RE: Submarine Bombardments

RE: Submarine Bombardments (Full Version)

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bradfordkay -> RE: Submarine Bombardments (1/6/2008 5:45:34 AM)
" We've been told that ships now have a withdrawl date attached to them rather than the current monthly withdraw ship routine: 1) Am I correct in assuming that this applies to all ships which are in the game, or just British? And not just warships? Everything that's wet on the bottom and full of seamen. Must fight... impulse... to make... bad joke...

siRkid -> Ship SUnk Screen (1/6/2008 1:36:20 PM)
Can we please get a date sunk column on the Ship Sunk screen?

Q-Ball -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/6/2008 2:51:55 PM)
This may have been asked, but didn't see it. I get the new repair choices, but my question: How long does it take to make a ship Offline vs. Online? And vice-versa? Basically, take it out of drydock and make it operational? I assume there is a lag, otherwise, why not just dock every ship?

Don Bowen -> RE: Submarine Bombardments (1/6/2008 5:28:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay " We've been told that ships now have a withdrawl date attached to them rather than the current monthly withdraw ship routine: 1) Am I correct in assuming that this applies to all ships which are in the game, or just British? And not just warships? Everything that's wet on the bottom and full of seamen. Must fight... impulse... to make... bad joke... Wow, I'm glad I didn't mention those screws in the rear end.

Don Bowen -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/6/2008 5:29:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kid Can we please get a date sunk column on the Ship Sunk screen? Yes

Don Bowen -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/6/2008 5:35:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Q-Ball This may have been asked, but didn't see it. I get the new repair choices, but my question: How long does it take to make a ship Offline vs. Online? And vice-versa? Basically, take it out of drydock and make it operational? I assume there is a lag, otherwise, why not just dock every ship? Taking a ship offline takes no time but does incur random additional damage. Returning a ship to service before completion of repairs takes a minimum number of days (around 3) or the time it has been offline (whichever is less). Also, there is a limit on capacity for repairing ships offline (shipyard size, port size, available ARs). Take too many out of service and they have to queue up for repair services and some just sit and wait. Increase priority on a ship and it steals repair resources from everyone else. You will have to manage your repair resources carefully.

Ron Saueracker -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/6/2008 9:13:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Don Bowen quote: ORIGINAL: Kid Can we please get a date sunk column on the Ship Sunk screen? Yes Coolness![;)] No chance of you guys adding an administrative tool for us grogs...the ability to organize ships into divisions, squadrons etc, to alleviate some of the workload (especially later in the game with bazillions of ships, is there? I asked before so I guess this qualifies as harassment!![:D] Paaaaawleeeeeaaaaase......................

Tom Hunter -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/6/2008 9:31:12 PM)
My understanding (though I do not remember the source) is that the commander of the Japanese sub that shelled the USA had actually visited the oil terminal you shelled in the late 1930s. The story I read said that he fell through a peir and was laughed at by some of the guys working there. Years later, he came back for revenge... But it still does not justify submarine bombardment capabilities.

Don Bowen -> RE: Ship Sunk Screen (1/6/2008 9:57:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker Coolness![;)] No chance of you guys adding an administrative tool for us grogs...the ability to organize ships into divisions, squadrons etc, to alleviate some of the workload (especially later in the game with bazillions of ships, is there? I asked before so I guess this qualifies as harassment!![:D] Paaaaawleeeeeaaaaase...................... Yes and No. Yes - you can assign ships to lower level HQs as an organizational aid. Then search for ships assigned to that HQ. HQs in this regard will be things like Sub-Fleets within Command HQ, etc. They must be Naval HQs. You can group assign all of the ships in the sub HQ to another Command HQ. No - you can not assign all ships of a given HQ to a Task Force. These are not squadrons or flotillas, and no mechanism exists to group them or keep them together on the map. We did look at this, but there were a large number of issues, both design and code.

JWE -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/6/2008 9:58:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker Coolness![;)] No chance of you guys adding an administrative tool for us grogs...the ability to organize ships into divisions, squadrons etc, to alleviate some of the workload (especially later in the game with bazillions of ships, is there? I asked before so I guess this qualifies as harassment!![:D] Paaaaawleeeeeaaaaase...................... Awww, dude … No, that won’t work. Organization on that level requires HQs, and such, and there’s just no room for divisional level admin, outside a TF structure. Can you imagine the confusion of making and breaking up billions of DesRons; kinda like IRL in ’42, ain’t it. I hear you though. In my wargaming group’s games, we’ve been organizing amphib TFs into TransRons and TransDivs forever, but that’s cause we want to keep Kosher. We are thinking, however, about bifurcating the cargo classes. An AK(A) or AP(A), was a commissioned vessel with specific utility that the SS Wynette didn’t have. WiTP-1 allowed any old vessel to comprise an assault TF. If our thinking is clear, AE will force limitations on amphib TFs to those ships that were actually capable of participating. That’s not to say the SS Wynette can’t go into an amphib TF, but if she does, she can’t unload at any reasonable rate (no boats, no strengthened kingposts, squat for AA), so anybody who wants to do that will get exactly what they deserve. So, a very limited number of capable, commissioned ships, can play. Shouldn’t be hard to TF them into suitable TransRons or TransDivs. Know what I’m sayin ??? Ciao.

pad152 -> RE: Submarine Bombardments (1/6/2008 10:35:38 PM)
Daily PP cost until withdrawl, I don't like it [:@] 1.How much does daily PP for a ship cost? 2.What happens to a ship on mission TF, it's withdrawl date comes up? 3. Am I going to start getiing charged daily PP's until the ship returns to port? This will make any ship near a withdrawl date usless, or limit where you can send it, who wants to waste PP's! 4. What happens to damaged ships, zero speed far from home port when it's withdrawl date comes up? 5. A ship far from home, will I be charged PP's until it get back to it's home port? 6. Will ship be allowed to be withdrawn from any port?

Don Bowen -> RE: Submarine Bombardments (1/6/2008 10:57:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pad152 Daily PP cost until withdrawl, I don't like it [:@] 1.How much does daily PP for a ship cost? Varies by ship type. I assure you, you can not afford it. quote: 2.What happens to a ship on mission TF, it's withdrawl date comes up? Nothing. You just start getting charged PPs quote: 3. Am I going to start getiing charged daily PP's until the ship returns to port? This will make any ship near a withdrawl date usless, or limit where you can send it, who wants to waste PP's! Yup. You start getting warnings 30 days before withdrawal and a "who's due soon" screen is available. quote: 4. What happens to damaged ships, zero speed far from home port when it's withdrawl date comes up? The Atlantic Fleet does not care. They just want that ship back and you had better get it back. quote: 5. A ship far from home, will I be charged PP's until it get back to it's home port? You will be charged PPs until it is withdrawn. Home port is not an issue. quote: 6. Will ship be allowed to be withdrawn from any port? NO - you must move them off map. Basically, Churchill or King or someone is banging on the desk. Torch, or Overload, or something is coming up and they want that ship!

Fishbed -> RE: Submarine Bombardments (1/7/2008 12:57:37 AM)
Good enough for me. I would complain if I had no clue about who's due when, but if we have a screen with warnings showing up 30 days before this very date we have to tell her goodbye, well that's fair-play.

timtom -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 1:18:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter My understanding (though I do not remember the source) is that the commander of the Japanese sub that shelled the USA had actually visited the oil terminal you shelled in the late 1930s. (in reply to Ron Saueracker) Cranky, maybe, but I didn't know Ron was that old! And an eco-warrior to boot! [:D]

Ron Saueracker -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 2:45:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JWE quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker Coolness![;)] No chance of you guys adding an administrative tool for us grogs...the ability to organize ships into divisions, squadrons etc, to alleviate some of the workload (especially later in the game with bazillions of ships, is there? I asked before so I guess this qualifies as harassment!![:D] Paaaaawleeeeeaaaaase...................... Awww, dude … No, that won’t work. Organization on that level requires HQs, and such, and there’s just no room for divisional level admin, outside a TF structure. Can you imagine the confusion of making and breaking up billions of DesRons; kinda like IRL in ’42, ain’t it. I hear you though. In my wargaming group’s games, we’ve been organizing amphib TFs into TransRons and TransDivs forever, but that’s cause we want to keep Kosher. We are thinking, however, about bifurcating the cargo classes. An AK(A) or AP(A), was a commissioned vessel with specific utility that the SS Wynette didn’t have. WiTP-1 allowed any old vessel to comprise an assault TF. If our thinking is clear, AE will force limitations on amphib TFs to those ships that were actually capable of participating. That’s not to say the SS Wynette can’t go into an amphib TF, but if she does, she can’t unload at any reasonable rate (no boats, no strengthened kingposts, squat for AA), so anybody who wants to do that will get exactly what they deserve. So, a very limited number of capable, commissioned ships, can play. Shouldn’t be hard to TF them into suitable TransRons or TransDivs. Know what I’m sayin ??? Ciao. So, a player placing ships in an admin formation like a division and then placing this division into a TF (instead of individual ships...ie TF 200 is made up of CarDiv1 :Lex and Sara, Crudiv 4 :Astoria, Quincy and Vincennes and DesDiv 12: Lang, Benham, Ellet, Mayrant) is that much more complicated than placing individual ships in a TF? It is only one more step but once accomplished, simplifies the players burden.

treespider -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 2:54:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker quote: ORIGINAL: JWE quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker Coolness![;)] No chance of you guys adding an administrative tool for us grogs...the ability to organize ships into divisions, squadrons etc, to alleviate some of the workload (especially later in the game with bazillions of ships, is there? I asked before so I guess this qualifies as harassment!![:D] Paaaaawleeeeeaaaaase...................... Awww, dude … No, that won’t work. Organization on that level requires HQs, and such, and there’s just no room for divisional level admin, outside a TF structure. Can you imagine the confusion of making and breaking up billions of DesRons; kinda like IRL in ’42, ain’t it. I hear you though. In my wargaming group’s games, we’ve been organizing amphib TFs into TransRons and TransDivs forever, but that’s cause we want to keep Kosher. We are thinking, however, about bifurcating the cargo classes. An AK(A) or AP(A), was a commissioned vessel with specific utility that the SS Wynette didn’t have. WiTP-1 allowed any old vessel to comprise an assault TF. If our thinking is clear, AE will force limitations on amphib TFs to those ships that were actually capable of participating. That’s not to say the SS Wynette can’t go into an amphib TF, but if she does, she can’t unload at any reasonable rate (no boats, no strengthened kingposts, squat for AA), so anybody who wants to do that will get exactly what they deserve. So, a very limited number of capable, commissioned ships, can play. Shouldn’t be hard to TF them into suitable TransRons or TransDivs. Know what I’m sayin ??? Ciao. So, a player placing ships in an admin formation like a division and then placing this division into a TF (instead of individual ships...ie TF 200 is made up of CarDiv1 :Lex and Sara, Crudiv 4 :Astoria, Quincy and Vincennes and DesDiv 12: Lang, Benham, Ellet, Mayrant) is that much more complicated than placing individual ships in a TF? It is only one more step but once accomplished, simplifies the players burden. To put into english - Ron wants to be able to assign TF's to be part of TF's. So TF 1 may actually be CarDiv1 and he wants to asign TF 12 which is DesRon 12 to TF 1 and have them function like one TF.

wworld7 -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 3:24:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: treespider To put into english - Ron wants to be able to assign TF's to be part of TF's. So TF 1 may actually be CarDiv1 and he wants to asign TF 12 which is DesRon 12 to TF 1 and have them function like one TF. Ron explained his request well and I like it. Since it won't make AE "maybe" it could make it into WITP2? One can hope.

Don Bowen -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 4:04:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker quote: ORIGINAL: JWE quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker Coolness![;)] No chance of you guys adding an administrative tool for us grogs...the ability to organize ships into divisions, squadrons etc, to alleviate some of the workload (especially later in the game with bazillions of ships, is there? I asked before so I guess this qualifies as harassment!![:D] Paaaaawleeeeeaaaaase...................... Awww, dude … No, that won’t work. Organization on that level requires HQs, and such, and there’s just no room for divisional level admin, outside a TF structure. Can you imagine the confusion of making and breaking up billions of DesRons; kinda like IRL in ’42, ain’t it. I hear you though. In my wargaming group’s games, we’ve been organizing amphib TFs into TransRons and TransDivs forever, but that’s cause we want to keep Kosher. We are thinking, however, about bifurcating the cargo classes. An AK(A) or AP(A), was a commissioned vessel with specific utility that the SS Wynette didn’t have. WiTP-1 allowed any old vessel to comprise an assault TF. If our thinking is clear, AE will force limitations on amphib TFs to those ships that were actually capable of participating. That’s not to say the SS Wynette can’t go into an amphib TF, but if she does, she can’t unload at any reasonable rate (no boats, no strengthened kingposts, squat for AA), so anybody who wants to do that will get exactly what they deserve. So, a very limited number of capable, commissioned ships, can play. Shouldn’t be hard to TF them into suitable TransRons or TransDivs. Know what I’m sayin ??? Ciao. So, a player placing ships in an admin formation like a division and then placing this division into a TF (instead of individual ships...ie TF 200 is made up of CarDiv1 :Lex and Sara, Crudiv 4 :Astoria, Quincy and Vincennes and DesDiv 12: Lang, Benham, Ellet, Mayrant) is that much more complicated than placing individual ships in a TF? It is only one more step but once accomplished, simplifies the players burden. Yes, Ron, it is immensely more complex. Exponentially more difficult. We looked at it, we ain't going to do it.

pad152 -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 5:37:05 AM)
Original Question quote: 4. What happens to damaged ships, zero speed far from home port when it's withdrawl date comes up? Reply quote: The Atlantic Fleet does not care. They just want that ship back and you had better get it back. Huh, so I'm trying to get a withdrawn ship far from an exit hex, it get's torpedoed, doesn't sink, zero speed, so I get charged PP's until it's repaired and makes it to the exit hex or sinks??? This doesn't even make sense and takes the whole withdrawal and PP process a couple of steps too far! [8\|] Forget this, invest more time/effort in a better AI! [:-]

JeffroK -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 6:21:08 AM)
Ship withdrawal: Why can't an identical, or better class suffice for the withdrawal. Does Home Fleet demand HMS Caradoc or would HMS Suffolk or Warspite suffice?? Making it the exact ship is too much reliving RL, but for one side only.

wworld7 -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 6:30:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pad152 Original Question quote: 4. What happens to damaged ships, zero speed far from home port when it's withdrawl date comes up? Reply quote: The Atlantic Fleet does not care. They just want that ship back and you had better get it back. Huh, so I'm trying to get a withdrawn ship far from an exit hex, it get's torpedoed, doesn't sink, zero speed, so I get charged PP's until it's repaired and makes it to the exit hex or sinks??? This doesn't even make sense and takes the whole withdrawal and PP process a couple of steps too far! [8\|] Forget this, invest more time/effort in a better AI! [:-] At zero speed isn't it likely you could SCUTTLE it? Which I would think should eliminate the ongoing PP cost. This could be a good change for the game, only time and playing will tell.

wworld7 -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 6:34:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffK Ship withdrawal: Why can't an identical, or better class suffice for the withdrawal. Does Home Fleet demand HMS Caradoc or would HMS Suffolk or Warspite suffice?? This seems to make sense and be viable, unless I am missing some "intent" of this change by the team.

Ron Saueracker -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 8:25:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Don Bowen quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker quote: ORIGINAL: JWE quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker Coolness![;)] No chance of you guys adding an administrative tool for us grogs...the ability to organize ships into divisions, squadrons etc, to alleviate some of the workload (especially later in the game with bazillions of ships, is there? I asked before so I guess this qualifies as harassment!![:D] Paaaaawleeeeeaaaaase...................... Awww, dude … No, that won’t work. Organization on that level requires HQs, and such, and there’s just no room for divisional level admin, outside a TF structure. Can you imagine the confusion of making and breaking up billions of DesRons; kinda like IRL in ’42, ain’t it. I hear you though. In my wargaming group’s games, we’ve been organizing amphib TFs into TransRons and TransDivs forever, but that’s cause we want to keep Kosher. We are thinking, however, about bifurcating the cargo classes. An AK(A) or AP(A), was a commissioned vessel with specific utility that the SS Wynette didn’t have. WiTP-1 allowed any old vessel to comprise an assault TF. If our thinking is clear, AE will force limitations on amphib TFs to those ships that were actually capable of participating. That’s not to say the SS Wynette can’t go into an amphib TF, but if she does, she can’t unload at any reasonable rate (no boats, no strengthened kingposts, squat for AA), so anybody who wants to do that will get exactly what they deserve. So, a very limited number of capable, commissioned ships, can play. Shouldn’t be hard to TF them into suitable TransRons or TransDivs. Know what I’m sayin ??? Ciao. So, a player placing ships in an admin formation like a division and then placing this division into a TF (instead of individual ships...ie TF 200 is made up of CarDiv1 :Lex and Sara, Crudiv 4 :Astoria, Quincy and Vincennes and DesDiv 12: Lang, Benham, Ellet, Mayrant) is that much more complicated than placing individual ships in a TF? It is only one more step but once accomplished, simplifies the players burden. Yes, Ron, it is immensely more complex. Exponentially more difficult. We looked at it, we ain't going to do it. OK... had no idea such a simple concept was such a bugger to implement.[X(] Thanks for looking into it guys.[;)]

Brausepaul -> RE: Submarine Bombardments (1/7/2008 11:50:35 AM)
What about a more realistic ship upgrade procedure? Right now, if you put in a ship with two upgrades due (let's say 2/42 and 10/42) in 1/43 will first start the 2/42 upgrade (thus "damaging" the ship), and after repairing it it will "damage" the ship again with the 10/42 upgrade. Wouldn't it be more logical if these two upgrades caused less damaged when carried out at the same time?

herwin -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 12:30:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish quote: ORIGINAL: pad152 Original Question quote: 4. What happens to damaged ships, zero speed far from home port when it's withdrawl date comes up? Reply quote: The Atlantic Fleet does not care. They just want that ship back and you had better get it back. Huh, so I'm trying to get a withdrawn ship far from an exit hex, it get's torpedoed, doesn't sink, zero speed, so I get charged PP's until it's repaired and makes it to the exit hex or sinks??? This doesn't even make sense and takes the whole withdrawal and PP process a couple of steps too far! [8\|] Forget this, invest more time/effort in a better AI! [:-] At zero speed isn't it likely you could SCUTTLE it? Which I would think should eliminate the ongoing PP cost. This could be a good change for the game, only time and playing will tell. The real-life advantage of scuttling is that you save the crew. I think that saves more than the game gives credit for.

witpqs -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 1:50:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: herwin The real-life advantage of scuttling is that you save the crew. I think that saves more than the game gives credit for. You're quite right - maybe this is something that can be improved in AE (given that it's only a VP adjustment)?

Ron Saueracker -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 2:09:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: herwin The real-life advantage of scuttling is that you save the crew. I think that saves more than the game gives credit for. You're quite right - maybe this is something that can be improved in AE (given that it's only a VP adjustment)? Oh, just add crew factors (like LCU squads) and be done with it.[:D] Improve the game and add a little humanity to the game...and massive VP increases for ships to boot.

herwin -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 4:22:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: herwin The real-life advantage of scuttling is that you save the crew. I think that saves more than the game gives credit for. You're quite right - maybe this is something that can be improved in AE (given that it's only a VP adjustment)? Oh, just add crew factors (like LCU squads) and be done with it.[:D] Improve the game and add a little humanity to the game...and massive VP increases for ships to boot. How massive? The RN R class had a peacetime crew of about 1100. The QE class was about 1300. The KGV was up to 1550. The USN South Dakota class was 1800 peacetime and 2500 wartime. The Iowas were designed for 1900 peacetime. The Yamato was 2767. Carriers were comparable. How much is saved by scuttling them? I checked and it isn't as much as it should. Just counting the crew as infantry (30/Allied VP loss, 60/Japanese VP loss) implies that scuttling an Allied DD saves 6-7 VPs, a CL or CA saves 26-27, a BB 40-80, and a CV saves about 60. In some cases, the crew is worth more as infantry than the ship.

Ron Saueracker -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 4:34:07 PM)
Regarding Ship Damage and respective Damage Control. Anything being done with the changes to ship damage to alleviate the, what in my opinion anyway, is the rather severe progressive flooding model which all nationalities are impacted? The Japanese suffer especially from the perceived inability to stem flooding, yet I suspect this was based on such rare occurances as Shinano's sinking, the result of a rare set of conditions at the very least. Japan's only failing was an early war inability to combat shipboard fires, principally avgas fueled fires on its CVs. Reducing the effects of flood damage might assist the poor AI as it fails to have any provision to deal with damaged ships...ie, send them to the nearest port, not to their "home port", which could be hundreds or thousands of miles away. Correcting this code issue would help too.[;)]

Ron Saueracker -> RE: Ship SUnk Screen (1/7/2008 4:35:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: herwin quote: ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: herwin The real-life advantage of scuttling is that you save the crew. I think that saves more than the game gives credit for. You're quite right - maybe this is something that can be improved in AE (given that it's only a VP adjustment)? Oh, just add crew factors (like LCU squads) and be done with it.[:D] Improve the game and add a little humanity to the game...and massive VP increases for ships to boot. How massive? The RN R class had a peacetime crew of about 1100. The QE class was about 1300. The KGV was up to 1550. The USN South Dakota class was 1800 peacetime and 2500 wartime. The Iowas were designed for 1900 peacetime. The Yamato was 2767. Carriers were comparable. How much is saved by scuttling them? Well, if crew factors were modelled, they would have experience, would not be in infinite supply, and would have VP value like LCU squads. Currently, I think 10% of the ship VP value is "saved" (deducted) if scuttled.

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