RE: Combat Report: Sept 5-8, 1943 (Full Version)

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Mike Solli -> RE: Combat Report: Sept 5-8, 1943 (5/30/2008 4:51:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

quote:

Thus, no more loading of supplies onto AKs for a few days to allow the AI to move it around (hopefully). We have 3 converted airframe factories at Sasebo that don't repair as that base doesn't hold supplies (1488). The solution is moving a HQ there or what??


In my game Vs you, I tried that, In fact from memory I tried two HQ's there for a while, had Engineers there too, it took months to achieve anything ... I never came up with a viable solution. Later I even tested it, and couldn't make it work well unless I had an abundance of Supplies everywhere. I never posted a bug report, but it certainly is annoying. Sasebo is one of those ports where IJN players often unload and hence, it must have a "super officious" logistics Officer.

I'll never change my production choices at Sasebo again.

I just wonder, how's that Oil/Oil Transportation? Answer when you get a chance ... back to programming for me & then a few beers at my local.

[edit]Also, often I find it better to transport surplus supply from Korea/Manchuko to Japan.


I have had the same problem with Sasebo. I've tried shipping supply, flying supply, HQs.... No luck. Supply gets moved out as quickly as you bring it in. Just one of those quirky things....



ny59giants -> RE: Combat Report: Sept 5-8, 1943 (5/30/2008 4:54:58 PM)

The Oil transport is going well. What I need to do next (or pass on to John) is getting the TF usage to be more economical. I guess I've played the Allies for too long and am used to having mega-fuel everywhere. [:D] I'm going to try to get some of them (TKs) into shipyards for sys repair. I have more TKs than Oil to be transported. Ideally, I want to use the 11k TKs for Oil and the 6k for fuel.

To computer "geeks" [;)] - I just got my new 22" monitor. Sweet!! How do I set it up so the display of the wider post is automatic vs me using the slide at the bottom of the screen to see the whole post??  Thanks in Advance. [&o] 



John 3rd -> RE: Combat Report: Sept 5-8, 1943 (5/30/2008 5:54:47 PM)

Barring a miracle Michael there is NEVER enough Fuel to go around as the Japanese.  There have been several times when I have found an Allied TK convoy and WISHED I could capture it instead of sink it!  I think the game does model that pretty accurately.

Dan is out for the day so there won't be any turns played and I want to work on my battleplan.

I need to post for the last turn because it APPEARS dan is withdrawing to the east.  His CVs moved east 2-3 hexes along with about 10 other TF.  I don't know if he is moving away to Midway or not.  The next turn will probably show that.

If he is doing that then that changes everything.  There are still a BUNCH of AK/AP/TK/MSW at Iwo Jima.  He is MSW the heck out of the hex.  He should have all my mines out pretty soon...

Does this present an opportunity with his CV potentially leaving?   Hmmm....

I will post the organization of my CV TF later today as I plan for battle.

As to the economic Tony/Kawasaki Engine shortfall, I plan to shift another 50-75 research points over to Frank to start moving that valuable aircraft foreward.  I was able to bring the new Tony up THREE months, perhaps the same can be done for the early model of Mr. Frank.


Thanks for--yet another--lurker making his presense known!  Good to have you.



John 3rd -> New Developments (5/30/2008 6:03:31 PM)

Dan begins some sort of movement with a major portion of his Fleet...



[image]local://upfiles/18041/06CCA8EA2E0549368D43C124BF425011.jpg[/image]



Nemo121 -> RE: New Developments (5/30/2008 6:22:16 PM)

In EA I olve this by simply basing a squadron of Ki-264s there. Their extremely large load means they require huge amounts of supply to remain in service each month and thus they draw the supply to Sasebo and keep it there.

You can acheive the same result with a few Sentai of Tabbys at Sasebo. Once they hold supplies above 9,000 ( ideally about 20,000 ) you'll be just fine.


As to his ships moving East. When the enemy does exactly what you want then you can be sure you are misreading the situation [:D]. He won't be withdrawing east without all those APs, AKs etc.



John 3rd -> RE: New Developments (5/30/2008 7:45:47 PM)

On the next turn I will move a hoste of Transport planes there and see what happens.  I assigned and moved 5th Air Fleet to Sasebo.

Air Recon detected a force of 38 Fighters, 18 Bombers, and 46 Aux planes at Iwo:  Total 102.  AF is only 4 so there can only be 200 planes max.  We'll watch the see if this number rises (uncrating planes).

I am loading 4th Infantry Division at Townsville right now.  They will be posted somewhere between Okinawa--Formosa--and the Philippines...



John 3rd -> RE: New Developments (5/30/2008 8:11:41 PM)

By September 15th (3 Turns) I will have the following available at Combined Fleet HQ:

9 CV
5 CVL
6 CVE
4 BB/BC
13 CA (9 14,000+)
12 CL (1 Modern)
58 DD (4 AA DD)

In Tokyo Bay will be to only other significant portion of the Fleet:

2 BB
2 CA (1 14,000+)
2 CL (1 Modern)
14 DD (3 AA DD)

Once my sons take their nap I will shuffle and organize the shipping as well as provide a complete layout of the aircraft available on the ships and in the Marianas--Tokyo area.



John 3rd -> Combat Report: Sept 9-11, 1943 (5/30/2008 11:07:54 PM)

Combat Report
September 9-11, 1943
 
The Bonins
Sub Action
Sept 9th  Ro-33 hits a TK with 2 TT and sinks an LCI at Iwo.  I-123 is hit by ASW while mining.
S-44 misses a rather big target named Yamato at Pagan!
I-171 hits an AO with 1 TT

Sept 10th  I-171 sinks and LCI at Iwo.  I-153 is sunk after being hit by LBA THREE times at the same location.
SS Albacore hits a PC at Palau

Sept 11th  I-174 hits a DD with 1 TT but is then sunk by ASW and LBA at Iwo.  Ro-63 and I-171 sunk by the same! 
Ro-62 hits an LST with a TT and Guns at Tori Shima.

Damn...order my boats out of the area to refuel and replenish at Tokyo.

3rd Naval Battle of Tori Shima (Sept 11th)
I send in 6 old DD to keep Dan's attention.  In a series of 6 seperate engagements, I lose DD Sawakaze and have another hit by a TT in exchange for 6 PT, 1 AK, and 1 LST.

Tokyo Strike
With Dan pulling a portion of the Fleet out, some of my planes launch a strike to the SE of Tori Shima.  A group of 11 Z and 20 B hit 3 LSTs.

Iwo Jima
Dan's forces still cannot get a decent attack made against my remaing troops here.  They still hold most of Surabachi.  He cannot get more then a 3-1 attack.  My boys stay there and serve as harrassment to the Americans.

Indochina
Since the end of my evacuation of Rangoon was pretty chaotic, I have ordered various surviving units to meet at various locations so they can recombine and refit their strength.  Dan hasn't moved from Rangoon and I will use as much time as I can get for his move into Moulmein.

On the 11th I have a Combat Command arrive at Siem Reap.  They will retake the AF from the Indian Paratroopers tomorrow.

China
I have so darned many planes flying strikes against Chinese troops that I cannot even tell you.  There are probably 12-14 fighter units and an equal number of bomber units in the attack.  The fighters are desperately trying to train and get their experience up to a minimum of 70 before moving to either Hanoi or Mukden to upgrade their aircraft and deploy into a combat zone.



John 3rd -> Air Group Question (5/30/2008 11:49:46 PM)

I am working on my TF dispositions and am amazed at the firepower I possess.

Something grabbed my eye and I will ask the question here:

1.  I need to have my air group change out.  They are all still at the original 1/3--1/3--1/3 mix from the start of the war.  Do I need to change their status to 'accept replacements?'

2.  As per Nemo's and other thoughts, I will load up on Fighters.  All 6 CVE will carry fighters for CAP.  I think (as per House Rules) that I must limit my CV CAP to 60%.  Since I don't remember which set of house rules we are using, I wrote Dan to send me his set.  IF there is no such limit then I will modify even further...

3.  Looks 6 CV TF and 2 STF for the tentative Kaigun formation...

Will post more when I have completed my Table of Organization.

Need to know about the Air Group change question.



John 3rd -> RE: Air Group Question (5/31/2008 12:38:59 AM)

I went through and made an initial TF Organization for the upcoming battle and tallied (this is with conventional CV/CVL loadout and ALL CVE only carrying Fighters) a total of 460 Fighters, 216 DB, and 248 TB.  Going with this number I would have 414 CAP @ 90%, 368 CAP @ 80%, and 324 CAP @ 70%.  This is using 5 Daitai of Fighters on my CVEs.

I have 4 more Daitai of Fighters available where I could offload more Strike Aircraft while bumping my Fighter Total to 522.  Math yields 470 CAP @ 90%, 418 CAP @ 80%, etc...

IF I go through with this massive Fighter load, then I figure I should simply offload all my DB/TB so they don't get massacred during the battle.  Once Day 1 is done then I can fly them in and swing HARD! 

Edit--Should note that I can place 144 Tony and 36 Tojo on Pagan and assign them to LRCAP as well. That would be 180 Army Fighters: 50% would add 90 to CAP, 25% would add 45 to CAP. Even 'just' 45 Tony would make QUITE the impact!



Nemo121 -> RE: Air Group Question (5/31/2008 1:30:30 AM)

John 3rd,

Tips to get the game to do what you need it to do - CV reactions F up your CV TFs by causing them to end up in different hexes at the end of a turn - thus dislocating your CAP.

SOOO, how do you stop this?

1. Again I disagree that you need 2 x SC TFs. You need ONE ( I'll explain why later ) but the ships in the second could go to strengthen your CV TF AAA defences and, IMO, they should.

2. Set ALL your AIR COMBAT TFs to FOLLOW the SC TF. The SC TF won't react and the chances of your CV TFs reacting when they have a follow command of an SC TF are minimal. So you avoid that stupid AI boondogle.

3. Since the SC TF is present you can send your IJA fighters to LRCAP that TF. In so doing you will NOT fall foul of the 75% reduction in their CAP strength. So, just with that one change you could increase your CAP by almost 50%. If you set them to LRCAP the AC TF they will LRCAP at 25% but LRCAP the SCTF and they do it at full strength.

Since hex-wide CAP is an aberration in any case I don't see this as being unrealistic personally ( many others would, I'm sure, disagree ).

One other benefit of not using the dive-bombers and torpedo-bombers on Day 1 is that it will give you a LOT of free deck space such that even if Day 1 goes badly you should be able to recover a lot of those fighters, rebase them on serviceable CVs and use them again.  I think, though, that you should really do your damnedest to fly EVERY Zero you have on-map into this area though. Damn the transfer losses and fly them onto those CVs. 400 on CAP is good, throw in the other 180 IJA fighters but then scrape the bottom of the barrel everywhere and fly in every damned Zero you have. This is no time for moderation, I can't believe you ONLY have 4 more Zero daitai on the whole map. If this truly is the decisive battle then why aren't they here?




John 3rd -> RE: Air Group Question (5/31/2008 1:40:14 AM)

Nemo,

I already new about the STF rule on LR CAP which is why I was including one.  I will fllow through and clear the decks of everything but fighters. 

I have 7 Daitai of A3/A3a/Jacks at Saipan, 2 at Aparri, 2 in Tokyo, and 2 at Truk.  I am upgrading to M5 and Jacks as fast as possible right now.

Do you know the answer for air group modifications?

Will write more in a bit.




Nemo121 -> RE: Air Group Question (5/31/2008 2:08:54 AM)

As far as I know they should just change automatically at a specific date... I don't know more about it than that though. I have heard it is hard-coded and thus out of your control though.



John 3rd -> RE: Air Group Question (5/31/2008 2:18:20 AM)

NONE of my original six CV Air Groups have upgraded.  Hmmm...



John 3rd -> Operation Nakri (5/31/2008 4:07:53 PM)

Operation Nakri
Order-of-Battle
 
Once I am fully gathered at Saipan, this is the TF Organization for the Kaigun:
 
CTF-1             Adm Nagumo
CV Akagi         24—24—24
CV Kaga         24—24—24
CVL Ryuho      18—00—12
 
BB Yamato
CA Atago, Chokai
CL Oyodo
DD 8
 
CTF-2             Adm Nobutani
CV Hiryu         21—21—21
CV Soryu         21—21—21
CVL Ryujo      28—00—19
 
BC Kongo
CA Tone, Chikuma
CL 1
DD 8
 
CTF-3             Adm Yamaguchi
CV Shokaku    24—24—24
CV Zuikaku     24—24—24
CVL Shoho      18—00—12
 
BC Hiei
CA Myoko, Takao
CL 1
DD 8
 
CTF-4             Adm Ozawa
CV Unryu        24—24—16
CV Amagi        24—24—16
CVE Hosho     05—00—05
CVE Shinyo     33
 
BC Haruna
CA Nachi, Ashigara
CL 1
DD 7
 
CTF-5
CV Taiho         27—27—18
CVL Zuiho       18—00—12
CVE Kaiyo      18
CVE Taiyo       27
CS Nisshin       24 FP
 
CA Haguro, Mogami
CL 2
DD 7
 
CTF-6
CVL Chiyoda   27
CVE Unyo       27
CVE Chuyo     27
CS Mizuho       20 FP
 
CA Suzuya, Kumano
CL 2
DD 7
 
STF-1              Adm Tanaka
CA Aoba
CL 4
DD 13
 
This is the OOB fighting in a conventional manner with Air Groups unchanged.  Aircraft composition would be:  460 Fighters, 216 Dive Bombers, 248 Torpedo Bombers.
 
I will repost this OOB with the Fighters changes made once I finish gathering all the planes and ships at Saipan.
 
Need 2 more Carrier Admirals---Anyone got a recommendation?



n01487477 -> RE: Operation Nakri (5/31/2008 4:52:05 PM)

John,
Sorry about the picture quality ...

I guess others have a better idea than me ... but here is a list with both Naval and Air skill ...

Obviously, this is taken from my game, so I have no idea how your Leaders have progressed skill wise, but maybe it is a start.


[image]local://upfiles/19798/9404672803C24E30ADC2F11003A0A07A.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: Operation Nakri (5/31/2008 5:14:18 PM)

n01...how did you do that?  Is that a Tracker function?  I have NEVER been able to actually organize the Japanese leadership by catagory.

Just sent the 9/13 round to Dan.  His CTF have stayed near Iwo.  He is NOT moving east.  If he hold there for 2-3 days then Operation Nakri will commence...



n01487477 -> RE: Operation Nakri (5/31/2008 5:53:38 PM)

John,
yes, it's a WitpTracker function, maybe after the ensuing battle (& when you have time)you should have a play with it & give us some feedback..

It's still being refined & has its shortcomings, but ... well maybe I should leave that up to the WITP community to give a verdict... (it works for Allies too)

You might not use it every turn, but as an overall reference and tracking tool, with a lot of functionality, it does the job.




John 3rd -> RE: Operation Nakri (5/31/2008 6:02:20 PM)

It is Damian right?

The Tracker seems to be magnificent.  Michael keeps posting stuff that is amazing in scope and etail.  Things I could never imagine following and looking at every day.  Magnificent Sir!

Big B Note:  Brian--I know with AE coming out you will either be out-of-business with the Mod or having to start all over but I would like to note that truly think you have made the Chinese WAY too powerful in this Mod.  It should be a stalemate in China but it isn't.  I have HORDES of Chinese attacking in Burma, Hanoi area, AND China.  The amount of troops I have had to move back into these theatres is HUGE and never were like this in the real war.  Just my .02...



John 3rd -> RE: Operation Nakri (5/31/2008 6:11:21 PM)

Just checked with Dan and there is NO CAP requirement within House Rules so I will follow Nemo's advice.  Once the Fleet fully reaches Saipan, I will disband it, reform it, and shuffle planes.  This will require upgrades and extensive changes so I am moving supply there.  I have a real fuel concern as well.  There is 40,000 fuel there but I have a BUNCH of ships.  Have ordered severl TK TF to go to full speed (90,000 Fuel) and get there as fast as possible.



ny59giants -> RE: Operation Nakri (5/31/2008 8:36:00 PM)

quote:

There is 40,000 fuel there but I have a BUNCH of ships. Have ordered severl TK TF to go to full speed (90,000 Fuel) and get there as fast as possible.


I've been working on it. Honestly, I've been working on it. [:D]



ny59giants -> RE: Operation Nakri (5/31/2008 8:41:34 PM)

Here is a list of leaders sorted by air skill.
I keep telling John to install Tracker, but......[:D]

[image]local://upfiles/15133/505039E4904E4D868662526FEACA5B90.jpg[/image]



ny59giants -> RE: Operation Nakri (5/31/2008 8:48:30 PM)

Here is latest Naval Ship Building. The next 30 days has 3 PC becoming available and not until day 35 does another DD come in. Thus, we should be able to get some sort of surplus soon (585 worth will be done within a month).



[image]local://upfiles/15133/E62CBA5A0AEF451986B7C56245C91E5D.jpg[/image]



ny59giants -> RE: Operation Nakri (5/31/2008 8:52:11 PM)

Slowly, but surely. [8D]

[image]local://upfiles/15133/B0CACAFFE23A4857B9F1000552E6BFDD.jpg[/image]



ny59giants -> RE: Operation Nakri (5/31/2008 8:54:04 PM)

Steady as she goes.

[image]local://upfiles/15133/A1FE571E1BE649E2A4A1B5B1CC7CB8E2.jpg[/image]



Nemo121 -> RE: Operation Nakri (5/31/2008 9:10:20 PM)

Couple of problems:

1. You are mixing CVEs and CVs/CVLs. I would, if I were you, put all the CVEs in a single TF with the CVs and CVLs mixing together. Reason being that the CVEs are so slow they are going to mess up the accompanying CVLs and CVs.

2. WiTP Tracker rules.. Seriously, I've only used it for the past couple of days ut it just makes the information you need o accessible. You should really try installing it and giving it a try.

3. Don't remember that while you are trying to gather together for an attack your opponent might be also. Don't wait for your fleet to be fully gathered at Saipan before re-organising it. Organise it as best you can now and then fill it out as more units arrive. What would happen if he sprinted south and launched a port attack or somesuch on your fleet before it was combat-organised?



John 3rd -> RE: Operation Nakri (5/31/2008 9:24:55 PM)

I have thought about a surprise attack.  My CAP is set for 80% on Saipan and on my CV TF.  If he wants to come down and deal with that it will be the result as if we had fought the planned battle!  Might even welcome that attack!

Tracker and I are having issues.  Michael is going to help me and we get it in place today or tomorrow. 

We're trying to do the same thing with your Mod.  He has sent an opening turn but I cannot get it loaded correctly.  I tried to copy my RHS Version and then add your to it but the map is all messed up.  Michael wants to do a copy of standard WitP and then add to it.  Thoughts on that Sir?

I think I will split my CVEs into 3 TF of 2 each.  All they are to do is provide a deck for 27 Fighters.  By creating THREE TF targets to go with the other CTF and STF, I have a real chance of any 'leakers' hitting something OTHER then my prized CV/CVLs.





Nemo121 -> RE: Operation Nakri (6/1/2008 12:25:36 AM)

John,

While it is true to say EA uses RHS EOS as a base I diverged from that about 18 months ago and right now I have different planes, different LCUs, different devices, an entirely different economic/logistics model, different production rationales, different art etc. Even the maps are different.

What I've done is use a stock WiTP install and then just copy the files from akdreemer's site into the appropriate places ( scen files into scenario folder, map files into the map folder ( and you have to rename them ) and PWHEX into the root file of WiTP ). That works fine. I don't have any RHS scenarios or folders on my computer but anecdotaly people who install EA over RHS tend to have problems so I don't recommend that.


As to the idea with the CVEs. Good idea, higher risk of losing them, lower risk of losing the CVs/CVLs. In other words your total loss potential is higher but your loss potential in key classes is less. Ruthless. Good.



John 3rd -> RE: Operation Nakri (6/1/2008 12:44:53 AM)

I like being called ruthless at this point.

Just got turn from Dan.  He cleared the last of my mines from Iwo this turn (9/13) and has EVERYTHING at Iwo.  This means he won't be moving very quickly for at least a day or two.  Iwo's Port just went to 2--got to love those American Seabees--and will probably hit 3 by the end of the month.  I want to cause chaos before that happens so he cannot disband into there yet.

I decided that Nagato/Mutsu might be able to make a run around the edge of the perimeter so they shot out about 8 hexes due east of Tokyo and this turn at set for Full Speed towards Marcus.  They will then angle SW towards Saipan.  Having those 20 warships would really help (2 BB, 2 CA, 2 CL, and 12 DD).

Nemo--Michael said the same thing about the install.  We will get it done today.  Got to get my sons to actually SLEEP right now!



John 3rd -> Combat Report: Sept 12-13, 1943 (6/1/2008 7:27:38 AM)

Combat Report
Sept 12-13, 1943
 
I got all excited when I saw Dan split his Fleet but everything came back together at Iwo Jima.

The Bonins
Iwo Jima
Dan has been MSW everyday here and finally clears off my minefield on the 13th.  Can imagine all thos ehsips of his now unloading.  The Seabees raise the Port to 2 on the 13th as well.  As I said earlier, I would like to force the fight before he can develop a Sz-3 Port to Disband into.  it appears that there is an average of 65-70 Hellcats and 15-20 Corsairs flying CAP here.

Tori Shima
I begin nuisance bombings of Tori Shima's Port with a Sentai of Nicks.  They don't do much damage but it should slow down his Forts and Port expansion.  There are 3 units with about 10,000 men landed here.

Chichi Jima
Much smaller garrision of about 2,500 men and 2 units.

The Marianas
Saipan
The Fleet is concentrated on the 13th.  I dsiband everything for two days and on the 15th will reform and plan to give battle.  Just upgraded a Daitai of Jacks as well as Zekes.  Might be able to do 2 more by the 15th/16th.  I hope to add the Nagato Group by the 16th.  If I can slip them around and add them to the Fleet then I will wait.  If I cannot then I will attack.

This island has nearly 300 LBA Fighters now.

Pagan
Though not part of the island group I include it here.  There are nearly 200 Army Fighters here ready to support the navy when it sorties.  Have an Aviation Regiment in Guam loading to land here by the 15th.

Guam
Holding most of my Bombers, Dive Bombers, and Torpedo Bombers, Guam is the backstop to the other islands.

Supply/Fuel
As said earlier, Fuel is an issue and by waiting the extra days I may be able to bring in a shipment of 44,000 Fuel to top off my ships.  If not, I should be able to sail without issue but would like to have plenty.  Supplies are coming in the form of several TF and they should serve to keep the islands well stocked.

Okinawa
This island is a concern as Michael has mentioned.  Since Dan has done NO Recon since taking Iwo, I have not felt it to be a crisis but things are moving there now.  A total of 5 units got their marching orders:  2 Engineering Regiments in China, 2 Construction Btn in Korea, and the 41st Infantry Division in Tokyo.  These will help to buttress the island pretty quickly.  There are 72 Tony and 63 Bombers stationed here right now.

Burma/Indochina
There has been little movement here for a while and I am enjoying every day of it!  The combat values of beat-up units is climbing at Hanoi, Haiphong, Moulmein, and Bangkok.  If I could get a month of time...

Siem Reap
My Combat Command arrives here and handily drives the Indian Paratroopers and Chinese Corps out of the base and induces them to surrender!  Into the bag go nearly 2,000 PoW.  A small victory but nice nonetheless.

32,36
North of Bangkok and Pisanaluke, this hex has held 3 Chinese Corps for nearly a month.  I decide to drive them back and do so on the 12th and 13th netting 3-1 attacks both days.  The Chinese are forced to retreat by the 51st and 55th Inf Div, 3rd Tk Div, a TK Reg, and 2 Para Reg.  Will try to push them back up that road another 2 hexes to the trails... 

Convoy Action
Dan tries to test my defenses by slipping 4 AK into Rangoon on the 12th.  They are met by Lily, Betty, and Kate bombers and are sunk before making Port.  Actually, 1 makes Port but had taken 3 Bombs and 1 Mine when it entered Harbor.  I expect it to sink.

Australia
Brisbane
As mentioned earlier, I pulled the 4th Inf Div out of here and sent it to Townsville.  It loads and heads for the Philippines.  Might unload it anywhere but that is its destination.

Hobart
I had pulled the Betty Daitai out of Devonport a while ago and decide to evacuate the Baseforce there.  I sorties a group of AP from Perth and order the BF to Hobart for pick-up.

Transfers
A number of units get marching orders to head for Perth, Darwin, or Townsville for Redeployment.  About 10 units get the order to move and they mostly comprise HQs, Con Btn, and Aviation units.

ASW
It is time to get the ASW TF up-and-running.  We have 2 east of Luzon and I create 3 more to move into the same area. 



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