HCE Westpac action

HCE Westpac action (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Modern] >> Larry Bond's Harpoon - Commander's Edition >> After Action Reports

Message

PatinAZ -> HCE Westpac action (12/11/2007 5:37:29 AM)
After downloading HCE last week, the fun and learning begins! Did a couple of the small scenarios to get my feet wet, then moved to Westpac. Played the Island Wind scenario, which I had played with HC2002, to see how it compared. May post comments on this separately. Mostly it played similar to the earlier version. Then I loaded up the Thanh Hoa bridge scenario. This one is interesting as I had read about that bridge as being one of the toughest targets in N. Vietnam. Had a book about the Air War in Vietnam, talking about F-105s (Thud), Wild Weasels, B-52s, etc. This is a partial action report as I haven't successfully completed it yet. Started it up. Sent out air patrols with the F-4 interceptors. 2 sets of 3 with a 3rd group about 10 minutes behind. Also launched a Hawkeye and an RA-5C (unescorted). And followed with a SEAD mission with 2 of the A-6Bs as the targets started getting located. Things got hot fast. Where did they get so many MIGs!!! And worse they kept popping up right on top of my planes! Not there at all and then suddenly 3 nm or less from my planes. The Phantoms held their own (1 or 2 losses) but they got the first RA-5C and the 2 from the SEAD mission. I abandoned the scenario to start over. Why is the air radar so bad? And how can a Mig-17 or a Mig-21 shoot down a recon at Vhigh? Tried again, putting up more of a fighter screen. 2 flights of 4 phantoms each and a flight of 3. put up the Hawkeye right away but kept it well back (but unescorted, another mistake). After waiting a bit for the fighters to start taking out MIGs, launched the first RA-5C with an escort. Wanted to keep the RA-5c at VH so it flew solo at 490 and 2 F-4s flew at Med at 500 to the same spot. These flew to right over the coastline maybe 60 miles behind the fighters. A second recon plane went out over the water, no escort but farther back. And a SEAD flight of 2 was launched with the planned target the Southernmost Med range radar. Lots of red fighters again and still popping up right on top of my planes (about half the time). Got 2 or 3 of the phantoms. One popped up right by the Hawkeye. Well behind the fighter screen, how did he get there. While trying to hustle the nearest phantoms to save it, down went the Hawkeye. I had the SEAD mission almost to firing range and within Sparrow range of the nearest phantom patrol. And guess what? Flight of Mig-21s pop up 2 miles from the Intruders. Oh #@#@! Phantoms fire a batch of Sparrows but down go both the Intruders before the MIGS die. Having lost half my standoff SEAD strike craft, I'm not happy with my status. I saved the game but not likely to continue. Not nearly ready to send the B-52s over. Strongly considering editing the scenario to add more Blue assets. Like more A-6b SEAD planes another 4 or 6. And a land base like DaNang with more fighters and maybe some attack assets. For now, starting the battleset scenario a 3rd time. Flying only interceptors with a Hawkeye behind them 50-60 miles. With 2 escorts. Have not got far yet but no disasters. Status is something like 12 to 1 on losses. About ready to launch recon plane and first SEAD flight up the coast to the closest of the radar and SAM bases. After the MIG action slows down some. Wish me luck. Pat in the desert (wet desert today)

TonyE -> RE: HCE Westpac action (12/13/2007 3:26:49 AM)
Thanh Hoa Bridge, I made that [8D]. I needed a lot of help though, Brad really came thru with database entries and a few people testing over and over again as we went thru 16 versions of the scenario to get it worthy of inclusion in the game. The Mig-21 and Mig-17 are quite stealthy as compared to the F-4. Mig-21 RCS=137, Mig-17=136, F-4=150. That means in the best of situations, the F-4 is going to detect the Migs at 9nm! The E-2B in the best of circumstances will spot them at 87nm, still scary, especially when the die roll goes bad repeatedly. Speed on the part of the RA-5C and F-4s as escort as far as possible seems to do the job, that or create a multiple air group diversion slightly away from the RA-5C to pull off the Red fighters. It sounds like you are finding ways though. Despite having made the scenario, the God view is much more my style, knowing where the enemy is all the time instead of this much more exposed feeling of this Vietnam era scenario.

PatinAZ -> RE: HCE Westpac action (12/13/2007 5:31:35 AM)
Thanks much for the commentary. And a tip of the hat for designing a scenario with a historical basis. I'm not complaining as it's good to have a challenge and plan out a good strategy. Just noting that the NViet air assets seem more numerous than they would have been at the time. I don't know what those RCS number mean, other than lower is stealthier. And probably almost any fighter is stealthier and more quiet than a Phantom. Also dealing with the F-4 when being more used to the modern generation of interceptors is a lesson in what was improved since then. Like the radar. From the book account that I had, some of the weapons were a little different. Of course I can't find the book as my wife has 'organized' my bookshelves. The precision weapons if they can be called that, were known as Bullpups and came in small and big varieties. The small ones caused barely a scratch on the reinforced concrete according to the account. Same was true of 500 lb iron bombs. Bullpups may have been land-based plane ordinance, I don't know that part. How does a Maverick compare to these? Pat in the desert

TonyE -> RE: HCE Westpac action (12/13/2007 5:45:41 PM)
Hehe, yes, the NV air assets are a bit out of proportion but more out of place, wandering (far) out into the Gulf wasn't exactly a daily activity for swarms of Migs. Not that it didn't happen, a few Talos flew.

PatinAZ -> RE: HCE Westpac action (12/16/2007 2:18:35 AM)
I completed the scenario and was awarded a victory. Just barely. I continued using the phantoms to make as good of a screen as I could between the MIGs and the attack planes and the recons. Split the 4 A-6b planes into 2 flights of 2 and started sending them to attack the radar stations and the longer-ranged SAMs. The stand-alone radars would be destroyed if 2 or 3 of the SEAD missiles hit. But the SA-2s had more damage points they were tougher. As Radars were reduced started sending in flights of A-7s with the Maverick loadouts, which would keep them out of reach, mostly, of the gun AAW and the shorter ranged SAMs. And also flights of the A-6a with the precis loadout of the 10-mile version of the Walleye. This was working fairly well. I was flying kind of a 2-wave pattern, where one bunch of planes would be attacking the targets while the other group would be reloading. Then when the first group comes off the target or a few minutes later, the other group would get ready and go. But the MIGs kept popping up, sometimes on top of the fighters and would get off cannon fire or short-range missiles. I kept losing phantoms 1 or 2 at a time, even though I had shot down 60+ of his planes eventually. I started to run short of phantoms to screen with. Also one flight got too close to an SA-2 battery when escorting, and a couple got taken out. And a flight of 3 A-7s went right over 2 of the gun AAW sites while I was distracted, and it got them all. So there was about 3 and a half hours left on the clock and half of the AAW sites were gone and few more had some damage. I launched the B-52 in 2 waves. Some had been re-equipped to the GP payload to help make sure. These went to Hi alt to get there a bit faster and instead of attacking directly, went to a spot SSE of the bridge to try to get off-line of some of the AAW sites. A couple more of the attack planes went down while the B-52s were flying up as I was trying to get a last crack at the SAMs and guns. This took me to 24 destroyed aircraft and Red was givrn a minimum victory. Since I had the bombers halfway there already, we played on. The bombers came in and did their thing and the bridge was destroyed. But as the bombers got over target and immediately after, they started going down one after the other. I didn't check the count of the destroyed B-52s as the victory was awarded but it was probably 6 or 7. So it didn't feel like much of a victory. I would have to rate this as a challenging scenario and not for beginners. I think I spent too much time wiping out the radar and AAW sites that were well south of the bridge and should have moved up to the complex around the bridge sooner. I was working S to N and trying to take out everything. When I started to run low on fighters it got pretty risky. I could have landed and re-armed all the planes then went in for one final all-out wave before the B-52s went in. That might have maximized the fighter coverage. So I might play it again as is and see if I can do better. But I'm also tempted to take it into the scenario editor and add a few assets, then give it another shot. 4 or even 2 more SEAD planes would help. And maybe put in DaNang as a land base and put in some fighters there. Enough for now, out. Pat in the desert Not to be confused with the Patrick that you dedicated the mission to!

JRyan -> RE: HCE Westpac action (12/17/2007 6:44:19 PM)
I actually played this one, Thanh Hoa Bridge, and just wanted to give it a shot right off the bat. I launched everything I had to kill the bridge and although the losses were higher than if I would have taken time to micro the scen I was rewarded with a victory after the first attack......I will have to go back at some point to try again.

PatinAZ -> RE: HCE Westpac action (12/18/2007 3:18:56 AM)
Wow! (sound of jaw dropping). One big wave?[&o] Did you coordinate with the B-52s or just use the carrier? And go with the loadouts they start with. Coordinating the time-on-target or not? All Attack assets aimed at the bridge? 24 aircraft losses triggers the Red minimum victory. I would think you were close. That thicket of guns and SAMs ripped up my B-52s even after I took out half of the AAW and most of the radars. I was trying to go with what I thought was the intent of the scenario, which was from how I read it, to suppress the Red aircraft and air defenses using the carrier planes, then bring in the B-52s to finish the bridge. And to bring in the B-52s on High as I don't think they ever came down low even over S. Vietnam. But it's a game and any approach is fine. Might have to try it your way, just to see it! The MIGs don't concentrate so going in big numbers should overwhelm them. But I don't know know about the guns and missiles. They seemed pretty effective to me. Pat

JRyan -> RE: HCE Westpac action (12/18/2007 3:18:07 PM)
The Bridge was gone before the arrival of the B-52's. I reset the load outs to attack except for the fighters, then launched. I lost a lot of aircraft but 24 would seem a bit much. hmmm I too will have to try this one again. Like I said I had one hour to play and I said what the heck, give it a shot and it worked. EDIT: I think the Walleyes took the bridge out at 4 miles. One thing is that I did not launch at the first opportunity, I waited until more 'ammo' was in range..

Page: [1]

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.375