RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (Full Version)

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Grimrod42 -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/18/2008 4:44:11 PM)

All I know is that the Russian army was better and quite balanced in the original game.

And this is suppose to be Empires in Arms

plus it should be a really easy fix



Grimrod42 -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/18/2008 8:04:24 PM)

Another really good question is where did the Infantry go!!!
The cavalry is still at 27 in both Oob just wrongly distributed.

But Russia is missing 4 Infantry from the original total
considering that most other forces got stronger (ie infantry allowed in the Austrian Guard corps - for some unknown reason)
So Where is it???



Thresh -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/18/2008 9:53:50 PM)

Thats because, from a historical point of view, the Austrians did not have a Guard Corps originally. What they had were Guard/Grenadier Companies in each battalion, and on occasion, these companies were gathered into ad hoc battalions.

Todd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grimrod42

Another really good question is where did the Infantry go!!!
The cavalry is still at 27 in both Oob just wrongly distributed.

But Russia is missing 4 Infantry from the original total
considering that most other forces got stronger (ie infantry allowed in the Austrian Guard corps - for some unknown reason)
So Where is it???





AresMars -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/18/2008 11:18:47 PM)

I never really thought that EIA was too historical when it came to the various OOBs...

EiH worked on that a little....I understood why.....but I was use to the originals.

EIANW OOBs frustrate me (I am old skool EIA) but the game can still be played as is....



PBI -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/19/2008 5:12:20 AM)

Also, and I don't know if this might explain some apparent strength losses, in the computer game, each strength point is 2,000 men, not 1,000.



Soapy Frog -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/19/2008 6:45:29 PM)

PBI, in EiA, 1 factor is 2000 men or 1000 cavalry, that is however an approximation.

Thresh, regarding historical accuracy, the EiA OOB and corps system is meant to simulate and approximate the armies of the day; the orginal OOB was fine for that. If you wanted to go with historical accuracy, the corps would have to be proken down into brigade/division formations, as corps are actually administrative in nature and not properly maneuver units (nevermind that the corps concept was not used by many countries of the period).



Grimrod42 -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/19/2008 7:16:06 PM)

The main Russian stack (a well blanced one) has gone from 92 factors to just 80.
The can make a significant difference.



Thresh -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/19/2008 7:17:52 PM)

The Original EiA OOB was in many respects a failure. The Prussian Army was not organized as it was in the EiA OOB until around 1812. Likewise, many of the French corps were smaller, and only increased in size to the EiA OOB in 1812. Spanish Corps did not have large numbers of integral cavalry. The Austrian OOB is pretty close, as is the Russian. The Turkish one is always up for debate as composistion of the Janissary and Feudal Corps is debatable.

The Original EiA OOB is great...if your playing anything after 1812.

Thresh



quote:

ORIGINAL: Soapy Frog

PBI, in EiA, 1 factor is 2000 men or 1000 cavalry, that is however an approximation.

Thresh, regarding historical accuracy, the EiA OOB and corps system is meant to simulate and approximate the armies of the day; the orginal OOB was fine for that. If you wanted to go with historical accuracy, the corps would have to be proken down into brigade/division formations, as corps are actually administrative in nature and not properly maneuver units (nevermind that the corps concept was not used by many countries of the period).




Grimrod42 -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/19/2008 7:44:27 PM)

so what
the original Oob was playable and was balanced.

I have played many EiA games and never had an issue with the OoB.

its a game not history



Thresh -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/19/2008 7:55:25 PM)

The I would expect to see no more posts about missing factors, Corps, or leaders, or cities with wrong fortress fleches, locations, mispellings, etc etc etc.

After all, its just a game. Why try and be accurate?

Thresh



Soapy Frog -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/19/2008 11:55:52 PM)

Thresh, you miss the point, we want to play EiA. If you bought Monopoly and discovered that on that particular printing, Boardwalk was half price and all the Chance cards gave $200 regardless, would you feel like you were playing Monopoly?

The complaints about OOB are not that they are/aren't historical, it's that they aren't EiA. If you want to mod the game to your tastes, that's cool, but let's start with the boardgame as a baseline.

Regarding Prussian corps arrangement; sometimes (a LOT of the time!) gameplay and practicality take a backseat to realism. Again, "corps" are very nebulous organizations, just as you might complain that the Prussian OOB is not correct pre-1812, equally there is no practical reason why the French XII corps must be limited in size compared to the French I corps... and so on...



sw30 -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/20/2008 3:43:04 AM)

I would hope that the "fix" is not to implement the EiA OOB, but to implement EiHv5.  I hated the EiA OOB, even when I was playing it.  Never mind historicalness, it was junk balance-wise.



moopere -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/20/2008 3:43:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Soapy Frog

The complaints about OOB are not that they are/aren't historical, it's that they aren't EiA. If you want to mod the game to your tastes, that's cool, but let's start with the boardgame as a baseline.


This seems like a reasonable proposition, however, are we going to get a scenario editor? I believe so, and if we do then I'm guessing that such stuff will be able to be changed by players and groups of players to more closely resemble either the boardgame or their own interpretation of history.

Regards,
Moopere





Thresh -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/20/2008 7:02:18 AM)

Either its a historical game, or its a game based on history.

Right now, its the latter.. which for some people is fine.

Thresh


quote:

ORIGINAL: Soapy Frog

Thresh, you miss the point, we want to play EiA. If you bought Monopoly and discovered that on that particular printing, Boardwalk was half price and all the Chance cards gave $200 regardless, would you feel like you were playing Monopoly?

The complaints about OOB are not that they are/aren't historical, it's that they aren't EiA. If you want to mod the game to your tastes, that's cool, but let's start with the boardgame as a baseline.

Regarding Prussian corps arrangement; sometimes (a LOT of the time!) gameplay and practicality take a backseat to realism. Again, "corps" are very nebulous organizations, just as you might complain that the Prussian OOB is not correct pre-1812, equally there is no practical reason why the French XII corps must be limited in size compared to the French I corps... and so on...




bresh -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/20/2008 12:04:22 PM)

So dont forget in your editor change back all :
Prussia Gd-corps,
Austrian Gd-corps, 
Tyrkish Jan-corps.
Russian cav-corps.

Else you wont really have EIA.

Regards
Bresh 



pzgndr -> RE: Where did the Cavalry Go!!!? (2/20/2008 2:44:37 PM)

quote:

I would hope that the "fix" is not to implement the EiA OOB, but to implement EiHv5.


This does not have to be an either/or debate. With an editor, we can have both and more.

Question for Marshall and Richard would be, why not simply provide both OOBs (EiA original defaults and EiH v4/v5 mods) for all scenarios when you get around to working on them for the update?? Just make them part of the standard patch release.



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