Newbie question (Full Version)

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RedSandman -> Newbie question (2/2/2008 1:21:49 PM)

Just purchased the game but really struggling on basics. I have read the manual, not completey but the first few chapters. I have a few questions.

1) When I setup I place all the units on the map then end the setup phase. I get an error saying 'add or remove units' but it doesn't give any indications which ones to remove. I've added all the units on the counter page so I can't add any more.
2) What are 'factors' and how many should you put in a unit?
3) I run on Vista so I downloaded the winhelp32 program so the inline help would work but it just seems a repeat of the pdf manual. Is there another help programe or even better a tutorial.

The game looks very comprehensive but I seemed to be struggling with fundamental issues. The manual is good except I think it assumes a certain amount of knowledge about the game engine which I dont have.

Thanks in advance



zaquex -> RE: Newbie question (2/2/2008 3:19:38 PM)

u dont need to place all "units" but u need to place all factors. the message you describe comes from having "empty" unit counters on the map



Ted1066 -> RE: Newbie question (2/2/2008 6:17:58 PM)

Hey RedSandman,

They guy you want to talk to is Murat and he has a Tutorial FAQ running here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1695769

Ask him when you've got any questions, as his info tends to be the most accurate.

Cheers,

Ted



Murat -> RE: Newbie question (2/2/2008 11:26:02 PM)

Well Monadman and Marshall are REALITY and thus far more accurate info than mine but when I am wrong it is usually in the right direction (I think [:D]).



nukkxx5058 -> RE: Newbie question (2/3/2008 12:02:48 PM)

matrix promised to write a tutorial.

you are not alone struggling with the game. I personally gave up until i have a tutorial explaining me what I should do , in what order and why ...



Murat -> RE: Newbie question (2/3/2008 8:01:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

matrix promised to write a tutorial.

you are not alone struggling with the game. I personally gave up until i have a tutorial explaining me what I should do , in what order and why ...


I guess mine is worse than I thought [:(]



nukkxx5058 -> RE: Newbie question (2/4/2008 1:20:33 AM)

sorry, i didnt read yours ... were can I find it?
thx



pzgndr -> RE: Newbie question (2/4/2008 2:01:45 AM)

quote:

I personally gave up until i have a tutorial explaining me what I should do


This cracks me up. I have a refrigerator magnet that reads: THIS LIFE IS A TEST. IF THIS HAD BEEN A REAL LIFE WE WOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD WHERE TO GO AND WHAT TO DO. [:D]



Grapeshot Bob -> RE: Newbie question (2/4/2008 2:33:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

I personally gave up until i have a tutorial explaining me what I should do


This cracks me up. I have a refrigerator magnet that reads: THIS LIFE IS A TEST. IF THIS HAD BEEN A REAL LIFE WE WOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD WHERE TO GO AND WHAT TO DO. [:D]




The difference is that you didn't pay to be born and God doesn't hand out quick start guides.

He paid for this game. A functional manual with a quick start guide is an industry standard.

And, like life, this game isn't a test. It is entertainment.



GSB



Murat -> RE: Newbie question (2/4/2008 5:51:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

sorry, i didnt read yours ... were can I find it?
thx


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1693001



nukkxx5058 -> RE: Newbie question (2/7/2008 11:37:01 PM)

Ok the tutorial helps a lot for the first steps. Thanks. However, I didn't find the "attached ZIP" which I guess contains the full setup. Where is the zip file ?

I also had a look to the rest of the tutorial and it well done but the game seems INCREDIBLY complex ... rather discouraging IMO.

I hardly imagine how this could have been played on a boardgame !



fvianello -> RE: Newbie question (2/7/2008 11:48:10 PM)

With a lot of beating each other over the rules :)



Marshall Ellis -> RE: Newbie question (2/8/2008 2:10:17 AM)

The boardgame was nicknamed "Empires and Arguments" right? :-)








NeverMan -> RE: Newbie question (2/8/2008 5:11:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

The boardgame was nicknamed "Empires and Arguments" right? :-)








Pretty much. Mostly for differing "rule interpretations", as most like to call them. I sometimes call them "rules rapists". Either way, it's a lot of arguing.



ZoomBoy27 -> RE: Newbie question (2/8/2008 9:26:03 PM)

I thought it was EiA - "Ending in Arguments"



nukkxx5058 -> RE: Newbie question (2/10/2008 10:37:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

Ok the tutorial helps a lot for the first steps. Thanks. However, I didn't find the "attached ZIP" which I guess contains the full setup. Where is the zip file ?

I also had a look to the rest of the tutorial and it well done but the game seems INCREDIBLY complex ... rather discouraging IMO.

I hardly imagine how this could have been played on a boardgame !




Any answer regarding the ZIP file?

thx



yammahoper -> RE: Newbie question (2/10/2008 4:51:00 PM)

quote:

1) When I setup I place all the units on the map then end the setup phase. I get an error saying 'add or remove units' but it doesn't give any indications which ones to remove. I've added all the units on the counter page so I can't add any more.
2) What are 'factors' and how many should you put in a unit?
3) I run on Vista so I downloaded the winhelp32 program so the inline help would work but it just seems a repeat of the pdf manual. Is there another help programe or even better a tutorial.

The game looks very comprehensive but I seemed to be struggling with fundamental issues. The manual is good except I think it assumes a certain amount of knowledge about the game engine which I dont have.

Thanks in advance


Lets see...

1) As you place corp counters on the map, click on the corp counter after it is placed, then click the "add factors" botton in the lower left hand corner (or whatever the botton is called...next to it is "add to garrison" botton). Your available forces will pop up in a window. At what forces you wish with the toggle bottons. Note, if you place a corp/counter but do not place any factors in it, the game will tell you to remove them before going on. Empty counters cannot remain on the map. Also, leaders must be assigned. One thing. In set up you can place a corp anywhere and fill it. In normal reinforcement, the new corp must be in supple, either on or adjacent to a depot or in a city to recieve new troops.

2) A factor represent about 1000 men. So one factor of infantry is 1000 soldiers. There are Guard, Infantry, Militia, Cavalry, and for Fr and Ru, Artillery factors.

3) I have refused to touch Vista yet, so no help there.

yamma



Murat -> RE: Newbie question (2/10/2008 7:42:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx
quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx
Ok the tutorial helps a lot for the first steps. Thanks. However, I didn't find the "attached ZIP" which I guess contains the full setup. Where is the zip file ?

I also had a look to the rest of the tutorial and it well done but the game seems INCREDIBLY complex ... rather discouraging IMO.

I hardly imagine how this could have been played on a boardgame !


Any answer regarding the ZIP file?

thx


Yes, zip files are not allowed in the War Room so I had to load it into Mods here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1694572



nukkxx5058 -> RE: Newbie question (2/12/2008 1:29:00 PM)

Thanks



PBI -> RE: Newbie question (2/12/2008 7:26:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

Ok the tutorial helps a lot for the first steps. Thanks. However, I didn't find the "attached ZIP" which I guess contains the full setup. Where is the zip file ?

I also had a look to the rest of the tutorial and it well done but the game seems INCREDIBLY complex ... rather discouraging IMO.

I hardly imagine how this could have been played on a boardgame !



It's simple; us old wargamers had to learn to read the rules - all of them - and interpret them without the crutch of computer code to do our thinking for us. The best way to learn the rules for a wargame is to read through the rules once, try a test game (with the rule book open and handy), then read through the rules again in more depth, paying particular attention to the sections where one had trouble from the test game.

In this specific instance, the definition of the difference between units and factors is clearly spelled out in the manual.

As for knowing what to do, well, again, there us old-school wargamers have the advantage of having been forced to use the trial-and-error method :) We'd try different strategies (usually based around the victory conditions) and see what worked and what didn't, then make adjustments, and so on. We didn't have tutorials, but then again, we didn't have interface problems, either. It's amazing what one's brain and pen and paper can accomplish.



AresMars -> RE: Newbie question (2/12/2008 7:45:47 PM)

It is funny how modern computer games have changed the way wargames are played and learned.

I am feeling old now but proud that I did it ole skool!   [;)]



NeverMan -> RE: Newbie question (2/13/2008 5:45:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PBI


quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

Ok the tutorial helps a lot for the first steps. Thanks. However, I didn't find the "attached ZIP" which I guess contains the full setup. Where is the zip file ?

I also had a look to the rest of the tutorial and it well done but the game seems INCREDIBLY complex ... rather discouraging IMO.

I hardly imagine how this could have been played on a boardgame !



It's simple; us old wargamers had to learn to read the rules - all of them - and interpret them without the crutch of computer code to do our thinking for us. The best way to learn the rules for a wargame is to read through the rules once, try a test game (with the rule book open and handy), then read through the rules again in more depth, paying particular attention to the sections where one had trouble from the test game.

In this specific instance, the definition of the difference between units and factors is clearly spelled out in the manual.

As for knowing what to do, well, again, there us old-school wargamers have the advantage of having been forced to use the trial-and-error method :) We'd try different strategies (usually based around the victory conditions) and see what worked and what didn't, then make adjustments, and so on. We didn't have tutorials, but then again, we didn't have interface problems, either. It's amazing what one's brain and pen and paper can accomplish.


YEP!! I second that.

BTW, I'm curious to all of those who played the original FTF:

How did you do it?

We would laminate the map (this required cutting the map in half, laminating each half since the machine at the local office store didn't have a lamination machine big enough, and then tape them together over a big piece of wood or cardboard) and then we would use sticky putty (just a dab) to keep the corps counters and leaders together and also to the map. Anyone else use this method.

And yes, after a few games we would need new counters, but someone was always willing to buy a new game.



Murat -> RE: Newbie question (2/13/2008 10:45:36 AM)

We laminated the map as a single piece (good ole' Kinko's) and the major and minor sheets (good ole' Kinko's). We used grease pencil to record strengths builds, enforced peace, etc. Everyone did a 1-7 bid for nations. We had a wooden die rolling machine and anyone could use any die that anyone brought that day (we were superstitious). We limited diplomacy to 15 min at setup and 5 min each diplomacy phase thereafter. All other diplomacy had to be done over the table. If you were not back to the table when the buzzer rang you risked being skipped. Wives and GFs brought food - bio breaks were taken during other people's combats. Chit picks were written down or told to someone not at war (and were unnerving when they let out a smirk after you told them your pick). Our counters survived well - faded a bit but survived.



Killerduck -> RE: Newbie question (2/13/2008 11:13:42 AM)

We hang the map on a metal board, scanned the counters and printed them on stickers and attached to magnets.
No need to pick up the board, no rush to finish the game in a weekend. It's great.
We've been playing the game for years. Actually, we have been playing _a_ game for years ;)
Another bonus is how the game becomes a spectator sport! People passing by (the club house) are curious and ask about the game and learn about the game.
Heck, you could get a small fanclub going if you play succesfull France [;)]




PBI -> RE: Newbie question (2/15/2008 5:44:11 AM)

Never did get to play EiA ftf, alas, but played many a monster game in my day (and still do).  We didn't/don't do anything to our maps and counters.  We put te map on the floor or a table, and stack the counters to the ceiling and uses written record where needed :)



TheHellPatrol -> RE: Newbie question (2/15/2008 6:29:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

Ok the tutorial helps a lot for the first steps. Thanks. However, I didn't find the "attached ZIP" which I guess contains the full setup. Where is the zip file ?

I also had a look to the rest of the tutorial and it well done but the game seems INCREDIBLY complex ... rather discouraging IMO.

I hardly imagine how this could have been played on a boardgame !

Same here, i'll play it if/when they release an "interface guide"[:'(]



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