1.01 Patch release notes preview! (Full Version)

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Marshall Ellis -> 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/10/2008 11:45:37 PM)

Hey guys:

Here is a preview of my 1.01 patch release notes. This is not final but could give you some data to refer to when you see a bug. Maybe this will save you guys some time!





AresMars -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/10/2008 11:47:00 PM)

Thank you Marshall!




zaquex -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 12:13:58 AM)

Thanks

one comment:

quote:

* Program allowing MP1 to surrender to MP2 and MP2 to surrender to MP1 in the same month!
* Changed so that the higher PS MP will get the surrender


wouldnt the reasonable outcome of this be a white peace?



Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 12:36:50 AM)

If you mean "truce" or informal peace then I could agree. I'm open to changing this (Just not in 1.01 :-))




delatbabel -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 12:37:50 AM)

I note that there aren't actually that many AI enhancements / fixes mentioned in the release notes, which is surprising considering that the AI is probably the #1 thing that's getting commented on in the forum.

I find it relatively easy, as Prussia playing solo, to batter the French army to bits. This shouldn't be possible without extensive allied help. For example, Napoleon with a single corps (often the artillery or the guards, often with only 5 or 6 factors) is quite often sent forth on a suicide mission -- when I see that I'm onto it like a seagull onto a sick prawn (as we say here in .au) with the biggest stack I can muster, pick escalated assault, and the usual result is the little corporals capture. No sane human player would do this.

So the main AI repairs I'd like to see are:

* AI not declaring war quite so often -- usually 6 AI players will all end up at war with each other.
* AI not using single corps with important leaders. Generally speaking, AI sticking its corps together in larger stacks.
* AI France should use a large stack to bludgeon its way to Berlin or Vienna in any war against Prussia or Austria, to force that surrender, rather than a single corps as so often happens.
* AI sets up somewhat more forwards -- AI France usually doesn't set up with troops in the minor countries in Germany that it controls.
* AI goes on the attack with larger stacks more often. Currently the AI seems to sit back and wait for you to attack it. This is especially the case with AI Turkey or Russia, which seem to just sit around and play dead, even if you have invaded their home countries.
* AI does not declare war on minor countries then not invade them in the upcoming land phase. As Prussia I usually sit back waiting for France to DoW a few minors that I have put influence on, the war often (usually) lapses, and I get a free minor.



dauphan129 -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 12:40:22 AM)

I think they have already said the AI was going to be overhauled but not in 1.01. 1.01 was aimed mostly at game mechanics.



pzgndr -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 12:56:43 AM)

Yeah, I would expect AI improvements will be a long term ongoing project. For now just bug fixes and important enhancements are needed. Like news headlines - thank you!

quote:

* AI: Need to pay more attention to MPs strategic value when DOWing (Prussia DOWs GBR way too much).


I am curious about this one. Was anything done? Just wondering what to expect.



Grognot -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 2:15:29 AM)

...or the AI's unwillingness to ever break a naval blockade, which makes it near-obligatory to have the naval powers all controlled by human beings.



Grapeshot Bob -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 2:24:45 AM)

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I really appreciate how responsive the developers have been!

Way to go guys.



GSB



dodod -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 2:56:01 AM)

any chance of knowing what will be compatible with current games?

will we be able to make backup files and import them into a new game? (obviously options will likely not be able to be affected)



Monadman -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 4:32:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dodod

any chance of knowing what will be compatible with current games?

will we be able to make backup files and import them into a new game? (obviously options will likely not be able to be affected)


The patch will be compatible with your current games but if you would like to use some of the new features then you will need to start a new game.

Richard



gazfun -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 8:12:56 AM)

Hi Marshall
Any date known on when the patch is available?



Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 3:02:08 PM)

We're cross-testing right now (To make sure I didn't break anything) and should wrap that up this weekend. I would hope we could deliver this to Matrix for packaging on Monday.

Just so you guys know:

We will be working on the AI but this patch was to get critical bugs (game crash, etc.) addressed. I expect to spend more and more time on AI and general enhancements (Scenario editor) as the bugs get fewer and fewer.




baboune -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 3:52:58 PM)

Are there any major plans to improve the UI?



General von Alien -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 4:08:11 PM)

quote:

* Multiple PBEM battles are being allowed to be executed at the same time


Good news! A forward step for the PBEM game.



Erik Rutins -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 4:11:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel
I note that there aren't actually that many AI enhancements / fixes mentioned in the release notes, which is surprising considering that the AI is probably the #1 thing that's getting commented on in the forum.


Just to chime in, we've said since the release that the AI would be the #1 post-release priority _after_ bugs and critical issues are fixed. Marshall is going about this the right way and the AI will absolutely get a good ongoing look after the issues have been addressed.



DCWhitworth -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 4:35:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel
I note that there aren't actually that many AI enhancements / fixes mentioned in the release notes, which is surprising considering that the AI is probably the #1 thing that's getting commented on in the forum.


Just to chime in, we've said since the release that the AI would be the #1 post-release priority _after_ bugs and critical issues are fixed. Marshall is going about this the right way and the AI will absolutely get a good ongoing look after the issues have been addressed.


I completely agree with this approach, which is the only sensible one. Fix errors first, make improvements later. A friend of mine has given up playing the game because it regularly crashes on him.

I'm sure he'll be right back as soon as the patch is out though.



Monadman -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 5:12:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: General von Alien

quote:

* Multiple PBEM battles are being allowed to be executed at the same time


Good news! A forward step for the PBEM game.



Sorry, that’s Marshall reverse order thinking he is now famous for. Unfortunately, he means it was a problem that a workaround (ahem) allowed for multiple battle file exchanges. He shut the window on it, but not until I tortured him with the possibility.

Richard



Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 6:13:48 PM)

I resent those remarks, Richard! I have no order in my thinking! :-)






iamspamus -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 6:30:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis
Just so you guys know:

We will be working on the AI but this patch was to get critical bugs (game crash, etc.) addressed. I expect to spend more and more time on AI and general enhancements (Scenario editor) as the bugs get fewer and fewer.


Great to hear Marshall! Once again not a programmer, but may I suggest that you guys look at the method that WIFFE is using to develop their AI?

Here's a link
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=979605

It's obviously a lot more complicated, but I think that it should work to fix many of the issues. I'll be willing to help you as needed with "generic rules" as well as country specific ones.

Keep up the good work. It's appreciated.

Jason



Monadman -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 6:38:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

I resent those remarks, Richard! I have no order in my thinking! :-)







Richard

[:D]

Sometimes the order is good but reads backwards.

Marshall,



Jimmer -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 7:11:27 PM)

In the "Known Issues" section at the top, it mentions the "Not enough storage ...". I've seen this once when the problem was NOT EiANW's problem. I run Adobe Acrobat Reader 8.0 without any patches. Apparently, Reader 8 has a bug that sometimes allows memory usage to grow without bound.

Now, when playing EiA, sometimes I keep the manual open. What I found was that the Acrobat session with the manual in it was gradually growing in memory usage, until it ran me out of both real memory and virtual.

So, if anybody sees that message, check your Task Manager Processes tab, and look for a humungous memory pile in use by Acrobat before you decide to restart EiA or your computer.

If the problem with Acrobat is present, killing that window solves it in about 30 seconds (when the system finally clears out all of the virtual memory that is no longer in use).



Jimmer -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 7:33:58 PM)

From the "Fixed issues" document:

     "* Changed so that the higher PS MP will get the surrender"

In the boardgame, if two MPs sued for peace at the same time, then both would get an automatic informal peace, with no political point loss to either side.



WJPalmer1 -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/11/2008 11:49:50 PM)

I had similar memory problems in other games when I tried to keep large PDF manuals open in Adobe while playing the game. To fix it, I downloaded, installed and now always use the free Foxit Reader. It's much more memory-friendly and has superior presentation of the manual IMO.

http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php



argaur -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/14/2008 6:46:53 PM)

i have 2 games waiting, some release day please?



Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/14/2008 8:15:11 PM)

Hey guys:

I did change the sue for peace issue (Each MP sues the other for peace) to be an automatic informal peace for the 1.01 patch.

BTW: I am doing a final build and will submit the patch for the building of the installation package this evening. We'll probably use tomorrow to test the install build then hopefully release on Wednesday (Given that nothing burps on us). Sorry for this delay but we have almost 90 fixes / enhacements incorporated so we need to make sure that all fixes play well together.





Jimmer -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/14/2008 9:36:35 PM)

No problem.

Should make 1.02 a piece of cake, right? :)



Marshall Ellis -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/14/2008 11:46:08 PM)

Jimmer:

Yea, right .. Piece of cake [X(] LOL!



zaquex -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/15/2008 3:06:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: iamspamus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis
Just so you guys know:

We will be working on the AI but this patch was to get critical bugs (game crash, etc.) addressed. I expect to spend more and more time on AI and general enhancements (Scenario editor) as the bugs get fewer and fewer.


Great to hear Marshall! Once again not a programmer, but may I suggest that you guys look at the method that WIFFE is using to develop their AI?

Here's a link
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=979605

It's obviously a lot more complicated, but I think that it should work to fix many of the issues. I'll be willing to help you as needed with "generic rules" as well as country specific ones.

Keep up the good work. It's appreciated.

Jason



This is a variant on how I think you can make the AI reasonable in EiA - the use of doctrines/agendas/strategies to restrict the AI's choices and streamline them in a direction that is consistent and reasonable, is in my oppinion the only way to create a competative AI with the resources at available.

Clearly the system presented for WIFFE deals with completly different goals and mechanisms than what a similar system for EiA would. One of the areas where WWII much differ from this and other earlier conflicts is that politics and alliances are very static and a similar system for EiA would need to put much more emphasis on this on the other hand the resource and economy functions are very simple etc .

Clearly there is a lot of work needed to develop such system for EiA but if the goal is to make EiA a strong or even reasonable game for computer controlled opponents there isnt much room for shortcuts and the investment would be well worth it.

If the system also allows a simple way to add agendas and strategies either by the devs or by player moding, the game will also be easily adapted to cover other conflicts.

To be reasonable the AI will have to have several agendas and strategies to choose from, and this will be another big task, but once the community know the format for these im sure the community have people who would be very helpfull or even eager to supply these for the different powers.

I would be very interested in such a system for EiANW and if it would help I'm very willing to provide input or in any other way I can support such development.







iamspamus -> RE: 1.01 Patch release notes preview! (1/16/2008 4:15:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zaquex

This is a variant on how I think you can make the AI reasonable in EiA - the use of doctrines/agendas/strategies to restrict the AI's choices and streamline them in a direction that is consistent and reasonable, is in my oppinion the only way to create a competative AI with the resources at available.

Clearly the system presented for WIFFE deals with completly different goals and mechanisms than what a similar system for EiA would. One of the areas where WWII much differ from this and other earlier conflicts is that politics and alliances are very static and a similar system for EiA would need to put much more emphasis on this on the other hand the resource and economy functions are very simple etc .

Clearly there is a lot of work needed to develop such system for EiA but if the goal is to make EiA a strong or even reasonable game for computer controlled opponents there isnt much room for shortcuts and the investment would be well worth it.

If the system also allows a simple way to add agendas and strategies either by the devs or by player moding, the game will also be easily adapted to cover other conflicts.

To be reasonable the AI will have to have several agendas and strategies to choose from, and this will be another big task, but once the community know the format for these im sure the community have people who would be very helpfull or even eager to supply these for the different powers.

I would be very interested in such a system for EiANW and if it would help I'm very willing to provide input or in any other way I can support such development.




I know that WIF is much more complicated in some regards (rules and such) and much more simple in others (ie. no diplomacy). I was suggesting utilizing the model of how they went about developing the AI. (Not that anyone knows how it'll turn out...[X(] )

So, for Ottomans go for Ottoman Empire. That's kinda a no brainer. Yet in several games I've seen they've gone after Finland, Tuscany, Hesse. What the heck? I've seen Prussia at war with every major country on the board but me. I have 3 or 4 corps stacked together and my opponent has 6 and he marches one in at a time over several turns, giving me PPs every time. I've seen the ottoman go bankrupt every turn. (HUH?) I've seen Napoleon running around with a single half-filled FR corps. (Actually, almost all of the French leaders do this. Have a stack of 4 FR corps in a space with no leader and Davout, Massena, and Nap running around on one corps...before I captured them.) [:D]

So, the way that the WIF guys appear to be doing their AI is listed out in the above thread. Once again, I'm not a programer and I don't know how hard this is. But it appears to be a series of choices, kind of in order, I think. As someone on another post pointed out. Our EIA community is somewhat small and I want to make it bigger and the game better.

Ciao!
Jason



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