings up, is possibly the reason why nobody ever had such an idea before RUsco came along. Nobody wants to be the one who came up with the idea of having a 'chicken-out' option. My first reaction was that it was a looney defeatist idea, but then when Wild Bill thought it might have some merit, I began to expand a bit, and even though you may never want to retreat your troops, it would at least be an interesting ploy to play on the enemy, which might get them to charge when they see an entire front seeming to fold.



Tombstone -> (9/15/2000 1:46:00 AM)

Deliberate withdrawl under fire is no 'chicken out' kind of action. Tomo



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