FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (Full Version)

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Karri -> FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (11/22/2007 7:01:36 PM)

A few turns played so it is time to start the AAR. Plus I am on vacation and have nothing to do really.

So anyways, I am playing as Soviets and going with my usual strategy for starters. In a few points:
1. Finnish border fortified heavily, no offensive plans there.
2. Leningrad defences start from Narva and run along the Luga river to lake Il'men.
3. From there the defensive line runs along the forests, lakes and swamps down to Smolensk, from where it continues to Bryansk.
4. From Bryansk it will run along rivers down to the Sea of Azov.
5. Heavy roadblock systems everywhere, to slow and wear down the Axis spearhead. Minsk, Kiev and Odessa are havily fortified strongpoints to further slow down the enemy...

The main defensive line should be, by the time the axis get there in force, a 2 unit deep line of infantry backed up with artillery, armored reserves will be positioned nearby once they become available.

As I have argued, it is nearly impossible to get thorugh this kind of defences(no matter how good of a Axis player), and it allows the Soviets to switch into offensive as early as after the mud season. Deserted Fox will be trying to prove me wrong.

This is the plan, it's gonna change naturally depending on what my enemy does.


Turn 1:

It's the usual... the Axis break through the frontline and wreack havoc upon my air units. Several dozen encircled divisions, and those that aren't encircled are place in positions where they will be encircled for sure...but they should slow down the enemy. Around 1500 planes were lost.



Karri -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (11/23/2007 3:41:16 PM)

Turn 2:
Casualties double, which is not surprising. However I am able to move out most of my aircraft, as the enemy doesn't attack any of them this turn. I lost only 60 aircraft. That's definetly going to cost him when winter arrives.

After taking a good look at the map, it's pretty obvious that the enemy is concentrating on a few selected routes, as there still remains pockets of resistance in areas where there shouldn't be any if he was to attack through there.

In the north the enemy will reach Riga soon enough, and seems to be concentrating troops on a drive towards Leningrad. However he might also be concentrating on an attack North of Moscow in hopes of outflanking my defensive lines through there. An area to be rienforced for sure.

In the center there doesn't seem to be all that much advance. Lot's of encircled troops, but Minsk seems pretty safe still.

In the south the enemy is heading for Stalin line, there are however a good number of 'road bumps' before he reaches it in force.

I continue building the strongpoints and the main line, without full rail capacity it is pretty slow job though.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (11/24/2007 12:14:08 PM)

Screen Shots! We need Screen Shots! Mr. Fulkerson would have had screen shots!

Just kidding, I know they are alot of trouble. I just needed to get an LF reference in.

Are you playing a 'cease fire' version or a 'shock/supply' version?



Karri -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (11/26/2007 10:23:43 PM)

Screenshots will arrive when my main line is being attacked, before that you have to wait.

Turn 3:
North-
The enemy has reached and crossed the Dvina river, but not in force yet. Units moving to block his way. Riga not being threathened heavily, although it will be lost for sure. Seems like enemy is going for Velikey Luki or Pskov.

Center-
Pretty quiet, some unit destroyed but no considerable advance.

South-
Most of the roadblocks have been wiped out, although the enemy has not reached Stalin line yet. Should do so next turn and breach it in 1-2 more turns.

Not much else to report...



Fungwu -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (12/5/2007 4:26:31 AM)

whatever happened to this game?



Karri -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (12/5/2007 7:21:05 AM)

It's still going on, turn 11. Haven't just written anything...



cesteman -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (12/10/2007 10:52:40 PM)

updates?



Karri -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (12/13/2007 9:08:07 PM)


Turn 4-10:
North-
In the far north, Murmansk area that is, nothing is happening. Germans are pleased to sit where they are and do nothing.

In Lenigrad area however the finns are very active. They've concentrated most of their units in the Karelian ISthmus and are making a heavy push towards Lenigrad there. There are enough Soviet units to stop them though, so all they do is a slow advance of 1 or 2 hexes a turn. Eastern Karelia is empty of troops, a few finns run around converting hexes.

Now South of Leningrad the Germans advanced between Lake Peipus and lake Il'men towards Novgorod. They have made some attack and are making slow advance. I originally thought they'd be heading towards Velikey Luki and from there to outflank both Moscow and Leningrad, but that seems not to be the case. In fact in that area no contact has been made so far.

Enemy air superiority is overwhelming, and all rail movement is being interdicted...still about half the units do get to their destination, and rest will just march there.

Center-

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Minsk, though encircled, is still in our hands.

South-

The enemy is going to make another grand push in here. One spearhead attacking from Kremechug and another from Romny-Vorozhba area. It seems like their goal is Kharkov. Well, more likely the destruction of my forces. Otherwise it is pretty quiet...

Here too the interdiction is a killer.

Kiev and Odessa are still in our hands...now that I think of it though, perhaps I should just have given those up and I would have had 20-30 units in reserve ready to counter-attack...but it does have certain heroism to it :)

Loss penalties at the end of turn 10 were 30 axis to 107 soviet.

[image]http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3091/animation1cd6.gif[/image]



FaneFlugt -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (12/13/2007 10:20:58 PM)

I Think holding on to Odessa for as long as possible is the best option. Its well fortified and most importanly its a supply source.
Rail in all the fortress divsion you can spare, 2 Tank armies and the 9th seperate army (I think thats the name of the army, that is located in in Bessarabien area in the start of the game) and som art. It will keep the Rumanians busy and they cant really take it by themself.
If the Germans bypass it, its possible to make some sorties with your tank armies and destroy some rumanian units. If the germans are keen on taking it
It will slow them down on some other part of the front.



Karri -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (12/15/2007 5:10:58 PM)

Well, the war is over. My opponent decided to give up on turn 19, as he saw no way of continuing the attack succesfully.

Anyways:
The attack in North, Leningrad that is, was proceeding, but very slowly. It was pretty much WWI attritional warfare, with a few hexes taken each turn. I did have to make a little withdrawal on the eastern banks of Lake Il'men, but apart from gaining some ground for free, it didn't really help my opponent. I was starting to switch into counter-attack as I had the units to spare and the axis units were getting tired. I doubt there were any hopes of a breakthrough here, and even if there would be one the axis would only have gained Leningrad before the mud would have set in.

Now the second attacks was in South towards Bryansk. There were a few moments when the line was in danger of being broken, but even so the danger of a full scale breakthrough wasn't really there. I had to withdraw a few times here in order to keep the line intact, but even so there never was a single gap in the line. At the end of turn 18 the line was 2-3 units deep and I was starting to consider counter-attacks. The area certainly did not need any more reinforcements.

Regarding air war, it was pretty heavy with about half of my units moving by rail being interdicted. It however ment that had the game gone on the Axis airforces would have been pretty much desroyed by Winter.



[image]http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6229/animation1ye0.gif[/image]



Fungwu -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (12/15/2007 9:31:56 PM)

I see army group north and army group south, but what happened to army group center?



Levelworm -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (12/15/2007 11:38:18 PM)

Maybe part of army group center went to south?



Fungwu -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (12/15/2007 11:52:42 PM)

"Maybe part of army group center went to south?"

I thought he might have headed south through minsk and gomel, but if look in that area Karri has some units out there and nothing came past them. The only other route South would be to head from the starting position due south along the german lines, which seems unlikely. Maybe Army group center went North, but if he did his attack there should have been much more powerful.





DesertedFox -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (12/16/2007 1:04:01 PM)

Hi guys,
I am the oppoent for Karri here. I tried using only 2 rail lines of communication for the most part, with a third developing off one one I reached and crossed the Dneiper.

This allowed me to get into contact with KarrisMLR (main line of resistance) early than he expected. Thus, for the most part there was no AGC.

You comment of if there was was no AGC then my push should have been stronger, is actually incorrect. My push was a strong as it could be. I made headway in the north and south but could not get the vital breakthrough I needed.

Why not? You need to the the topic of FITE balance below in the forums. Basically the pull back defence which Karri used here and I use as well, is totally undefeatable. Thus my suggestions to make the scenario more balanced.

Mark



Fungwu -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (12/16/2007 10:38:49 PM)

"Why not? You need to the the topic of FITE balance below in the forums. Basically the pull back defence which Karri used here and I use as well, is totally undefeatable. Thus my suggestions to make the scenario more balanced."

Well I am not so sure if Karri's defence is totally undefeatable. I managed to defeat it in Buzz mod FITE and take Moscow on turn 16. Karri says I wouldn't be able to do it in normal FITE because he would have more rail capacity, but I think I just might have a chance.

Right now it looks like he will win the game we are playing because I made some big mistakes early on, but I have made a revised battle plan, and I think I just might be able to beat him in our next game.



DesertedFox -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (12/17/2007 6:47:18 AM)

Hi Fungwu,

I kind of goaded Karri into playing me, as I felt the stock FITE was imbalanced and needed an good Soviet player to prove it. I am FITE free at present, though I am hoping to start another game with an existing opponent with my suggested house rules to test them

I am up to play you at stock FITE if you like to let you put your theory to the test. Stock FITE and Buzz's mod are two different animals completely. I haven't followed your and Karri's AAR much other than I know you make a big push for Moscow.

Oh, and whilst Karri and I both use the pull back defence, I REALLY use it more than Karri and I am willing to be proved wrong, so if you like we can have stock FITE game.

Cheers,

Mark



Karri -> RE: FitE Karri vs. Deserted Fox (12/17/2007 7:41:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox

Hi Fungwu,

I kind of goaded Karri into playing me, as I felt the stock FITE was imbalanced and needed an good Soviet player to prove it. I am FITE free at present, though I am hoping to start another game with an existing opponent with my suggested house rules to test them

I am up to play you at stock FITE if you like to let you put your theory to the test. Stock FITE and Buzz's mod are two different animals completely. I haven't followed your and Karri's AAR much other than I know you make a big push for Moscow.

Oh, and whilst Karri and I both use the pull back defence, I REALLY use it more than Karri and I am willing to be proved wrong, so if you like we can have stock FITE game.

Cheers,

Mark




Not to mention the 'rollback' factor. Once the Soviets are able to build that line 2 units deep the Axis can keep attacking it for ever and never get a breakthrough.



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