MAGISTRAL FLOP for the AI (Full Version)

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Petiloup -> MAGISTRAL FLOP for the AI (1/13/2008 4:48:19 AM)


Was a great Boardgame to play and must be great against Human players for the PC version as well but what a TOTAL FAILURE it is in terms of playing against the computer that I wonder why they did even bother to create a AI version.

There is no challenge what so ever to loose your time to play against the AI. Have tried Turkey, Austria, Russia, Prussia and now Spain with the results you can see. After taking Vienna I just need to go to Istanbul and conquer the Ottoman Empire. What a joke.

That the AI is never really up to play against Human players I can understand but this defy everything I ever played before.

Frankly it deserves to ask for a refund because this is stealing customers money by selling such crap and try to pass it for a Wargame.

Now for those who can take the time to play against other players by PBEM or so then please go ahead and buy this as it seems a good copy/paste of the boardgame to the PC.

[image]local://upfiles/20890/B49F39AEDBFD4C25AB29E0377F8B1B1B.jpg[/image]



gwheelock -> RE: MAGISTRAL FLOP for the AI (1/13/2008 5:12:58 AM)

Actually; the AI does have a use - to teach the game (in a VERY fundamental way) to newbies.

Let them learn how to position & move corp; build their armies; DOW
& conquor territory; etc.

This means that when they move up  to playing againt other (experienced) humans; they
aren't so lost that they are TOTALLY ineffective & can then concentrate on learning
STRATEGY (usually the hard way) instead of trying to learn game mechanics.



zaquex -> RE: MAGISTRAL FLOP for the AI (1/13/2008 5:52:44 AM)

The AI will be improved, have patience.  



Grapeshot Bob -> RE: MAGISTRAL FLOP for the AI (1/13/2008 8:02:07 AM)

I would like to point out how patient and open minded the developers are about dissent in these forums.

I know some game companies would have deleted any threads/posts in their forums that were not 100% positive.

This isn't the only thread that has raised questions about the AI but the developers have left the other threads alone also. Believe me, I have been the author of some of the criticisms of the AI and I know.

I believe that they care about the game and the fans.

Once they get the bugs ironed out there will be room for sharpening up the AI.



GSB



Petiloup -> RE: MAGISTRAL FLOP for the AI (1/13/2008 2:14:57 PM)


I must agree that even for other games the follow up, add ons, patches and so on are well done and it needs to be a serious company to do this.

My frustration is simply that I'm not part of the newbies, can't play games with human players most of the time and so bought something that would challenge me if I play blind only.

My mistake is not to have wait and read the forums which are there for this purpose.

Now it's always easy to criticize the work of others. Guess just wanting to vent my frustration to see that Spain can storm Vienna in 1808 unchallenged. I even smashed some UK fleets and push British troops back to the Sea in Gibraltar. Then never saw the British back anywhere. Once at war with Austria they could have landed anywhere with minimal forces and move to Madrid with impunity or liberate Portugal but never saw them. Never saw the Turkish Fleet either while my transports were moving unprotected just to see if I would get some reaction but nothing.

Well if any newby is trained by this AI he will still be mauled against any experienced player.

Anyway I'll be patient and wait [:(]



yammahoper -> RE: MAGISTRAL FLOP for the AI (1/13/2008 3:26:14 PM)

The AI is very hit and miss, to be sure, with far more misses than hits.

The game has given me some great moments, but in several campaigns, I have only lost two wars; to GB as the Turk and to Fr and Spain.  The Sp/Fr war was the only war in which the computer attacked with strength and drove for my capital (though it failed to garrison depots aand allowed its supply to be cut, but with one Fr corp holding 20 factors, I was hard pressed).

The Fr Invasion started with Davout with the 1st corp.  Since I had three corps in Italy/Africa, and it was 1805, I was in deep at the start.  The brits landed a cav corp in Portugal which I borrowed (for $7 dollars!) to defend Madrid.  I was holding ok against Davout (and eventually captured him) but two new stacks entered Spain, with two corps and three corps.  One went for portugal, the big one for Madrid.  Two battles later and my army was depleted of infantry and I had no desire to lose portugal and all my starting cav (I had lost four so far), so I surrendered conditionally.  Oddly, the Fr took my transport fleet and a royal marriage.

The brits just sent 40 ships at me, chased off my navies leaving all of Tu good corps stranded in Africa.  After three months that GB fleet wasnt going anywhere and Au had declared war on me (even if it was not moving in at all), so I surrendered so I could bring my army home.

I have had some great battles that have included significant loses.  But the AI doesn't follow up on those wins (like when the Fr stack pounded Au for 60 factors of inf and 7 cav in three battles...one that I won!).  The silly AI just pulled back its big stack and sent first one corp to capture vienna and after that died, two corps, which had given me two eco phases to rebuild with.  A push with that Nappy stack after the wins would have forced me to capitulate, and I was rather excited at the time, marveling that the AI was about to beat a surrender out of me.  Did not happen.

So, I think Matrix has the right idea in these forums.  Listen to the negative comments.  The AI has some strengths, it is the inconsistencies that need to be addressed to give us a killer single player game.  For now, simple persistance and patience, a mainstay amongst experienced EiA'ers, will win almost every time.

yamma



zaquex -> RE: MAGISTRAL FLOP for the AI (1/13/2008 4:09:10 PM)

Just stoped playing a campaign with GB where i found me at war with all but spain and austria after two months.

white peace w russia, stand off in finland
turkey surrendered unconditionally, landed on constantinopel(wellington), long siege.
russia surrendered unconditionally, landed in Åbo (wellinton) advanced and captured St Petersburg, threthened Moscow
france surrendered uncondtionally, landed in Italy advanced North(moore), Then West, Landed in Holland (wellinton captured napoleon)marched south, moore captured paris.
prussia surrendered unconditionally, marched north, was thougher to fightt than france, captured blucher, got wellington out 5 months so had to fight with moore, lost allmost all my inf capturing berlin, the prussian militia army that i routed was then 4 times as big as my army in berlin after the battle (lost 15 factors last battle segment and had approximatly 20 factors left in my army 11 of them cav 2 guards he had 85 allthough 80% was militia). I thought he was going to try to recapture berlin and destroy the little that was left of my army but instead he surrendered.

took me a while to build up an army, russia was fighting activly in finland/st petersburg, to many one corp attacks though. AI never tried to send any reinforcements from the border.

turkey threw all he had on me at constantinopel, once, then he marched with one corp at the time and was repelled until city surrendered.

france defended italy with two corps (one of them the art corp) but never stacked them together, i killed them and he sent two new leaving his fleet vulnerable in western france (scuttled). when i marched in to france he assambled a big stack to meet me with some 6-7 corps but led by bernadotte while napoleon was running around with a single corp and was captured by wellington who landed in holland, more was routed by bernadotte in paris but then he went north and was destroyed by wellington while moore recaptured paris.

prussia was though blucher meet up with a full army did some respectfull fighting but after a few months he suddenly took off from the main army and went south to treathen holland with a single corp!?!? and was captured by my screening rear guards. at berlin prussia had no leaders left but my army was also suffering, wellington was out and the battle for berlin took over half my main army - he would probably have destroyed me and captured moore if he had tried - instead he surrendered.

it took approximatly one year to defeat france and prussia (from the time i entered france) something that i think should be impossible with only gb supported w sweden and one corp from neapel even against the ai.

hope i didnt bore you to much with my short description of a 7 year campaign





[image]local://upfiles/27269/E054D159F4AC4AA3820F6882F7947E25.gif[/image]



pzgndr -> RE: MAGISTRAL FLOP for the AI (1/13/2008 4:53:13 PM)

quote:

My frustration is simply that I'm not part of the newbies, can't play games with human players most of the time and so bought something that would challenge me if I play blind only.


As an experienced EiA player, did you honestly expect the v1.0 AI to be challenging right out of the box?? Heck, the game still has some bugs that need to be resolved, the other scenarios added, an editor added, and a few other features still to be implemented. The AI has been on the back burner and will be addressed with future ongoing improvements.

For the most part, I am impressed with how functional the v1.0 AI actually is. It does in fact function, which is good. It obviously needs its priorities adjusted and other enhancements made. These are going to be addressed. Let's be patient. [:)]

Why continue to make a such a fuss about it? The alternative would have been for Matrix to delay release of EiA for several more months until everything was "just right." As it was the game was knowingly released as incomplete with promises to upgrade with planned patches, because that was exactly what the player community asked for. No point whining about it now.



jardail -> RE: MAGISTRAL FLOP for the AI (1/13/2008 5:26:37 PM)

No AI is ever going to be up to task, but coming in here and slamming people who have done an excellent job putting out a very complicated game isn't the answer.  If you don't like it don't play it, or play by email.  Better yet stop your 5 year old fit and get on board with some suggestions and act like an adult.



yammahoper -> RE: MAGISTRAL FLOP for the AI (1/13/2008 7:28:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherneck_MT

No AI is ever going to be up to task, but coming in here and slamming people who have done an excellent job putting out a very complicated game isn't the answer.  If you don't like it don't play it, or play by email.  Better yet stop your 5 year old fit and get on board with some suggestions and act like an adult.


Spoken like a...well, Leatherneck[;)]

Giving ya 20, sir[&o]

Seriously, continue to play and take good notes, find bugs and then post them here, were Marshalls and team can note them and make the changes that need to be made. The game was released early, but we have an opportunity to help make it better. That is something to appreciate.

yamma



timewalker03 -> RE: MAGISTRAL FLOP for the AI (1/14/2008 11:55:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherneck_MT

No AI is ever going to be up to task, but coming in here and slamming people who have done an excellent job putting out a very complicated game isn't the answer. If you don't like it don't play it, or play by email. Better yet stop your 5 year old fit and get on board with some suggestions and act like an adult.



Leatherneck, think about what you just said. 5 years of development and the AI looks like it was slapped together in a week. I realize that this game was intended for PBEM after about 2 years of development, but not everyone has the time or interest in playing PBEM. This is a computer game which would bring me to believe that the game should have been designed for single player on the computer and not Multi player via email. The other thing I look at is that with one programmer and a few testers, the patches will take a nightmarishly long time to produce and from v1.01 to the version that upgrades the AI could take a year or more at the pace this game is programmed. I am not knocking Marshall here because he is only one person and the only person working on this game. For the solo player this game a major disappointment and for those who purchased it for PBEM reasons are the ones who are happy or as close as possible. Also the game released with an unbelievable amount of bugs which should have been found during play testing and fixed before release. 5 years worth of play testing before release for that matter.

One last thing to look at. In this day and age of high gas prices, ever rising food costs, unbelievable health care costs, and wages not keeping up, it should be important to most people who live on a budget that if they purchase a product for recreation it is the most and best for the money. At 60 dollars people should expect more for what they paid for the game and should be mad if the game does not meet the expectations after a 5 year wait for many. Only time will tell if this game was a good purchase for those who will not use the game for the PBEM features.



Stewart -> RE: MAGISTRAL FLOP for the AI (1/14/2008 2:19:10 PM)

I really want this game but until the AI is fixed, just a little bit, I will wait and buy it later. I have been waiting for this game for a long tim and don't want to waste this much money just so that I can get mad at myself for buying it. I hope the patch fixes some of this but can a beta tell us how the AI improvement is going?

Stewart



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