Can bunting be looked at? (Full Version)

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GNDN -> Can bunting be looked at? (1/23/2008 2:42:46 AM)

Ok, to preface this with maybe it's just me but can the bunting logic be looked at?

I like to play the NL due to the strategy components of having the pitcher bat and the small ball feel of some of the teams. One of the aspects of this is bunting and I do not think it is tilted towards success.

I play a replay of the 2007 Mets with Jose Reyes and Luis Castillo. These 2 cannot bunt there way on base. Ever. Also, sacrfices seem to fail more than they succeed. Right now, I do not bunt at all because I do not feel it is a tactic that will succeed. I have no facts, just the feeling and it nags at me.

It is not just my Mets, either. I managed every single Mets game and bunting simply failed far more than it succeeded by my opponents also. Heck, I played the Phillies 16 times and do not believe Rollins ever attempted a bunt against me.

I know not every sacrifice will be successful nor every bunt attempt will be a hit but I should at least feel I can succeed at it.

Does that make sense? Or should I lay off the beer for a couple hours.....



KG Erwin -> RE: Can bunting be looked at? (1/23/2008 2:55:44 AM)

GNDN, sorry for butting in, again, but I HAVE seen (and have pulled off) a few successful bunt singles. That being said, they SHOULD be rare, regardless of historical era. An exceptional contact guy (and occasionally, even a pitcher) can make it happen.



Frozen Stiffer -> RE: Can bunting be looked at? (1/23/2008 3:03:18 AM)

The question is GNDN, what area do you suspect needs attention? Are you talking about a traditional bunt where the runner-on-base advances or are you referencing successful bunt singles?

If it's the former, then yes- something should be looked into as advancing the runner with a successful bunt is a key foundation of game strategy and small-ball tactics.

If it's the latter, then no- I think that the frequency of successful bunt singles should NOT be increased in the slightest bit. These are rare because they're not easy to pull off! If accuracy is your prime concern, look at actual, real baseball games and see how often that works. Note: not how often it's attempted, how often it works; there's a big difference in that.



KG Erwin -> RE: Can bunting be looked at? (1/23/2008 3:10:33 AM)

Hang on -- the sac bunt IS usually successful, BUT, once inawhile, you get that godawful bunt failed double play. Sorry, man. It happens. There's no 100% guarantee, even on the simplest play.



GNDN -> RE: Can bunting be looked at? (1/23/2008 3:39:34 AM)

Guys, it is mostly the sacrifice that bothers me.  They fail most of the time and it bothers me.  The bunt single thing....well, maybe I can assume the corners are in and I just need to be less predictable. 

Something to look at in my next season.



EricB -> RE: Can bunting be looked at? (1/27/2008 1:07:58 AM)

GNDN,

As a disciple of Sabermetrics, MoneyBall and the like, it might make you feel better that, at least in real life, a sacrifice bunt does not statistically improve your odds of scoring in a given inning.

I know this doesn't address what you're talking about exactly and assumes the PureSim world has the same perameters as the real one, but I just NEVER EVER bunt. even with a pitcher at bat.  



KG Erwin -> RE: Can bunting be looked at? (1/27/2008 1:23:07 AM)

Wow, EricB. Never bunt? Hmm -- the sac bunt is a basic part of my offensive strategy, as is the stolen base, and aggressive baserunning. You'd have a team like the late-40s Dodgers, with Robinson, Reese, Snider et al, and NOT have them play that way?



GNDN -> RE: Can bunting be looked at? (1/27/2008 3:49:15 AM)

Folks, I need to be a bit clearer here.  Eric, I understand what you are saying sacrifices not always improving my chance to score and have no issue with it.  What most gets under my skin is the failure rate of sacrifice bunts being too high.  I may not always score the run but to me that's is not the issue.  Decisions are made based on situation and there is a big difference between a runner on second with less that 2 outs than the pitcher at first with less than 2 outs.  With the 2007 Mets, I like my chances of scoring that run from second.

I suppose what I really want is Shaun to say "I will take a peek in between the real issues and see if there is something to it." Of course, he could also tell me to sit down and be quiet because the kids are waiting for me at the bus stop.



33sherman -> RE: Can bunting be looked at? (1/28/2008 6:49:35 AM)

I've also found that sacrifice bunts fail a disproportionate amount of the time, regardless of who who is bunting or who is on base. In fact, I never bunt anymore because of it.



kcjoe -> RE: Can bunting be looked at? (1/28/2008 3:51:11 PM)

While I have not kept any specific stats on this, my experience has been the same as GNDN! Failure to successfully sacrifice to advance runner appears to be disproportionally high. I agree with opinions on accuracy of bunting for basehit.



Max 86 -> RE: Can bunting be looked at? (1/28/2008 3:59:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kcjoe

While I have not kept any specific stats on this, my experience has been the same as GNDN! Failure to successfully sacrifice to advance runner appears to be disproportionally high. I agree with opinions on accuracy of bunting for basehit.


Yeah, me too!

Can we have a bunt rating added to player profiles?



Wrathchild -> RE: Can bunting be looked at? (1/28/2008 4:38:55 PM)

Wow. I see just the opposite. My sacrifice bunts rarely fail, and I often even succeed with attempts for bunts to get on base.



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