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Jestre -> RE: World War I Book (1/28/2008 10:59:02 PM)
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"Mosier states that the Germans captured Ypres in 1914"
No he didn't, he said that the British were forced back into a strip of Ypres and the city was reduced to rubble, he never said the Germans occupied the city.
"Mosier considers that the battle of Amiens in August 1918 wasn't a 'real' victory for the BEF because the Germans were already withdrawing. Well actually no they weren't, that is why the Germans lost 450 guns and 27,000 men in a day and Ludendorff called it "a black day for the German Army". But these facts don't fit Mosier's theory that the BEF was totally inept so they are ignored"
Mosier supports this statement by quoting Haig "The old Boche is learning the art and science of retiring, and with practice he will become perfect. I wish to goodness we had four or five thousand more tanks." August 1918
Mosier also points out that BEF losses from July through November were over 100,000 men killed, over three times as many as the Somme offensive of 1916. The Germans did not break down their losses per battle or front but their losses for all of 1918 were approx 300,000 dead or missing, British 345,000 France 340,000 American, Italian and Belgian losses brought the Allied total to approx 750,000 men killed or missing. These figures are from official sources from each nation, not from BEF or French High Command.
"In fact in the last 4 months of the war the American army only took about 50,000 prisoners whilst the British and French took about 330,000."
Where do these numbers come from????
"Mosier portrays the 1914 German retreat after the Battle of the Marne as a well thought out alternative plan. He criticises the French for the name they gave to the battle... The French really had no right to claim victory when they were on the verge of defeat until the Germans withdrew is the view taken by the author.
But withdraw they did. The Germans manoeuvred themselves into a dangerous position and the French took advantage of it. Joffre gave orders for all the Allied armies to turn and advance along that 200 km front. There was heavy fighting and each side suffered about 250,000 causalities.
Calling it the "Battle of the Marne" was geographical convenience, and it is trivial to complain about it. That he makes such points casts some doubt over the author's judgement of what is and what isn't important."
Read the book, Mosier makes a strong case that is too involved to cover here.
"The British historian Basil Liddell Hart in his WWI history published in 1930 calls the relevant chapter "The battle that was not yet turned the tide". He says, "The controversy has at least served to show that the Marne was a psychological rather than a physical victory".
Precisely Mosier's point, the Allies took every opportunity to paint a rosy propaganda picture and jumped on any appearance of victory. Hart and Churchill are not supporters of the Myth Mosier debunks and have come under much criticism for their views.
Please read the book and see for yourself, letting the internet make your mind up should have a warning label attached.
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