Cossack Maintenance cost (Full Version)

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trw2264 -> Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 3:05:57 AM)

Is it the intention of the game design to include cossacks (I will assume Freikorps, etc, as well, even thought I just tested cossacks) in the costs for the quarterly maintenance charges?

I got the impression that cossacks are different from corps and in my opinion the original EiA game rules made a strong distinction between cossacks and corps.

I noticed that the PC game charged Russia $3 for cossack maintenance. I did not know if I had made a mistake or not so I ran a test and saw that cossacks are required to pay maintenance.

Thanks,
Thomas



Murat -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 3:16:55 AM)

Cossacks cost maintainance in EiA too unless you stood them down and then brought them up. The problem is they return to their home area so you are paying $1 basically to keep them on the move [:)]



trw2264 -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 3:20:24 AM)

Hmmm, are you just saying that because you are France and I am Russia in the same game? [;)]

Seriously though, that means that my group has played the board game incorrect for all these years. The original EiA rules makes a distinction between these irregular types and corps and maintenance costs are specifically allocated to corps only in the rules.



Murat -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 3:36:04 AM)

Well:
quote:

8.5.1.1 CORPS MAINTENANCE: For each corps of any type and at any location a major power has on the map (not including minor free state corps, which are paid for separately) it expends one money point in maintenance.
10.1.2 COSSACKS AND FREIKORPS: Each cossack or freikorps counter represents one army factor.


I guess you could argue that a cossack is not a 'corp of any type' but other irregular types certainly are (like Austrian Insurrection and Turkish Feudal). We always played that they had to maintained.



Titi -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 3:38:04 AM)

You played perfectly right the board game : Cossack have no cost to create or maintain. Only feudals have a cost to maintain, but they're corps.



Monadman -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 5:24:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: trw2264

I noticed that the PC game charged Russia $3 for cossack maintenance. I did not know if I had made a mistake or not so I ran a test and saw that cossacks are required to pay maintenance.



That would be a bug Thomas – thanks.

Richard



Soapy Frog -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 5:49:15 AM)

This is not the case as others have pointed out ;)



Murat -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 6:09:27 AM)

I searched throughout the EiA, EiH and erratta and could find nothing saying that cossacks cost nothing to maintain. If anyone has that rule could you please post it so I can pass it on? Thanks!
Sooooo saying that it was played 'perfectly correct' or that cost is 'not the case' is not accurate. It is a matter of interpretation until you find something saying otherwise in those EiA/EiH rules.

As far as EIANW goes, the manual also is unclear about this issue (see 12.5.1 and 13.2.2), even though Richard was clear[:)].




Titi -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 6:39:31 AM)

Murat, funny that i need to show why cossacks don't pay maintenance when you don't show me where you find they need [:(]

From EiA rules :

8.5.1 MAINTENANCE : These represent the expense of counters already on the map. If there is insufficient money for the maintenance of all counters in 8.5.1, the major power pays all available money and becomes bankrupt. This has no effect on the counters on the map.
8.5.1.1 CORPS MAINTENANCE : For each corps of any type and at any location a major power has on the map (not including minor free state corps, which are paid of separately) it expends one money point in maintenane.
8.5.1.2 FLEET MAINTENANCE : [...]
8.5.1.3 DEPOT MAINTENANCE : [...]

16.0 Glossary :
Corps : Large land unit counter

The read is that only counters that pay maintenance are corps, fleet and depot. Other small counters like cossacks, freikcorps, garrison factors, leaders, guerilla don't cost anything to maintain.

Sorry, don't think there is any place for interpretation or misreading here.



zaquex -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 7:23:28 AM)

I agree with the interpretation that cossacks friecorps and guerillas need no maintenance and thats how our player group always played it. Its not however 100% clear from the manual if these troops are concidered corps or not. Our interpretation that these units are not concidered corps is based on that no political points are awarded or lost by them and that these units are always mentioned as seperate entitys wherever applicable even when they function exactly as corps like for example in reinforcement.

quote:

16.0 Glossary :
Corps : Large land unit counter
<< dont think i ever saw that, it is pretty clear and dont leave much room for interpretation. ;-) Thanks :-)
 



DodgyDave -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 12:49:58 PM)

well it seems rather simple, 10.1.2 refer to these cossacks and freikorps, not as corps but as single factor counters and no where in their description does it refer to maintenance cost, while feudal and Insurrection corps does, also consider this, spain using Guerilla would also then suddenly cost 1 per counter if that was true, it would break them, if they where invaded and it would cost them alot of money due to this :)



baboune -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 1:51:09 PM)

Yes, exactly. CK are like garrison. And require no maintenance costs.



Ted1066 -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 5:29:49 PM)

The other litmus test for whether a cossacks/freikorps/guerilla is a corps or not is whether they influence PP from the outcome of a battle - which they do not. Pretty good indicator that these units are factors, not corps, and thus shouldn't incur a maintenance charge in the eco phase.



baboune -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 6:20:30 PM)

Well if they are corps they also have to count agains the leader corps rating limit :)

Imagine Alexander with 3 Cossacks and only 1 Inf corps!



Soapy Frog -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 6:37:01 PM)

Cossacks are not corps, as per the definitions at the end of the rulebook. They are not referred to as corps anywhere.



trw2264 -> RE: Cossack Maintenance cost (1/10/2008 7:05:25 PM)

Thanks Monadman, now there will be more funds for Vodka!



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