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ColinWright -> RE: Digging In (1/30/2008 1:38:02 AM)
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ORIGINAL: IronDuke
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ORIGINAL: ColinWright
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ORIGINAL: hank
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ORIGINAL: Heldenkaiser
Actually I believe there is a chance that the turn will end "early" after each round of combats, as they are always followed by a force proficiency check. That check failing, the turn ends--regardless of the length and result of the combats in the round. So that's nothing that could be avoided with proper combat planning or more information. It just happens ... a deliberate element of uncertainty.
At least that's my understanding. :)
That's the way I understand it too, H. I think we started playing this game about the same time and you've sure learned ToaW's intricacies much better than I. I should have known not to question this feature of the game since there's alway a defender to jump up and describe the virtues of "early turn ends". I like your brief description ... It just happens ... and i should just accept it whether I think its realistic or not. ... And I do. I just had too little sleep that night and made some comments I shouldn't have.
Good luck Heldenkaiser
The thing about early turn ending is that while it may be unpleasant, it does provide some of the advantages of 'wego.' Your opponent may not be able to move at the same time as you do, but early turn ending at least creates the possibility that he may not docilely sit there until you have completed all your carefully-calculated combinations.
In other words, it avoids the chess-like artificiality that would arise if you could count on finishing out your turn in peace. In real war, as Molkte said, 'no plan survives contact with the enemy.' Early turn ending makes Moltke's dictum much more likely to be reproduced in OPART.
Agreed, except I would change it. I've seen too many turns burn out whilst a surrounded dug in motorcycle recce regiment held out to the last round to not be irritated by this. An attack on limit losses should last 20% turn time and if no result is forced end as a draw with the player free to resume the attack the following turn if he so pleases. I think it unbalances the entire game.
I appreciate this introduces an element of uncertainty but I don;t think it helps in WEGO. The whole point is both sides get a turn.
I'd agree that all other changes should be gameplay (flexible formations, realistic supply model, better replacement model and better HQ rules and mechanisms to slow sides down) but turn burn is one thing I would remove.
That and some of the size constrictions.
Regards,
IronDuke
My own preference would be to somehow limit the effect: to make the early turn ending affect all units within a (designer set) radius of the unit that 'turn burns.' Or perhaps limited to the formations involved in the combat. Or something.
The primary problem I've had with early turn ending as it stood (other than my turn ending) was that the system basically made it criminal folly to conduct minor attacks. The classic was a scenario that covered the Finnish front and the operations of Army Group North in the Baltic states in 1941.
Well, there you are. You're mounting all these front-wide, army group-level assaults down along the Dvina. Now, should you let Finnish Ski Battalion 39 badger Russian Border Police detachment 38 up somewhere in the tundra?
Better not -- if the attack goes wrong, it'll bring all of Army Group North to a screeching halt. The ski bns just had to let the Russians be. That wasn't too cool.
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