German Rifle Grenades (Full Version)

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craig77 -> German Rifle Grenades (9/19/2000 9:27:00 AM)

Just curious where the info came from. I notice that German squads are equipped with Rifle grenade launchers early in the war. All the information I have shows That the German's were not issued Rifle Grenade launchers until sometime in 1941. This device only had Armor Piercing Rounds. In 1943 a new device was issued. This was capable of firing HE and Anti Armor rounds. The le GrW fufilled the role of the Grenade launcher until 1943. Thanx



von Bult -> (9/20/2000 12:09:00 AM)

Historical accuracy is very imortant to me, Thanks for your input. Could you tell me when German panzer units started using APCR ammunition?



Supra89 -> (9/20/2000 1:08:00 AM)

Does APCR refer to the tungsten rounds that were used by the Germans ?



Jon Grasham -> (9/20/2000 1:19:00 AM)

There were HE versions, several at that. Here are some types used by Germany, from the Handbook on German Military forces. 1.17" HE Gewehr Sprenggranate (also an increased range model with extension to name, AT- Gewehr panzergranate 30 Large AT RG- Gross Gewehr Panzergranate 40 46mm Hollow charge- S.S. Gewehr Panzergranate 46 61mm Hollow Charge- S.S. Gewehr Panzergranate 61 Gewehr Granatpatrone 30- HEAT (Hollow charge) Also there were illumination, incindiary, and propaganda Rifle grenades, but they aren't really important for the game... unless your too lazy to type your "propaganda" telling your opponent will loose... (at 200 yards, the messages could be easily shouted... but I guess Jerry knew how to best allocate his resources. :-)



von Bult -> (9/20/2000 1:23:00 AM)

Yes.



Voriax -> (9/20/2000 2:07:00 AM)

An interesting site with plenty of information about German shaped charge munitions is: http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust.htm Of course rifle grenades are also mentioned but no service entry dates though. As for the tank rounds, they had the Pz.Gr. 39 which was the standard AP round. Then the Pz.Gr.40/41/42 which were different versions of APCR ammunition. Then they made the Pz.Gr. 43 which replaced the 39 model when the Tungsten ran out. And finally there was the Pz.Gr. 44/45 which was a fin-stabilized discarding sabot round. Btw this round fired from the 88 L71 gun had a point blank penetration of 355mm. This number in these ammo names is the service entry year, afaik. However I have no clue at what time of the year (or the next year) they had managed to distribute enough of given type of ammo to say it was in general usage. And of course not all guns had all of these types of ammo. As for realism, the german AP rounds had a small explosive filler so that when the round penetrated it'd explode in crew compartment causing extra damage. Only few non-German guns had this kind of ammo. Is this in any way modelled in the game? Maybe the shell size of german tank/AT guns should be 1 higher than other nation's guns of similar calibre? Voriax



Paul Vebber -> (9/20/2000 3:04:00 AM)

I believe it was report "Lessons Learned for WW2 Tank combat" that indicates there is no appreciable difference in kill chance for APHE (or the ATR rounds that carried a pellet of tea gas...) over conventional AP. The slight decrease in shell weight to include the charge seeming more than compensating for the little extra "oomp" upon penetration.



Sunray -> (9/20/2000 4:19:00 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by craig77: [B] Just curious where the info came from. I notice that German squads are equipped with Rifle grenade launchers early in the war. Curiously, those soldiers don't have the hand grenades they should have. That seems obviously a confusion between Stielhandgranate (hand gren) and Gew Sp Gr (rifle gren)! Same problem for units nr 152, 154 and 157. Any thought ?



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