RE: Aircraft Fragments (Full Version)

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el cid again -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/22/2007 1:28:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SargeantTex

I know you wont let the cat out of the bag but here is a list of planes that WITP didnt have that would be great in AE
1. F7F Tigercat = Note this was NOT able to be a carrier plane in WWII - and only served in the Night Fighter role - until years later.

2.F8F Bearcat

3.Sea Hurricane

4.Kikka Note this was NOT a historically operational aircraft - and would not be impressive if it was included - a bit like the P-80 only more so - it had tiny jet engines - and there was no likelyhood of adequate ones for some years. The statistics on it would make you prefer an Oscar - or most other Japanese piston fighters.

5.Japanese version of ME163 (I forget what it was called) - Two versions actually in production (way too prematurely, as there were NO successful flights and only one catastrophic failed flight)

J8M1 with two 30 mm guns
J8M2 with one 30 mm gun and more rocket fuel

It MIGHT have been possible to get it operational - and one operational unit was forming up: but how do you simulate an interceptor with a "range" of less than 1 hex? It would require special coding.

6.Japanese G10 uberbomber = never an option for WWII - it would require until about 1948 to get the first variant operational - and 1950 until the dream machine engines could be available - if things went perfectly. I call it "the Japanese B-36" - which just MIGHT have made WWII - with higher priority - but it is doubtful. Still - a whole lot less doubtful than a G10. What WAS possible was a G8 - I call it "the Japanese B-17" - or a Ki-91 - very similar. All three were contemplated as atomic bomb carriers - rather than Western type heavy bombers. You sure you wanna do any such aircraft?

7.Karaya Ka-1 autogyro(I think that is the right name?)
This is a spotter mostly - and range too short to be useful. But it was the first truly operational rotary wing aircraft in the world, and just about the cheapest military aircraft in the world. It was one of only two JAAF aircraft to operate from IJA carriers - in an ASW role - but it may not have been effective. Probably anything we did in that role would overstate its value.



Shark7 -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/22/2007 5:24:23 PM)

On the other hand, if a player were to extend the war through being more successfull as Japan, some of these what if's might have made it at least to testing or production.

It's not something that will be terribly difficult to add with the editor anyway.

BTW, the Kayaba Ka-1 was in service at the start of the war as an artillery observation aircraft, it was later modified to carry depth charges by removing the observers position.

Another interesting possibility is the Ki-201 Karyu, which would have been a reverse engineered Me-262. Something very possible if work had begun earlier and had the Japanese government actually taken interest and funded it. As we all know, the Me-262 was a proven design by the time the war ended.

We could come up with lots of experimentals that would be nice to produce, but its probably best left to the modders after the release of AE, otherwise the team may never finish AE in the first place. [:-]

Edit: some day I might learn to spell.



Admiral Spruance -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/22/2007 8:43:25 PM)

Just had a couple of questions regarding the modeling of the strategic bombing of Japan and if it will be changed in AE:

Will the USAAF be able to load inciendiary bombs on B-29s in early 1945 and make low altitude(5000 ft) night bombing manpower attacks with increased bomb loads and actually have a "reasonable" chance to start real firestorms?

If the bomber attacks are going come in more fragmented will the fires started by each attack be additive in creating a firestorm?

The strategic bombing I have attempted on Japan....July 1944 to 1/1/45 it seemed that there were thunderstorms over Japan 28 out of 30 days a month. Will this be changed in AE?

Thanks



TheElf -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/22/2007 9:49:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SargeantTex

I know you wont let the cat out of the bag but here is a list of planes that WITP didnt have that would be great in AE
1. F7F Tigercat

2.F8F Bearcat

3.Sea Hurricane

4.Kikka

5.Japanese version of ME163 (I forget what it was called)

6.Japanese G10 uberbomber

7.Karaya Ka-1 autogyro(I think that is the right name?)

The G10 is not in.



TheElf -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/22/2007 9:50:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

quote:

ORIGINAL: SargeantTex

I know you wont let the cat out of the bag but here is a list of planes that WITP didnt have that would be great in AE
1. F7F Tigercat

2.F8F Bearcat

3.Sea Hurricane

4.Kikka

5.Japanese version of ME163 (I forget what it was called)

6.Japanese G10 uberbomber

7.Karaya Ka-1 autogyro(I think that is the right name?)

I'd rather choose to have a big cat or a Shooting star, which were flying for real before the end of the war, rather than any additionnal Japanese what-if... [;)]
The Kikka would just be an improved kamikaze plane by the time we'd get it...

Edit: sorry I meant Shooting Star, not Starfire, of course [:o]

Who says you have to choose? [;)]



TheElf -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/22/2007 9:52:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

On the other hand, if a player were to extend the war through being more successfull as Japan, some of these what if's might have made it at least to testing or production.

It's not something that will be terribly difficult to add with the editor anyway.

BTW, the Kayaba Ka-1 was in service at the start of the war as an artillery observation aircraft, it was later modified to carry depth charges by removing the observers position.

Another interesting possibility is the Ki-201 Karyu, which would have been a reverse engineered Me-262. Something very possible if work had begun earlier and had the Japanese government actually taken interest and funded it. As we all know, the Me-262 was a proven design by the time the war ended.

We could come up with lots of experimentals that would be nice to produce, but its probably best left to the modders after the release of AE, otherwise the team may never finish AE in the first place. [:-]

Edit: some day I might learn to spell.


Correct. And though some What-if's will be in there they will not likely be available in Non-PDU games as an upgrade path. But they will be there for modder's and scenario builders.



TheElf -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/22/2007 9:58:53 PM)

ORIGINAL: Admiral Spruance

quote:

Just had a couple of questions regarding the modeling of the strategic bombing of Japan and if it will be changed in AE:

Will the USAAF be able to load inciendiary bombs on B-29s in early 1945 and make low altitude(5000 ft) night bombing manpower attacks with increased bomb loads and actually have a "reasonable" chance to start real firestorms?


We wanted to look at this and likely will, but it is OTS for now.

quote:

If the bomber attacks are going come in more fragmented will the fires started by each attack be additive in creating a firestorm?


OTS. Fragmentation or Non-Coordination is more likely when Bombers are not of the same type, same performance, or when the player selects different altitudes. In addition to the usual detractors of weather, relative distance, Leader values, etc.

B-29s will likely be coming from the same base, at the same altitude, and will perform the same. Unless the player selects different altitudes you should be ok.

quote:

The strategic bombing I have attempted on Japan....July 1944 to 1/1/45 it seemed that there were thunderstorms over Japan 28 out of 30 days a month. Will this be changed in AE?

Weather is OTS. We would like to do something with it, but is spans all wokring groups and would take some serious research. Maybe in the future.

quote:

Thanks


np[:)]



Shark7 -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/22/2007 11:59:24 PM)

The weather in WITP is modeled highly accurately....its as unpredictable in the game as it is in real life. [;)]



el cid again -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/24/2007 5:16:04 AM)

I don't know about that - rivers and lakes never freeze over in the North - Monsoons never occur in the tropics- sounds pretty predictable to me! However, IF someone will do some modified art - I will give you seasonal weather - anyway - after a year or two of pwhex programming.



Sequoia -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/27/2007 11:31:37 PM)

I assume the Soviet airforce will be seeing some new planes as well.



TheElf -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/28/2007 1:09:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sequoia

I assume the Soviet airforce will be seeing some new planes as well.

Indeed...



NormS3 -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/28/2007 7:47:17 PM)

Sorry I have not seen any answers to this previous post was hoping [;)] that someone could say no to them all[sm=sign0063.gif]. I know that you all are busy with holidays as well as the really important job of making Norm as sleepless, but for real thanks for all of your hard work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norm3

Couple pilot/instructor questions

Will pilots who are released to be instructors, be sent back to their original squadron later?
Is there still going to be mission limits for all allied pilots?
If so how does being an instructor affect that?
Are all allied pilots treated the same?  The Dutch, French, and Phillipino, pilots don't (most likely) have a home country to go to.
Will there be a chance to modify any of this in the editor or is it all hard coded?
Will there be a separate pool for Thai and Chicom Pilots?

Sorry for the salvo of questions, but thanks again for all of your answers.





TheElf -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/28/2007 10:07:17 PM)

ORIGINAL: Norm3

Couple pilot/instructor questions

quote:

Will pilots who are released to be instructors, be sent back to their original squadron later?

No. They will then be sent to the reserve pool for reassignment as veteran replacements

quote:

Is there still going to be mission limits for all allied pilots?

SAIEW. We did not touch this code.

quote:

If so how does being an instructor affect that?

Truth be told this system was meant to be for the IJ player as the Allies were never really short of fully trained RPs. And RPs, are like cakes, when they are done you take them out of the oven, Extra cooking doesn't make them taste better.

quote:

Are all allied pilots treated the same? The Dutch, French, and Phillipino, pilots don't (most likely) have a home country to go to.

see answer above. Unless I am misreading this.

quote:

Will there be a chance to modify any of this in the editor or is it all hard coded?

I believe so, but am not smart on the editor yet.

quote:

Will there be a separate pool for Thai and Chicom Pilots?

Thai pilots do not exist at this time.


quote:

Sorry for the salvo of questions, but thanks again for all of your answers.



Sorry Norm, you are right, holidays, family in town, sick kids, etc...




NormS3 -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/28/2007 10:19:11 PM)

Great thanks for the answers. Sorry about the sick kids. My brother managed to give his cold to me over x-mas, but I've already bounced back.

Just clarification on the one question. Are all allied pilots treated the same? The Dutch, French, and Phillipino, pilots don't (most likely) have a home country to go to.

I was asking if these pilots have mission limits, since they really don't have anywhere to go and there would be a limited demand for trainers, since their nations are occupied.

Also an editing question that you might be able to force me off on someone else.
Are the numbers of mission limits editable?

Thanks for all your fine work and the time you have taken to answer my questions.



TheElf -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/29/2007 12:59:14 AM)


ORIGINAL: Norm3

quote:

Great thanks for the answers. Sorry about the sick kids. My brother managed to give his cold to me over x-mas, but I've already bounced back.

Yes, holidays are bad. My first winter in a new country AND my oldest is in school for the first time...Just gotten over a month long bout with several popular viruses here.

quote:

Just clarification on the one question. Are all allied pilots treated the same? The Dutch, French, and Phillipino, pilots don't (most likely) have a home country to go to.

I was asking if these pilots have mission limits, since they really don't have anywhere to go and there would be a limited demand for trainers, since their nations are occupied.


There are finite numbers of these and are treated, as far as I know ,like the Japanese. That is they have nowhere to go and are eventually used up. Replacement rate are nearly 0, if not 0. Thomas or Michael may want to jump in and clarify if they have amplifying info...

quote:

Also an editing question that you might be able to force me off on someone else.
Are the numbers of mission limits editable?

I don't think so. Thomas? Michael?

quote:

Thanks for all your fine work and the time you have taken to answer my questions.

My pleasure.





akdreemer -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/29/2007 12:59:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Norm3

Great thanks for the answers. Sorry about the sick kids. My brother managed to give his cold to me over x-mas, but I've already bounced back.

Just clarification on the one question. Are all allied pilots treated the same? The Dutch, French, and Phillipino, pilots don't (most likely) have a home country to go to.

I was asking if these pilots have mission limits, since they really don't have anywhere to go and there would be a limited demand for trainers, since their nations are occupied.

Also an editing question that you might be able to force me off on someone else.
Are the numbers of mission limits editable?

Thanks for all your fine work and the time you have taken to answer my questions.


The French had their African colonies, which could serve as their home country. Dutch pilots historically were trained by the British after the fall of the DEI. Philippine airmen could be trained by US.



timtom -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/29/2007 2:29:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

ORIGINAL: Norm3

quote:

Just clarification on the one question. Are all allied pilots treated the same? The Dutch, French, and Phillipino, pilots don't (most likely) have a home country to go to.

I was asking if these pilots have mission limits, since they really don't have anywhere to go and there would be a limited demand for trainers, since their nations are occupied.


There are finite numbers of these and are treated, as far as I know ,like the Japanese. That is they have nowhere to go and are eventually used up. Replacement rate are nearly 0, if not 0. Thomas or Michael may want to jump in and clarify if they have amplifying info...

quote:

Also an editing question that you might be able to force me off on someone else.
Are the numbers of mission limits editable?

I don't think so. Thomas? Michael?





Ian is correct on both counts.



Speedysteve -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/30/2007 6:23:26 PM)

Hi guys,

Not sure if this has been mentioned already but how about the ability to hit multiple ships with bombs dropped from the same plane? And the 'other effects' that can occur with successful port attacks for example the German attack on Bari by 20 x Ju88 which sank 17 ships and badly damaged 8 others. Many of these ship casualties were caused by exploding adjacent ships. Is this kind of thing modelled in AE?



Mike Scholl -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/30/2007 8:53:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Hi guys,

Not sure if this has been mentioned already but how about the ability to hit multiple ships with bombs dropped from the same plane? And the 'other effects' that can occur with successful port attacks for example the German attack on Bari by 20 x Ju88 which sank 17 ships and badly damaged 8 others. Many of these ship casualties were caused by exploding adjacent ships. Is this kind of thing modelled in AE?



I think from my experiance in "testing" I can safely say no. Your example is a very specific instance of a very crowded harbor..., and won't translate into the more generalized "results" needed to reflect the broad variety of possibilities inherant in a game with as much scope as WITP.



Weidi72 -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/30/2007 9:00:36 PM)

There were about 80-100 bombers. I don`t know the exact number, but i can look for it.



Speedysteve -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (12/30/2007 9:20:22 PM)

Thanks for the response Mike amd Weidi you're correct. Not sure why I thought 20 when I only read about this event again in more detail yesterday[8|]



okami -> Japanese Aircraft Research and Production (12/31/2007 9:33:44 AM)

I have a suggestion I wonder if it could be implemented. I have run tests on Japanese Aircraft Research and I have found the following to be true. Aircraft marked rd do not cost supplies as they increase. I placed an Ki44rd factory at a base and made sure it never had 10,000 supplies, as the turns went by the number of aircraft increased even with this lack of supply. When the Ki44 finally came on line 9 days early the factory was producing at 100%. Here is my suggestion: Could the count on the aircraft factory be reset to 1 or 10% or and appropriate value when the factory first comes online and then the factory could ramp up at the usual cost of 1000 supply/airframe?



ny59giants -> RE: Japanese Aircraft Research and Production (1/1/2008 6:14:24 PM)

quote:

Also are carrier squadron fragments created on another CV or land bases after a battle now convertible to the core squadron when the carrier sinks? If not, can they at least draw replacement air frames now?


Jim Burns asked this question on page 2 during the initial onslaught of posting, but I did not see an answer. [:(]

I just had a CV vs CV and 2 fragments landed on another CV.
Will I be able to disband those fragments into existing squadrons?? I don't want fragments running around for 15 months waiting for the respawn version to come back. [:D]
If not, can they accept replacements??
Will I be able to destroy planes on a CV so I get below the 110% threshold to continue to launch missions??



Mike Solli -> RE: Japanese Aircraft Research and Production (1/2/2008 1:58:59 PM)

There's mention in one of the other AE threads about the ahistorical coordination between the IJAAF and the IJNAF.  Is there the possibility that the IJN and IJNAF base forces only support the IJNAF and the IJA base forces only support the IJAAF?



huggarn -> RE: Japanese Aircraft Research and Production (1/2/2008 2:23:18 PM)

Will there still be a limit on how many (total) of breakdown-units or will you be able to divide all your units?



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Japanese Aircraft Research and Production (1/2/2008 2:24:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

There's mention in one of the other AE threads about the ahistorical coordination between the IJAAF and the IJNAF.  Is there the possibility that the IJN and IJNAF base forces only support the IJNAF and the IJA base forces only support the IJAAF?


This is basically needed for all nations and all services...personally I'd like to see base forces be limited to specific aircraft types as well (at least suffer maintenance and armament penalties if aircraft other than those which you specialize are present), multiple types within a given service of course. Expenditure of supply needed to add an aircraft type, maximum number of types which a unit can support...etc

Of couse I'm in lala land.[:D]



Mike Solli -> RE: Japanese Aircraft Research and Production (1/2/2008 2:27:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Of couse I'm in lala land.[:D]



With the announcement of AE, I think we all are in lala land. [;)]



Mike Scholl -> RE: Japanese Aircraft Research and Production (1/2/2008 3:07:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
With the announcement of AE, I think we all are in lala land. [;)]




It's certainly brought on a truely remarkable spate of "wishfull thinking"....



NormS3 -> RE: Aircraft Fragments (1/3/2008 6:37:42 PM)

Hey Guys. Thanks for all of you answers and the time you took to further my desire for AE.



spence -> The super-searching Glen floatplane (1/3/2008 6:41:59 PM)

The sub-launched Glen floatplane was a reconnaisance plane; not a search plane. It should be limited to the recon role only (2 missions a day, 1 in each air phase, probably exceeded its capabilities).

With its cruise speed of just over 100 miles/hr, its need to be assembled prior to launch (and disassembled for stowage in the "hangar"), use of the Glen as a search plane with a 4 hex range (in Stock) flying 2 missions a day is beyond even the realm of fantasy (into the realm of utter impossibility). Any possibility that its mission capabilities could be limited to recon and training only. I know that the plane launched an attack on the US but in the event it was ineffective and not repeated.

I think I read herein that the later float attack planes that the IJN put on the I-400s is going to be included in AE. Let them have the honor of being an IJN "wunderwaffen".



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