Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (Full Version)

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Adam Parker -> Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/1/2008 2:09:36 PM)

Well, cap in hand I come before this hallowed forum, humbly admitting to the removal of Vista from my once pristine machine and its total replacement with XP Pro - good ol' XP Pro... after a mere 2.5 months.

12 blue screens from a brand new rig and some very suspect sound from a latest-chip-ready mobo caused the fear. Nervousness could not escape a once glorious experience. Would a program be compatible? What extra hardware would I need replaced? A big $2000 bill to upgrade my Adobe Creative Suite loomed. Would it all be worth it?

Dare say, yes. The sages here foretold.

Three things finally made my mind up:

1. Absolutely no new software or gaming innovation for the Vista platform in the last few months.

2. XP vastly outperforming Vista (Dx 9 vs Dx10) in Crysis by 24% according to PC User February 2008.

3. Bill Gates in an interview laughing; "let's wait till the new Windows comes out and I'll tell you then", to the question: "What would you have changed about Vista"? (Windows 7 is supposedly slated for 2009).

There are a few things I'll miss. Vista did look shmick. The new IE was nice. I disabled Aero transparency as it really was an unnecessary drain even with 4Gb RAM. The packaged games were very cool and the Sidebar was a great, modern touch (which would disappear from the desktop btw once you ventured away from it <roll eyes>).

Microsoft was amazing through all this. When my vendor called to enquire about the official MS Vista Roll Back policy, they heard: "Yes of course you can but you'll need your XP disc"! How nice and useless for a brand new Vista rig, Vista disc in hand. At least there are still XP copies for sale but they are becoming few and far between.

My advice, grab one while you can.

To be honest, blue screens aside - they can be fixed - but it was that Bill Gates interview that sealed it for me - the message delivered by his honest laugh: "Don't worry about Vista. It won't be out there all that long..."

Dare say... I was told. [sm=comp16.gif]



marcusm -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/1/2008 2:28:34 PM)

Did the same. It was a real pain due to HP.s suspicous strategy to remove S-ATA support for XP.

I am sticking to this until at least Windows 7. Or just get Mac Book Pro and double boot :).



Peter Fisla -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/1/2008 4:42:53 PM)

I knew it all along, Vista = Windows ME all over again. I will never buy OS from MS if they will have back door open for NSA, full of DRM and I'm not the admin of the box. On 1GB machine...after clean install and the OS is using 400MB already ? No way Chose! XP is fine just the way it is...I want to use the OS run Applications for me and fast...so OS should really be transparent. I'm not buying a machine just so the OS gets 90% of the CPU time. Sure I like my Windows games and that is why I'm still dependent on Windows XP however at the same time I have dual boot of latest Ubuntu...slwoly but surely I think I will eventually end up there. Lets see: so far I got rid off MS Outlook -  using Thunderbird now, Explorer - using FireFox, MS Office = using Open Office. I'm also developer at heart and I have to say so far though Visual C++ 6/2005 is hard to replace with anything better. I used be primarily Windows guy (I love Windows 2000,) though Unix is cool but with XP I don't like the activation crap and with Vista...that's where I draw the line! Ubuntu is great, installing it on my Dell M90 Precision Mobile Workstation everything got recogniced right during install, runs smooth, very stable and is very fast! I have dosbox for Ubuntu installed to play my dos games just fine...even have ET: Quake Wars and wors well.



Joram -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/1/2008 5:27:20 PM)

I'm not a Microsoft fan by any regard.  They charge you out the eyeteeth for their software.  With that said, I have Vista and Crysis runs beautifully.  Have all but shadows set on high and get over 30fps (which is all you need).  In fact, I only bought Crysis to see how good my rig was and am quite pleased.  I have had zero issues with any of my previous games including all my Matrix titles.  I had to download one driver to make some of my Ageod games work but once done they work beautifully.  I cannot in good faith to say it's any more or less buggy than XP. My only nagging complaint is that I sometimes have to "repair" my network connection after just booting up.  I don't know if it's a Vista issue or if I just didn't set up my network correctly (I started from scratch) but it doesn't happen too often but it is an easy step to fix regardless.

Do you need to get Vista if you already have XP?  Absolutely not, but it is not the disaster many people claim it to be either.  I'd be happy with XP too!



Terminus -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/1/2008 5:32:40 PM)

Gee, I'm almost tempted to say "I saw this coming"... Vista is scum, and it needs to go away.



ravinhood -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/1/2008 7:46:14 PM)

I love it when I get to type/say: "I Told You So". ;)



Nomad -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/1/2008 7:58:26 PM)

I bought a new computer in October, with XP Pro preinstalled. [:D]



freeboy -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/1/2008 8:25:18 PM)

yep, due to the HUGE negative feedback from users many aftermarket shops, and the large onew, Tiger etc, are all marketing pc with xp and selling xp stand allone.. I bought a copy of xp.. glad for it too



dinsdale -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/1/2008 9:37:45 PM)

Got 4 PCs with Vista. Apart from older software not running on it, never had a problem. No blue screens, crashes or hardware issues, including 2 pcs I've build myself.

Maybe I'm just really lucky, or there are things which need to be done to run it successfully which are more demanding than their previous OS's.




06 Maestro -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/1/2008 10:10:12 PM)

The Head Homer of PC Mechanic just reported that he gave up on Vista. He not only went back to XP, but bought a new Mac laptop. When an expert throws in the towel, it does not look good.

A year ago I bought a couple of HP's with a free Vista upgrade. I thought I would wait until the big service pack was released-maybe in six months time which would fix the expected bugs. It has been a year, and no service pack yet-or even being talked about. Vista looks like a big boondoggle at this point. I saved myself some trouble this time around.



ravinhood -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/1/2008 10:24:09 PM)

On another related note about Microsoft, they are offering like 44 BILLION dollars to buy out Yahoo so they can compete with Google. lol 44 BILLION dollars guys. I personally don't think the sale should be allowed. Microsoft already has too much of a monopoly in the computer industry as it is.



freeboy -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 12:00:31 AM)

yep, off with there heads, proverbially speaking



mllange -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 12:09:28 AM)

How 'bout somebody come up with something better that people actually want to buy and use and we let the market take care of things instead of begging for more government intervention? I'm in a similar position to dinsdale; I have 6 PCs in my home (5 children) - 2 laptops with XP Pro (one for work) and 3 PC desktops with Vista and a Linux box. I have over 100 games (literally) and only 1 game doesn't work on Vista, Warlords III: Darklords Rising (which also has major issues with XP because it was published in the 90s). I've run Apple OSx, have a Linux box and everything else you can name but for gaming nothing compares to the MS operating systems. Vista doesn't appear to be an issue for me at all, but then again I don't pirate software, download 'free' music and video, get my games from torrent files and porn sites, and all of the other wonderful things people do with their computers. I care about computer security and run a tight ship and the OS isn't the problem. Did I have to download a couple of .dll files from time to time? Sure, -- big deal! Compared to running a Linux box and trying to do even the most basic tasks, when all you have to do is download a .dll file or change your setting to Admin mode or change the compatibility settings it's a cakewalk.

People who try to piece their own hardware together without the expertise to do it correctly... now I can't speak for them; I have no doubt they experience problems. Just don't come crying or trying to blame anyone else... but then again I wouldn't construct a sedan with miscellaneous spare parts from a multitude of manufacturers, throw in a GM engine and then complain about GM because my sedan didn't perform perfectly either. Then again, maybe I'm just lucky and Microsoft really is evil...



marcusm -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 12:47:49 AM)

Well maybe they should have marketed it as a gamer platform rather than a serious OS.
As it is now you dont have a choice when buying a laptop. They force fed me Vista. They made
it hell to change back. My collleague has a 3000 dollar graphics card that doesnt work properly in Vista (a FireGL card).
How can one take an OS like that seriously?

Mac Book Pro and Leopard will be my next choice if MS doesn't get their act together. Works fine with XP on double boot
when I need to do stuff in C#.

Most important argument. MOO2 doesn't work properly in Vista. That makes it no go asap :).

I stand by my earlier comments. Vista is the new Windows 98 ME. Not even MS own developers use it. Just see a random MSDN video if you don't believe me :).



ravinhood -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 12:56:43 AM)

I wonder if Marc Schwab still thinks the same about Vista as he did well over a year ago when he was praising it so highly? You out there Marc? ;)



ravinhood -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 1:04:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nim8or

How 'bout somebody come up with something better that people actually want to buy and use and we let the market take care of things instead of begging for more government intervention? I'm in a similar position to dinsdale; I have 6 PCs in my home (5 children) - 2 laptops with XP Pro (one for work) and 3 PC desktops with Vista and a Linux box. I have over 100 games (literally) and only 1 game doesn't work on Vista, Warlords III: Darklords Rising (which also has major issues with XP because it was published in the 90s). I've run Apple OSx, have a Linux box and everything else you can name but for gaming nothing compares to the MS operating systems. Vista doesn't appear to be an issue for me at all, but then again I don't pirate software, download 'free' music and video, get my games from torrent files and porn sites, and all of the other wonderful things people do with their computers. I care about computer security and run a tight ship and the OS isn't the problem. Did I have to download a couple of .dll files from time to time? Sure, -- big deal! Compared to running a Linux box and trying to do even the most basic tasks, when all you have to do is download a .dll file or change your setting to Admin mode or change the compatibility settings it's a cakewalk.

People who try to piece their own hardware together without the expertise to do it correctly... now I can't speak for them; I have no doubt they experience problems. Just don't come crying or trying to blame anyone else... but then again I wouldn't construct a sedan with miscellaneous spare parts from a multitude of manufacturers, throw in a GM engine and then complain about GM because my sedan didn't perform perfectly either. Then again, maybe I'm just lucky and Microsoft really is evil...



Hey Nim8or I don't know if it will work on Vista but I know it does on XP. If you are having lockup issues with Warlords III, on your command line after .exe type in
-wincursor (that's a space and a minus sign then wincursor next to the minus sign) I had issues with Warlords III both editions until I found out that little tweak and both of them work now without locking up or crashing.

If you don't know where your command line is make a shortcut of your Warlords .exe icon and then open the shortcuts properties, at the top you should see something like C:\Warlords III\Warlords.exe (depends on what drive your game and what folder name you have it stored actually), but, after that Warlords.exe (just type) -wincursor
Just be sure and put a space inbetween the minus sign and the last e in exe. which should finally look like this:
C:\Warlords III\Warlords.exe -wincursor

Hope that works for yah. ;)



Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 2:15:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Well, cap in hand I come before this hallowed forum, humbly admitting to the removal of Vista from my once pristine machine and its total replacement with XP Pro - good ol' XP Pro... after a mere 2.5 months.

12 blue screens from a brand new rig and some very suspect sound from a latest-chip-ready mobo caused the fear. Nervousness could not escape a once glorious experience. Would a program be compatible? What extra hardware would I need replaced? A big $2000 bill to upgrade my Adobe Creative Suite loomed. Would it all be worth it?

Dare say, yes. The sages here foretold.

Three things finally made my mind up:

1. Absolutely no new software or gaming innovation for the Vista platform in the last few months.

2. XP vastly outperforming Vista (Dx 9 vs Dx10) in Crysis by 24% according to PC User February 2008.

3. Bill Gates in an interview laughing; "let's wait till the new Windows comes out and I'll tell you then", to the question: "What would you have changed about Vista"? (Windows 7 is supposedly slated for 2009).

There are a few things I'll miss. Vista did look shmick. The new IE was nice. I disabled Aero transparency as it really was an unnecessary drain even with 4Gb RAM. The packaged games were very cool and the Sidebar was a great, modern touch (which would disappear from the desktop btw once you ventured away from it <roll eyes>).

Microsoft was amazing through all this. When my vendor called to enquire about the official MS Vista Roll Back policy, they heard: "Yes of course you can but you'll need your XP disc"! How nice and useless for a brand new Vista rig, Vista disc in hand. At least there are still XP copies for sale but they are becoming few and far between.

My advice, grab one while you can.

To be honest, blue screens aside - they can be fixed - but it was that Bill Gates interview that sealed it for me - the message delivered by his honest laugh: "Don't worry about Vista. It won't be out there all that long..."

Dare say... I was told. [sm=comp16.gif]


Hey Adam,

Don't forget about the dual-boot option. It sounds like you have a copy of both XP and Vista now, so there's no reason why you can't have them both on the same machine.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)



mllange -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 3:46:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: marcusm

Most important argument. MOO2 doesn't work properly in Vista. That makes it no go asap :).



I've got MOO2 running on Vista currently... what kind of problems are you having, maybe there's a fix?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Hey Nim8or I don't know if it will work on Vista but I know it does on XP. If you are having lockup issues with Warlords III, on your command line after .exe type in
-wincursor (that's a space and a minus sign then wincursor next to the minus sign) I had issues with Warlords III both editions until I found out that little tweak and both of them work now without locking up or crashing.

If you don't know where your command line is make a shortcut of your Warlords .exe icon and then open the shortcuts properties, at the top you should see something like C:\Warlords III\Warlords.exe (depends on what drive your game and what folder name you have it stored actually), but, after that Warlords.exe (just type) -wincursor
Just be sure and put a space inbetween the minus sign and the last e in exe. which should finally look like this:
C:\Warlords III\Warlords.exe -wincursor

Hope that works for yah. ;)


Well, whatdyaknow? I re-installed the game, set-up the shortcut with the '-wincursor', set admin rights, set compatibility to Windows 95, set the option 'Run in 640 x 480 resolution' (after several other tries), and now it works! Thanks, ravinhood!! That was my one lone holdout I continued to have problems with. I really appreciate the help. I haven't played Warlords III for probably two or three years now... [:'(]



mllange -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 3:56:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: marcusm

... My collleague has a 3000 dollar graphics card that doesnt work properly in Vista (a FireGL card).
How can one take an OS like that seriously?

Mac Book Pro and Leopard will be my next choice if MS doesn't get their act together. Works fine with XP on double boot
when I need to do stuff in C#.
...



I don't doubt that for a moment, however I guarantee you can find dozens of expensive graphics hardware that won't work with Leopard / Linux, etc. right this very moment. Wait a 6 months or a year and someone will gear-wrench a patch-job to make it work in a cludgy kinda way, and another couple of months and you might be 90% there, but if you're talking about state-of-the-art, cutting edge hardware ANY operating system will have problems of some kind or another with at least some of it. Why not place some of the blame on the hardware manufacturers for the shoddy state of their release drivers instead of pointing every finger at the OS?

That said, I would love to have every operating system open up and allow the user community access to develop solutions; if you have patience, are willing to work a bit, and can live with equipment that is a few months/years old (which is the vast majority of us), then it's a beautiful thing. It just doesn't work for the casual user and the billions who don't or won't make that extra investment of time and/or effort; and they make up the larger marketplace.



Adam Parker -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 4:38:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nim8or

but if you're talking about state-of-the-art, cutting edge hardware ANY operating system will have problems of some kind or another with at least some of it. Why not place some of the blame on the hardware manufacturers for the shoddy state of their release drivers instead of pointing every finger at the OS?


There's a big thread somewhere here about Vista vs XP where I argued till I was blue in the face about how unfair it was for people to scare new PC buyers like me away from Vista. I went out and bought a brand new PC with exceptional specs and proudly piad for my Vista Ultimate disc, all installed.

I had absolutely no issues with Vista although I did have a sneeking suspicion that my sound wasn't right. The RealTek settings were scratchy, distorted - nothing I'd ever experienced before over 3 PC's and 2 lap tops.

Then the blue screens started and I new there was a conflict somewhere - and it was Vista caused.

My machine is now running smoothly with XP and my sound is better than ever. Every productivity program I own now runs fine including my beloved Creative Suite. And I have abosultely no qualms that my game collection will now load and run issue-free too.

However, I just had to try Vista. I'd always wonder what I'd missed if not. I'm just now very glad to be home. I never want that experience repeated.



ravinhood -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 5:39:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nim8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: marcusm

Most important argument. MOO2 doesn't work properly in Vista. That makes it no go asap :).



I've got MOO2 running on Vista currently... what kind of problems are you having, maybe there's a fix?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Hey Nim8or I don't know if it will work on Vista but I know it does on XP. If you are having lockup issues with Warlords III, on your command line after .exe type in
-wincursor (that's a space and a minus sign then wincursor next to the minus sign) I had issues with Warlords III both editions until I found out that little tweak and both of them work now without locking up or crashing.

If you don't know where your command line is make a shortcut of your Warlords .exe icon and then open the shortcuts properties, at the top you should see something like C:\Warlords III\Warlords.exe (depends on what drive your game and what folder name you have it stored actually), but, after that Warlords.exe (just type) -wincursor
Just be sure and put a space inbetween the minus sign and the last e in exe. which should finally look like this:
C:\Warlords III\Warlords.exe -wincursor

Hope that works for yah. ;)


Well, whatdyaknow? I re-installed the game, set-up the shortcut with the '-wincursor', set admin rights, set compatibility to Windows 95, set the option 'Run in 640 x 480 resolution' (after several other tries), and now it works! Thanks, ravinhood!! That was my one lone holdout I continued to have problems with. I really appreciate the help. I haven't played Warlords III for probably two or three years now... [:'(]


See and some think I'm a demented mean old man. ;) Glad it worked. I was in the same boat with XP and someone on another forum suggested it to me.

As for Vista, it's not so much as it's another money grab by Microsoft/Gates it's that out of the chute it's more highly not recommended by some of the professionals and experts that it's just not real popular right now. If it works for 1 out of a 100 does that make it good OS for everyone to buy? ;) Even if it worked for 50/100 would that be a good OS to buy? Regardless if people build their own or not or those that buy them straight up from the factory all of them should be running it at 95% rate of success anything less is just unexceptable. I expect the "casual" issues with ANY OS, but, these issues aren't casual with Vista, everytime I turn around I hear another complaint about it long before I hear of someone having a success.

Just look at Adam Parker...lol, lord knows he was sooooo adamant of how great Vista was and then look what happened to him and his experience with Vista. So, just because it hasn't happened to you yet doesn't mean murphy won't hit you later on. ;) I'm not wishing or hoping it will happen to you...it's just that there's too much information of issues with it right now to warrant even using it for several more years. It was a long time before I upgraded to XP, I certainly didn't rush out to get it when it was released or even years later. I don't think I got XP until I was playing some online game that required it. There's nothing worth it right now to get Vista and in a few years it will be as inexpensive as ME I betcha.



mllange -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 8:30:36 AM)

I won't make that argument. I would never argue that Vista is a worthwhile upgrade from XP as a stand-alone purchase, for a business or individual. It is certainly overpriced and doesn't bring anything groundbreaking to the table. I guess I just get frustrated by the seeming non-stop bashing of a system that I haven't had any real problems with, I don't see it as an evil OS - and I also suppose I am lucky. Based on my experience, if you buy a new Vista-installed system that has been crafted with care and professionalism and take care of it, Vista should perform for you. Better than XP? Yes in certain areas and almost certainly worse in others. That's my experience with the operating system over the last year. Then again, I am someone who likes to fart around with Linux, even though there are few people I would recommend it to, and even then only those I knew had some technical savy and patience (and another system for emergencies so they can still get online to figure out how the heck to fix their newest problem when they change something or install new hardware).

There I go, I've probably jinxed myself and my Vista systems will go on the fritz tonight corrupting all of those saved game files...



Awac835 -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 10:11:50 AM)

More games would be made for Linux/Unix if more people would use it. Its not like OpenGL cant stand up to DirextX. Sure you might be missing something on the sound and input not sure there.

And its a myth that Linux is so hard to use. Today you can do 99.9% of everything from within a graphical context just as you do it in windows. The only reason to use a console today is its easier on the wrist and quicker if you know what your doing, and dont forget about the geek factor(i love my VIM).

Linux have short falls such as stupid dependecy issues and you need to be know some programming some times if you want to compile from source. But for your everyday programs you get as binarys its easy as pie.
But thats not saying windows dont have shortfalls to. Since everything runs much faster in Linux on my humble laptop i only boot windows when i need to play either Advanced Tactics or do some .NET stuff. Ive even grown fond of LaTeX. And have sworn off MS Word from now on. I even got some class mates to admit that TeX was pretty neat and better for bigger repports then Word.

But indeed death to Vista[sm=00000106.gif] 

Long live, Tiger, Leopard and the pinguin [:D]



Kuokkanen -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 6:36:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dinsdale

Got 4 PCs with Vista. Apart from older software not running on it, never had a problem. No blue screens, crashes or hardware issues, including 2 pcs I've build myself.

Same here... almost. I'm typing this with my dad's new PC with Vista on it. So far only two major problems with Vista:
1. Learning its ins and outs
2. Old printer don't work

Greater problems are with PC's hardware, or lack of it: no parallel port, and no disk drive. Had to buy external USB drive for 40 €... my dad pays it, so no problem for me. And old printer will go along with old PC to other building, so it isn't crisis either.



marcusm -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 7:11:19 PM)

nim8or

My solution is very simple. It is not to fix what isn't broken. The right answer would have been to enhance XP, not make something worse. Vista ran for me (except MOO2 for some weird reason). It just didn't run as well as XP. When even my MS apps ran worse then I began to wonder if something was fundamentally wrong with the Kernel in Vista. Now it turns out MS themselves felt there was something wrong with it.

My personal solution is to either wait for Windows 7 or buy something with Leopard next time. Unless Ubuntu catches up for real like IBM says :).

Here is something funny. The Vista Explorer directory tree didn't always synchronize the contents with the selected directory. How can something like that be broken in an OS 2007?



leastonh1 -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/2/2008 10:39:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Hey Nim8or I don't know if it will work on Vista but I know it does on XP. If you are having lockup issues with Warlords III, on your command line after .exe type in
-wincursor (that's a space and a minus sign then wincursor next to the minus sign) I had issues with Warlords III both editions until I found out that little tweak and both of them work now without locking up or crashing.


If this works Ravinhood, I'll be your best friend forever! Warlords III has been sat glumly on my shelf for ages, gathering dust. I played the game for years until it died under XP, and I still miss it. It's a fantastic light strategy game and I had a lot of fun with it. So, I'll be giving it a go tomorrow. Fingers crossed. Thank you for sharing [:D]

Regards,
Jim



e_barkmann -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/3/2008 12:50:47 AM)

you can use the -wincursor command line feature to get Warlords III - Darklords Rising to work in xp but I don't think it will work for the Reign of Heroes version.

Have a look at this page for help:

http://www.warlorders.com/howto.html

Also make sure you have installed the 1.02 patch, lots of new features and balancing of units.

cheers



ravinhood -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/3/2008 2:13:39 AM)

Worked for me Chris on both games of Warlords III. [:D]



e_barkmann -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/3/2008 3:08:28 AM)

there's really no need to load up ROH, as all the ROH scens and campaigns are in DLR upgraded to the DLR engine.

cheers



ravinhood -> RE: Revisiting Vista - Bye Bye Big V (2/3/2008 5:34:35 AM)

Yes there is because if you don't patch up ROH you can make Dragon Mercs that you can get from easy quests. You can't do that in DLR. ;) They really made it hard to get a decent unit in the #1 merc slot of DRL at 2500pts for the majority of the good ones. Been awhile since I played it, but, I think I was able to create a custom army with Liches in that spot and nothing else good anywhere else even in the allies boxes.

Also, even if you do patch up ROH you can still get Liches and Elephants in that #1 Merc slot anyways and still a pretty good unit in the #1 box of Allies. ;) And after playing them both I still like the AI play in ROH than I do DLR. I was amazed at the ease really that I swept the AI in DLR.

Now, if you really want the experience of a tough strong Warlords AI, get Warlords IV with the 1.04a patch. My gawd the first time I played that on the most difficult levels I got stomped so bad. lol Wow, it has an amazing AI and strong too. I had to move down to normal difficulty just to get 3 retinues that I could fight with on the harder levels. But, what happened is because you retain your relics throughout your retinues lives I was able to build up three practically unbeatable heroes and I had one that was truely invinicible with some shield and sword and crown I found, but, getting there was the fun part. You start over once you become invincible and look for those relics again. ;)



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