RE: December 11-12, 1943: Game, Set, Match (Full Version)

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ny59giants -> RE: December 11-12, 1943: Game, Set, Match (7/14/2008 11:35:12 PM)

You both need to slow down to only one or two turns per day and allow time for you to get over the emotional roller coaster you have been on since his ships left Iwo Jima for this adventure.

OK, I'll take off my counselor hat now. [:D]



John 3rd -> RE: December 11-12, 1943: Game, Set, Match (7/15/2008 12:37:45 AM)

I have fought myself to a standstill.  The LBA is in tatters (fighters OK but bombers have terrible morale), CBA has been wiped out, and my Fleet is a mess.  I've hit him over and over and over sinking mass numbers but it does no good.  As soon as he got that Port on the north end of Sakhalin it was over. 

His CVs put in and IMMEDIATELY got hundreds of fighters, dive bombers, and torpedo bombers.  Add 250 4EB in Sapporo, 200 4EB in Tokohara, and planes in Shikuka... (EDIT) Don't forget Iwo Jima with 200 4EB there as well!

I feel like Hudson in Aliens "Game over man---game OVER!"  [:'(][:'(] 

I'll stick it through for a while but the Home Islands are now toast.  I cannot put fighters over every city in Japan right now and the 4EB will simply blow through them anyway!

I think my fighting morale matches the Japanese Air Force.



John 3rd -> RE: December 11-12, 1943: Game, Set, Match (7/15/2008 12:40:37 AM)

Thanks Mike.  I think I need to pay for an hour-long session of counseling to be followed by an hour-long massage and perhaps I would feel better.




John 3rd -> RE: December 11-12, 1943: Game, Set, Match (7/15/2008 3:20:26 AM)

An Armistice Offer has been made by the Allies towards the Empire of Japan.  The Emporer is giving his due consideration...

If allowed by the Allies, this offer will be posted next onto the AAR.



John 3rd -> From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 3:28:18 AM)

This is what I got from my Friend Dan Roper:



John,

I don't know about you, but I am exhausted. I was totally useless today at work. I went for a long run up Lavender Mountain this evening to sort through things and here's what I come up with:

I offer you an armistace on the following terms:

1. We declare an armistice and stalement, with neither side winning or losing. It's a tie!
2. What I get out of it is the satisfaction that I didn't lose despite the horrible hole you put me into at the beginning of the game.
3. What you get out of it is the satisfaction of not enduring the massive Allied build-up and onslaught and the decline of your hard-earned Empire.
4. The Allies agree to end the oil embargo.
5. The Japanese agree to withdraw from China, but may keep their pre-war territory in Manchuko and Korea.
6. Other than that, both sides revert to pre-war territory.
7. We then invade Russia; the Japanese get to keep all Russian oil, natural gas, and coal. The Allies get all precious metals and Russian babes.
8. Neither of us ever has regrets over ending the game.
9. Neither of us ever claims or implies that we wish we hadn't quit the game because we probably would have won. We both agree that we had plans, resources, and problems unique to both sides and that unforeseen events could have destroyed the best laid plans and derailed the most unstoppable momentum. IE, we mutually agree that the outcome of the game was uncertain and that ending the game now was in our mutual best interests so that we can resume a normal life.
10. I get to start my sabbatical from gaming to see if I can reclaim a sane lifestyle.
11. You get to turn your focus to other things or to a fresh new game in which you can make sure the Japs run amock as only you can do.
12. To prevent second thoughts and second-guessing, we immediately exchange passwords. That will eliminate any temptation to renew the game (God forbid!). Or, we can both send our passwords to NYGiants and he distributes them when he has them both.
13. As soon as we both say, "I do" we may read each other's AAR. That ought to take some time and open some eyes.
14. If you do not wish to enter into an armistice, I solemly pledge to continue devoting the same time and energy to the game until the mutually agreed upon end or imposed ending. IE, I won't drag my feet.

What say you, kind, noble, and most capable opponent?

Dan "Canoerebel" Roper



John 3rd -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 3:39:07 AM)

This was my response to Dan's Offer and Email.  It alludes to all sorts of things that my noble opponents have been fully clued into over the last 10 months of my life:

Master Dan: I just got done laughing from your email.  IT is well thought out and made me smile thoroughly!  Let me think about it some before making a commitment.   Have to admit--once I got to thinking about what you were feeling regarding time with the game and living life--that your thought has a certain appeal to me as well.  I am HYPED to play AE when it comes out; however, that won't be for at least a few months.  I could keep my slow games going with NY GIANTS and Mandrake while buying the Battleground Series and have some VERY relaxing Civil War fun that doesn't require strategic planning, sleepless nights, and 4 hour long turns!   Additionally, the whole reason why our game started (ie the Arrest and Trial Prep) is now winding down and in the home stretch.  I will need to find a job that can pay the bills as well as re-establish some form of life.  This will all take time to accomplish. Let me contemplate.  Would you mind if I posted your Armistice on the AAR? Warmly,John Good Readers, I have had time to play this campaign due to a former HS student's preposterous allegation against me in March of 2007 leading to my arrest in September of last year.  NY Giants, Paul Layne, Mandrake and Tabpub, Moses, Lee Hunt, Castor, and several others have kept up with the events as they have occurred.  We are approaching the time to either commit to a 4 day trial in early-September or go with a Plea Bargain (revealing how weak their case is) that has little-to-no impact upon my life or family.   Throughout this trying (pardon the pun) time, WITP has kept me on the saner side of life.  There have been some mighty dark days and my participation on this Forum and within this game has enabled me to keep going.  If you read portions of the AAR with this knowledge there are comments spread throughout it that will now make sense. Please keep in mind that I do not need to share this but I feel I need to pay tribute to all of you and the role this game has had in keeping me living while going through a dark journey... Thank You.John 



Mistmatz -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 3:39:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

This is what I got from my Friend Dan Roper:



John,

I don't know about you, but I am exhausted. I was totally useless today at work. I went for a long run up Lavender Mountain this evening to sort through things and here's what I come up with:

I offer you an armistace on the following terms:

1. We declare an armistice and stalement, with neither side winning or losing. It's a tie!
2. What I get out of it is the satisfaction that I didn't lose despite the horrible hole you put me into at the beginning of the game.
3. What you get out of it is the satisfaction of not enduring the massive Allied build-up and onslaught and the decline of your hard-earned Empire.
4. The Allies agree to end the oil embargo.
5. The Japanese agree to withdraw from China, but may keep their pre-war territory in Manchuko and Korea.
6. Other than that, both sides revert to pre-war territory.
7. We then invade Russia; the Japanese get to keep all Russian oil, natural gas, and coal. The Allies get all precious metals and Russian babes.
8. Neither of us ever has regrets over ending the game.
9. Neither of us ever claims or implies that we wish we hadn't quit the game because we probably would have won. We both agree that we had plans, resources, and problems unique to both sides and that unforeseen events could have destroyed the best laid plans and derailed the most unstoppable momentum. IE, we mutually agree that the outcome of the game was uncertain and that ending the game now was in our mutual best interests so that we can resume a normal life.
10. I get to start my sabbatical from gaming to see if I can reclaim a sane lifestyle.
11. You get to turn your focus to other things or to a fresh new game in which you can make sure the Japs run amock as only you can do.
12. To prevent second thoughts and second-guessing, we immediately exchange passwords. That will eliminate any temptation to renew the game (God forbid!). Or, we can both send our passwords to NYGiants and he distributes them when he has them both.
13. As soon as we both say, "I do" we may read each other's AAR. That ought to take some time and open some eyes.
14. If you do not wish to enter into an armistice, I solemly pledge to continue devoting the same time and energy to the game until the mutually agreed upon end or imposed ending. IE, I won't drag my feet.

What say you, kind, noble, and most capable opponent?

Dan "Canoerebel" Roper




It should be quite obvious that I and probably all the other readers of your and Canoerebels AAR would not be happy if you decided to call the game a draw. On the other hand I understand very well how much time this game can consume, how demanding it can be and how it can affect real life.

Either way, the two of you provided a hell of a show and I'd like to thank you both for hours of great entertainment. Thank you John and Dan. [:)]





John 3rd -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 2:48:54 PM)

I am mulling over dan's proposal but have thought that a more comprehensive review of what happened with his invasion might be a good thing for readers.  In particular those who woould play Japan might benefit from it so I plan to do that when I get some free time this afternoon. 

Perhaps some reflective commentary as to tactics and strategy would be useful too...



ny59giants -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 4:23:35 PM)

Sir John,
I hope you decide to continue on. It seems to me that you have landed at Normandy (or Dan has) and it is dawn on 7 June and the battle has yet to be decided one way or another. Both of you have concerns to address in the coming days of battle. I would suggest that you restrict yourself to only one turn per day for the foreseeable future. You two have cranked out turns at a rate higher than any other game I've followed (you stated that some days it was 3 or 4).

The question is can you bring in enough forces to throw him out??
Can Dan keep those bases supplied and then build them up??
Right now, no one knows and I'm like others viewing this AAR (and his). We want some sort of answer.  [:D]



n01487477 -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 4:41:09 PM)

John,
I concur with Michael & similarly I don't believe Japan would or should in this case capitulate straight away ... for the sake of satisfaction give it a week or two to play out the final struggle. Then, if things are as bad as they really seem, accept the armistice. The Japanese people would need that certainty drilled into them before they could 'accept' the facts as they stand right now. You know your history well, at least make it an acceptable and semi-historic end.. (Although, from what I really think, the Japanese probably would have fought on longer had the Allies invaded the Home Is)

Hell, they still teach history in Japanese schools in a circuitous manner... but that is another Forum thread...

I realise the roller coaster both you guys have been on ... in the end it is your decision...just my 2cents.

Regards
---Damian---



John 3rd -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 7:51:13 PM)

Thanks guys.  I am still thinking about it and chilling out a bit.  What do other regular readers think?

I have given thought to us playing this until January 1, 1944.  By that time things should appear pretty certain as to regarding the reality of the assault.

Hmmm....



FeurerKrieg -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 8:06:27 PM)

I'd keep at it, but I like being in 'hopeless' situations.

Look - he has a long supply line, several of the bases he captured are cold weather bases. Hokkaido is by no means secure for him, and conducting an offensive out of Sakhalin may not be as easy as it seems. Let him flatten the stuff that is in range of P-38's, and if you have the supplies, expand your factories on the southern part of Japan that only unescorted bombers can hit. Then focus all your AA and fighters in those areas.

In the meantime, you still have some carriers, put them in small groups and never let his SLOC be secure. Make him send multiple carriers of his own with EVERY convoy - or he pays the price.

Japan always loses. The fun is how much damage can you cause before the end of the war?

All that being said - if you aren't having fun, then by all means don't keep playing. I have yet to get to the late war, but it really is what I look forward to, if only because the extremely rare minor victory will be all the more sweeter in the face of the overwhelming allied juggernaut.



John 3rd -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 8:09:14 PM)

Nice thoughts...



bobogoboom -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 8:16:33 PM)

I would keep playing as long as you had the time. but i agree the war is over now. unless you somehow can mount a counter invasion i just don't see there being any chance.

and thanks for a great aar between our game and your aar. those are the basis of my japanese stratagy(i would be in even worse shape as japan if not for them.)



FeurerKrieg -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 8:23:51 PM)

Another option, if Dan is open to it - if you don't want to continue, poll the forum to see if anyone wants to take over the game.



cantona2 -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 9:02:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

This was my response to Dan's Offer and Email.  It alludes to all sorts of things that my noble opponents have been fully clued into over the last 10 months of my life:

Master Dan: I just got done laughing from your email.  IT is well thought out and made me smile thoroughly!  Let me think about it some before making a commitment.   Have to admit--once I got to thinking about what you were feeling regarding time with the game and living life--that your thought has a certain appeal to me as well.  I am HYPED to play AE when it comes out; however, that won't be for at least a few months.  I could keep my slow games going with NY GIANTS and Mandrake while buying the Battleground Series and have some VERY relaxing Civil War fun that doesn't require strategic planning, sleepless nights, and 4 hour long turns!   Additionally, the whole reason why our game started (ie the Arrest and Trial Prep) is now winding down and in the home stretch.  I will need to find a job that can pay the bills as well as re-establish some form of life.  This will all take time to accomplish. Let me contemplate.  Would you mind if I posted your Armistice on the AAR? Warmly,John Good Readers, I have had time to play this campaign due to a former HS student's preposterous allegation against me in March of 2007 leading to my arrest in September of last year.  NY Giants, Paul Layne, Mandrake and Tabpub, Moses, Lee Hunt, Castor, and several others have kept up with the events as they have occurred.  We are approaching the time to either commit to a 4 day trial in early-September or go with a Plea Bargain (revealing how weak their case is) that has little-to-no impact upon my life or family.   Throughout this trying (pardon the pun) time, WITP has kept me on the saner side of life.  There have been some mighty dark days and my participation on this Forum and within this game has enabled me to keep going.  If you read portions of the AAR with this knowledge there are comments spread throughout it that will now make sense. Please keep in mind that I do not need to share this but I feel I need to pay tribute to all of you and the role this game has had in keeping me living while going through a dark journey... Thank You.John 


All the best in your hearing mate



John 3rd -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 9:19:56 PM)

Cantona,

Thank you very much for the thoughts.  I really debated even mentioning the situation but felt compelled due to everything Dan and I have been experiencing.  He used to be/is an attorney ans he has given me wise advice over the last year.  There isn't much about my case he does not know!  His consel has been informed and quite useful to my wife and I.

I think I will propose to Dan that we play through the rest od December and make a command decision at that point in time.  Bobo is dead right as to the situation...



bobogoboom -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/15/2008 11:54:38 PM)

wow i am right for once[&:] that never happens



USSAmerica -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/16/2008 4:49:08 PM)

Everyone gets lucky, once in a while.  [:'(]



John 3rd -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/16/2008 5:25:19 PM)

I am still debating on things. 

My wife and I are contemplating life and are looking at making a few command decisions.  With the legal situation heading into the Endgame, we are looking at me having to find a new job/career, figure out the impact of this on our lives, and work on our marriage some.  There is nothing terrible here but the strain on us has been horrific for the last 15 months.  I think a trip Las Vegas is FIRST priority so we can get out of town for a coule of days.  It would be a symbolic ending of one phase of life and starting a new one.

I have a HUGE desire to play AE but have to figure out where things are in life before I make a playing decision that requires so much time.  I love the game and Forum but have to look to my wife and family first.  I'm sure everyone understands...
 



Nemo121 -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/16/2008 5:39:31 PM)

Real life comes first, ALWAYS...

I haven't commented since I don't want to swing your decision one way or the other but I would say that IF you decide to give it a break to put your family first then you have the very best reason possible for such a break.



VSWG -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/17/2008 11:56:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Thanks guys.  I am still thinking about it and chilling out a bit.  What do other regular readers think?

I have given thought to us playing this until January 1, 1944.  By that time things should appear pretty certain as to regarding the reality of the assault.

Hmmm....

Sounds good to me. If you end this game now you will never stop wondering how this would have played out. Besides, how many PBEMs advance to such a late stage of the war? Such a PBEM is a something precious, and should IMO only be dropped after careful consideration.

Of course, if for one of you this PBEM has become a real-life problem them by all means stop playing, but to me it sounds that you two just need some time to relax before continuing this game at a slower pace.

Keep in mind I'm biased though, I don't want to see these beautiful AARs to end - especially so close before entering the AAR Hall of Fame! (hint, hint) [;)]

Edit: Should have read further before posting... Of course real-life comes first! Good luck with your hearing, and take all the time you need to make your decision.



USSAmerica -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/18/2008 12:05:57 AM)

Play the game for as long as you and Dan are having fun!  It's a game!  It needs to be fun.  [8D]



John 3rd -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (7/18/2008 3:01:51 PM)

Appreciate the thoughts also guys.  USS American thanks for the PM!

I've got my Mom and Sister in until Sunday.  I've told Dan that I will think about things and make a decision then. 



John 3rd -> Playing? (7/24/2008 1:45:52 AM)

Readers:

I just sent this email to Dan.

Dan, Have you enjoyed your break from the game?  :>  Have to admit that it has been relaxing but I am suffering some withdrawal. I've thought about things a lot and I think we should finish out the month of December 1943.  It would be fairer to our readers if we got to the turn of the year and had a clearer picture as to the situation.  What do you think about that?  We could dial the turns back to a slower pace and be good. Reactions? John I think it would be good to reach January 1, 1944.  What do you guys think of that? 



bobogoboom -> RE: Playing? (7/24/2008 2:08:36 AM)

yeah it's always good to see the witp calender turn over. it gives you that sense of accomplishment.[:D]



eloso -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (8/1/2008 1:34:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I have given thought to us playing this until January 1, 1944.  By that time things should appear pretty certain as to regarding the reality of the assault.

Hmmm....



After all the abuse you put your opponent through don't you think you owe it to him to continue until the end? [;)]

Even though he caught you off guard he is being sloppy and careless. Make him pay for it.



John 3rd -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (8/1/2008 9:03:06 PM)

I AM doing that!  Dan and I have dialed it back to a turn every other day and average sinking 6-10 ships a day.  My Fleet has been wrecked but I am sowing carnage wherever I go.

My Court concerns are at fever pitch right now as we make the decision of whether or not to take Plea Bargain or go to Trial.  Decision must be made by next Friday.  Once that decision is made then I should be able to do some updating. 

Dan wrote and explained how he was going to retreat after I crushed his offensive airpower.  He actually gave the orders and then decided to sleep.  When he woke up, he changed his mind and here we are!  Funny about how decisions can be made at one point then a little while later they don't matter and you change?  What is in that thought that applies to life?



heenanc -> RE: From the President of the United States to the Emporer of Japan (8/3/2008 12:49:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OSO


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I have given thought to us playing this until January 1, 1944.  By that time things should appear pretty certain as to regarding the reality of the assault.

Hmmm....



After all the abuse you put your opponent through don't you think you owe it to him to continue until the end? [;)]

Even though he caught you off guard he is being sloppy and careless. Make him pay for it.



I agreed, there should be no running from this game. John has had the good time's for 2 to 3 years, now it's pay back time!!



John 3rd -> Payback Time? (8/3/2008 1:55:44 AM)

Just completed the Dec 19th turn and another 13 Allied ships sank.  I cannot describe the number of ships I have sunk since the invasion started.  Currently I have 3 CV TF at sea ranging from south of Dutch Harbor to 10 hexes NW of Midway sinking Allied vessels. 

Where is the US Fleet?  Up in Northern Sakhalin Island is where! 

The Japanese now have 5 1/2 Inf Div at Hakodate and 2 more about to land.  The Japanese continue to hold Wakkanai and have made Sapporo untenable to Allied air.  It MIGHT be captured by air assault on the next turn.

Quite possibly, the Americans may lose 5 Inf Div and numerous support units if I can keep up the pressure.  IF Northern Hokkaido is recaptured and the Americans continue losing numerous ships, it is quite within the realm of possibility for a counterlanding on Sakhalin to the occur...

I will post a screenshot in a few minutes...



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