RE: Maps with VLs unhidden (Full Version)

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Perturabo -> RE: Maps with VLs unhidden (11/29/2007 9:38:43 PM)


quote:

Any more unrealistic than clicking around a battlefield and moving vehicles and men about like some god? It's a game, and as such needs some gaming mechanisms. The VLs also happen to be there, and winning or losing is based on them... so let's see the Vls already.

I played a game last night at Battle HQ and the the scenario instructions said 'take the town.' My opponent rained down this game's destructive indirect fire on my approaching troops and I could not take the town. Yet, at game end, it turns out most of the VLs were in my territory, so according to the game I won. Another reason to see those little flags.

There's a difference between knowing where the VL is (landmark lable over VL) and automagically knowing that the enemy has troops over VL (VL icon). The difference is that players can abuse indirect fire and fire support to kill troops that have taken the victory location about which take over they shouldn't have known in first place unless they can see those enemy units.



mooxe -> RE: Maps with VLs unhidden (11/30/2007 12:15:07 AM)

So now I lay direct fire over a land mark label. Whats the difference? Its strange we even have to have this conversation on being able to see VLs. The only a way a system like this (hidden VLs) will ever be fair is if two or more players on both teams play the map for the 1st time, sort of like a blind date between two teams. The Op order has to be very specific on the objectives to. Once they play one battle in a specific scenario, they will know where the VLs are and the point of them being hidden becomes useless.

Just laying down fire on VL is not an effective strategy. Whoever is firing exposes thier unit, they usually load HE for it, which makes the 1st shot from an enemy tank AP vs his opponents already loaded HE. The reload times are predictable so you can go sneak forward as much as you can and sneak back.

Hidden VLs must go, or be an option. land mark labels are only a bandaid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo


quote:

There's a difference between knowing where the VL is (landmark lable over VL) and automagically knowing that the enemy has troops over VL (VL icon). The difference is that players can abuse indirect fire and fire support to kill troops that have taken the victory location about which take over they shouldn't have known in first place unless they can see those enemy units.




zon -> RE: Maps with VLs unhidden (11/30/2007 6:28:31 AM)

Perturabo, I do see your point about intel on captured flags that your troops can't observe. If Matrix would code the game so VLs remain static throughout, that might work just fine -- as long as you can see 'em. Such a system would certainly encourage players to hang onto their troops so you can keep the VLs covered. I come to this from the stantpoint of someone who plays CC2 a lot online against hardcore and tough players. Here, VLs are fought over like dogs on a bone, and seeing VLs switch - while not necessarily realistic - is part of a gaming experience that is a hell of a lot of fun. You take the VLs or you lose - no arguments, no points assigned by the computer. I won't mind if that formula is continued.

I'm a little surprised by the debate, too, Mooxe. It also may be for nought, cause I haven't seen any strong clues that Matrix is ever going to patch this game; it seems to be put out as a bargain-bin offering.



Andrew Williams -> RE: Maps with VLs unhidden (11/30/2007 7:56:00 AM)

Check post 24

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1617254



zon -> RE: Maps with VLs unhidden (11/30/2007 9:35:28 AM)

That's good news. Thanks for the heads-up. I spoke too soon. Why don't you guys set up a post just for the patch, throw out what might be changed?



Grumbling Grogn -> RE: Maps with VLs unhidden (12/9/2007 2:26:39 AM)

I think the USMC were right...'if' the scenario designer has a decent write up that explains your mission objectives for the game.  Unfortunately in real life with games like this that is rarely (i.e. NEVER!) the case.  Need to have them displayed IMHO.

GG



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