New guy question about units and generals (Full Version)

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Fire Eater -> New guy question about units and generals (12/11/2007 9:09:20 PM)

I am a new player about half way through my first intermediate level game (using generals). I like the game very much but a few things are not clear in the instructions to me even though I have read ahead in the manual.

I cannot find what level general is required for certain specific levels of Union units and ask the following questions:

1. Are union armies the same as as Departments (such as Dept of the Ohio) and the 3 wings of the Army of the Potomac and if so, how many stars is a general required to have to maximize unit strength of each - 4? If 4 stars are required, why do most of the Departments only have 3 star generals when the game begins?

2. When do army corps come into the game - only if I create some? If so, do they fit as units under armies, departments, and wings of the Army of the Potomac or are they just permanently independent attachment boxes?

3. Why would I want to create a corps - to use as an attachment box for divisions to make them stronger than acting individually and to move as a stack, or some other reasons?

Thanks for any insight.

Fire Eater




jkBluesman -> RE: New guy question about units and generals (12/11/2007 9:47:29 PM)

This is probably not the right place to ask these questions, but I try to answer:

1. On the right side of the unit name you get the information whether it is an army, a corps or division. Another possibility to find out is to look on the Military screen where all your units are listed.

2. You may rename departments as corps or whatever you like. The reason these names are there is historical.

3. Yes, with the help of corps you get more divisions in an army plus units in a corps get certain bonuses when fighting together as well as the corps commander may raise their quality, teach abilities and rally units of his group.



Fire Eater -> RE: New guy question about units and generals (12/12/2007 1:29:53 AM)

Where is a better place to post questions?

1. It seems in the game that a department can either be a corps, division, or perhaps even an army. Historially (at least in Dyer's Compendium of the War of the Rebellion), armies and departments were considered on the same level.

2. But do corps appear at some point in the game or do I always have create them? And, are they independent units or may they be fitted into the Army of the Potomac as a military organization between the army name and its divisions as was the actually case?

3. So three divisions fighting as one corps in a battle in a province would be stronger than three divisions fighting there as separate units?

The problem with trying to model this historially in the game is the Union was always reorganizing its units into new groups with different names, numberings and commanders. Trying making the flags fit the type unit seems a maze to resolve too.

Thanks for your answers.



Gil R. -> RE: New guy question about units and generals (12/12/2007 1:54:38 AM)

Fire Eater,
I'll see if I can answer everything that jkBluesman didn't touch on.

First, this main part of the forum is the place to ask questions. You originally posted the thread in the modding area, where it will be seen by fewer people.

What you're getting confused by reflects some of the changes in the game's evolution since release. Essentially, as jkBluesman explained, the names of these different forces don't mean anything in terms of gameplay. Essentially, we have just three types of mobile "containers" -- armies, corps and divisions -- and these vary in maximum capacity. In several cases, we have named divisions "Army of X" because those historical forces had that name, but also were division-sized. If we made every force that was called an "army" an actual army it would throw off the game considerably, since both sides would start with many more armies than there were. As for military departments, that again is a historical name, and not meant to reflect any difference from armies/corps/divisions. Another change you've picked up on is that some generals in the starting OOB's have more stars than they need to command their forces. This again is based on history: we have generals start with a number of stars that approximates their actual rank. Thus, for example, Benjamin Butler starts the July scenario as a 4-star general commanding a division container called the "Department of Virginia," located inside Ft. Monroe.

Those army wings for the AOP in the November scenario are each regular army containers, but just named that way. The alternative would have been to expand the capacity of army containers so that the entire AOP could be a single army, but this had some gameplay problems. (Anyone can make this change through simple modding, though.)

Corps can be put inside army containers, if there's enough space for them. You'd want to create them -- which you can do at any time -- because divisions will fight better when under the command of a corps leader who is himself under an army commander, than if they're directly commanded by the army commander. Also, having that extra general in there gives you additional chances each turn of having one of your units gain in quality or learn a new ability (as jkBluesman points out). And divisions definitely fight better under a corps commander than if fighting separately.

I hope this helps. Welcome to the forum, and the game (if it's possible to welcome someone to a game; but you know what I mean).



Ironclad -> RE: New guy question about units and generals (12/12/2007 12:06:43 PM)

Fire Eater:

My usual practice when starting a new game is to rename all those divisions and corps that have a unique name by giving them a numerical number in the sequence (ie 1 Division, 1st Corps etc). I use the same number that they are already listed as so that there is no overlap with those already named numerically. It loses the historical connections but I find it easier to follow. I do give my armies regional names though.



Gil R. -> RE: New guy question about units and generals (12/12/2007 7:47:42 PM)

And remember that we have countless flags that you can assign, which makes spotting particular armies/corps/divisions easier.



Fire Eater -> RE: New guy question about units and generals (12/13/2007 9:39:35 PM)

Gil's explanations of the present unit structure was quite helpful. But, I am still not sure where he wants these inquiries posted.

Is it at http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/? If so, I had a hard time finding that location and it would not be a place I would look for specific questions about FoF. Wouldn't it be easier for everyone to just create a category in the FoF forum called "Gameplay questions"?

Although the unit organization scheme is now clear (and is workable) to me, what is puzzling is that the Army of the Potomac is set up as 3 armies. It seems more logical (and historial) if it were just one army lead by one 4 star general and what are now 3 "sub"-armies be instead 3 corps. If a player wants more corps in the Army of the Potomac (as was often the historial case), he could always create them on his own.

But, I imagine there is a reason for the 3 armies instead of 3 corps in the Army of the Potomac, such as the need for 4 star leadership in each group to combat the very strong Army of Northern Virginia.

I find the use of flags to make identifying units on the map much quicker. I use Shep's flag mods as an aid because his are more numerous.

But, although I can label the 3 armies of the Army of the Potomac as corps, I can't use corps flags because the army flag menu only displays army flags (and not any for the corps). There is only one flag for the Army of the Potomac and no other good alternatives. The only way to resolve the flag problem easily that I can see with the present structure is to have 3 Army of the Potomac flags, each with a large white number 1, 2, or 3 superimposed on it. That would make the Potomac armies much easier to work with on the map.

Hope these thoughts and questions aren't offensive. I realize I haven't be around long enough with this game to question anything. I really like game a lot.

Fire Eater



jkBluesman -> RE: New guy question about units and generals (12/13/2007 11:36:26 PM)

Gil has already moved the thread to the correct forum. So where you posted you last reply and where your post is now, is the perfect place.
You might want to look at another function of the containers. Some of them might have bad ratings, that is logistical and such, so their movements are not as good as you might want to. To build better new corps units and replace bad army containers might be pretty useful.



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