LBA Respawn? (Full Version)

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Oldguard1970 -> LBA Respawn? (2/21/2008 3:26:37 PM)

If a land based air unit is totally destroyed, does it respawn, or is that unit forever removed from the order of battle?

If it respawns, where and when?

Thanks...



Feinder -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/21/2008 3:44:49 PM)

Yes, they respawn.

If they go down on a ship, or if their base is over-run, I think it's like 90 days, or maybe 120.

The re-appear on the reinforcement track, and will need to draw planes from your pools.  If they were set to upgrade, and a newer plane type is available, they may auto-upgrade.  If they are of a plane type that doesn't have enough planes to create the unit, and the unit can't upgrade, frankly, I'm not sure what will happen.

Also, some of your pilots will need to be replaced (altho usually most of your pilots return with the squadron).

I'm "pretty sure" that's how it works, I 'm probably about 90% correct.  I've just never bothered to look beyond checking the track to see that the unit was coming back as a reinforcement.

Note that fragments of units, if over-run, will not return.*  Only parents will respawn.  * The exception to this is the VMF-211/1 that starts on Wake.  Even tho it looks like a fragment, it's actually a self-supporting unit and will respawn.

-F-



Oldguard1970 -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/21/2008 3:47:10 PM)

Ah Feinder ...  When I saw you were reading the post I just knew a solid answer was on the way.

Thanks for the quick and informative reply.



Mike Solli -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/21/2008 3:59:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder
If they are of a plane type that doesn't have enough planes to create the unit, and the unit can't upgrade, frankly, I'm not sure what will happen.


I've seen this. If there are some planes in the pool but not enough to completely fill the unit, the unit empties the pool and comes on map with the planes that are available.



niceguy2005 -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/21/2008 6:06:19 PM)

quote:

Yes, they respawn.


REALLY!! [X(][X(]

I had no idea. How did I miss that? I thought only certain ships respawn.



Feinder -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/21/2008 6:11:01 PM)

quote:

Ah Feinder ... When I saw you were reading the post I just knew a solid answer was on the way.

Thanks for the quick and informative reply.



Well, unfortunately, my quick and informative reply is due to having lost more than my share of squadrons... [;)]

-F-



bradfordkay -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/21/2008 6:39:10 PM)

I have seen reinforcements come in with planes that are a downgrade; i.e., an F5A squadron arriving with CW-22s because there weren't enough F5As available.



Mynok -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/21/2008 7:31:02 PM)


It's difficult for carrier groups to respawn because the parent usually goes down with the ship.




Andy_MKST -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/21/2008 7:34:33 PM)

Any idea about where they will respawn? Or how to change it?

I've managed to lose a couple of the TB squadran from Malaya (1 in Johor Bahru, 1 in Burma somewhere), and they are both going to respawn in Singapore, so fat chance I'll ever see them again.

I think they respawn in 365 days, at least these two seem too...



Mynok -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/21/2008 8:33:08 PM)


I believe they would arrive if you take Singapore back.



Alfred -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 6:20:12 AM)

I have seen RAAF respawn in Sydney, USAAF respawn in San Francisco and RAF (together with USAAF attached to SEAC) respawn in Karachi.  The delay was 1 year.

Alfred



Jim D Burns -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 7:08:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OldGuard1970

If a land based air unit is totally destroyed, does it respawn, or is that unit forever removed from the order of battle?

If it respawns, where and when?

Thanks...


Destroyed air squadrons take 1 year to respawn. Withdrawn take 30 or 60 days (can’t remember which) and disbanded 90 days.

I know in my current CHS game all my Dutch squadrons that I disbanded on Java are returning now and I see two things. First the bombers groups come back with Dakota transport planes (no Martin bombers in pool), but the fighter groups are coming back with full compliments of 339 fighters. Granted it’s a crappy plane and of little use, but I’d have been happier if the default plane was P-39’s or something, purely for aesthetic reasons, as both planes are crappy.

So it looks like the squadrons retrograde to a minimum plane type and then they flesh out with that air frame even if no air frames of that type are available in the pools. This makes sense since they’d sit in the track forever if the minimum plane type wasn’t producing any replacements.

I can’t say for sure all nationalities default to the same plane types, so US bomber groups may default to C-47’s if no bombers are available to draw from and fighter groups may in fact draw P-39’s or some other crappy air frame. Brits probably draw Dakota’s and Hurricanes etc.

Jim



bbbf -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 7:34:08 AM)

Dakota's are on the upgrade path for Dutch bomber squadrons - I doubt any US squadrons would upgrade in the same way.



Mike Solli -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 1:48:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy_MKST

Any idea about where they will respawn? Or how to change it?

I've managed to lose a couple of the TB squadran from Malaya (1 in Johor Bahru, 1 in Burma somewhere), and they are both going to respawn in Singapore, so fat chance I'll ever see them again.

I think they respawn in 365 days, at least these two seem too...


When they come due on the reinforcement queue, they will remain in the queue "organizing" until you take Singapore back. Then they will appear at Singapore.



treespider -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 2:10:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

So it looks like the squadrons retrograde to a minimum plane type and then they flesh out with that air frame even if no air frames of that type are available in the pools. This makes sense since they’d sit in the track forever if the minimum plane type wasn’t producing any replacements.



Is this the same as with disbanded units?

If so does it mean the missing P-40's that everyone likes to talk about are actually there, but not really visible?

Meaning - Allied players usually don't see them because of the Sir Robin tactic, whereas if the Allied Player stood and fought and lost the P-40 units in the Philippines and he would have them subsequently reappear with free P=40's???



rtrapasso -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 2:39:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

So it looks like the squadrons retrograde to a minimum plane type and then they flesh out with that air frame even if no air frames of that type are available in the pools. This makes sense since they’d sit in the track forever if the minimum plane type wasn’t producing any replacements.



Is this the same as with disbanded units?

If so does it mean the missing P-40's that everyone likes to talk about are actually there, but not really visible?

Meaning - Allied players usually don't see them because of the Sir Robin tactic, whereas if the Allied Player stood and fought and lost the P-40 units in the Philippines and he would have them subsequently reappear with free P=40's???



No, the planes are gone and the pilots are gone... the UNIT might be reformed latter, though.

i am not convinced on this last point though... At least in our CHS 3x3 PBEM, units that have been overrun are not appearing on the reinforment list to show up latter (at least for 6 months, and AFAIK, they are not appearing on the list at all.)

EDIT: Finally, at least some of the units have appeared on the reinforcement list - closer to 1 year out, but this could be different depending on whether or not HIGHLY VARIABLE REINFORCEMENTS are set.



2ndACR -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 4:37:25 PM)

I would gladly take all the Dakota groups I can get.............nothing better than being able to rapidly fly in a regiment or division when they are needed.



ny59giants -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 4:45:11 PM)

In CHS, I disbanded a P-40B squadron into another and in 90 days it came back at San Fran with "free" P-40B that filled up the squadron. Saw that and stopped it as it seemed gamey to me.



rtrapasso -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 4:51:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

In CHS, I disbanded a P-40B squadron into another and in 90 days it came back at San Fran with "free" P-40B that filled up the squadron. Saw that and stopped it as it seemed gamey to me.



Only time i think that happens is if it steals planes from other reinforcements arriving... eventually you start ending up with P-35s or P-32s or some other stuff that is less than desirable... however, it is often difficult to tease this out.



Mike Solli -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 4:56:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

In CHS, I disbanded a P-40B squadron into another and in 90 days it came back at San Fran with "free" P-40B that filled up the squadron. Saw that and stopped it as it seemed gamey to me.


I read somewhere around here that Allied air reinforcements get free planes (they don't come out of the pool). I know for a fact that's not the case with the Japanese. Don't really know if it's true or not.



rtrapasso -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 5:02:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

In CHS, I disbanded a P-40B squadron into another and in 90 days it came back at San Fran with "free" P-40B that filled up the squadron. Saw that and stopped it as it seemed gamey to me.


I read somewhere around here that Allied air reinforcements get free planes (they don't come out of the pool). I know for a fact that's not the case with the Japanese. Don't really know if it's true or not.


i have my doubts... i know that if i start disbanding squadrons, some of the reinforcements start to show up with "strange" aircraft that i wouldn't have expected. Trying to figure out what is going on with so many units with so many different aircraft can be extremely time consuming (and/or frustrating).

In order to do a good job of it, you'd have to check transfers of aircraft between reinforcement squadrons EVERY DAY (and for every squadron). Personally, i haven't thought it worth the effort.



Andy Mac -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 7:55:19 PM)

Allied air REINFORCEMENT Groups i.e. ones arriving from another theatre arrive with a full complement of planes and these are not drawn from the pool. e.g. RAF Hurrican Sqns from the Middle East, US Bomber Groups when newly built.

Japanese air REINFORCEMENT Groups i.e. ones newly built need to be filled out by production to appear so these are drawn from the pool.

Disbanded, Withdrawn or overun reconstitutions of sqns for both sides draw planes from the pool. (e.g sqns over run in the PI or Malaya)

So when calculating the actual number of P40's etc the allies recieve you cannot simply take 12 x 40 for a years production it has to be 12 x 40 plus all newly arriving REINFORCEMENT groups

Andy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

In CHS, I disbanded a P-40B squadron into another and in 90 days it came back at San Fran with "free" P-40B that filled up the squadron. Saw that and stopped it as it seemed gamey to me.


I read somewhere around here that Allied air reinforcements get free planes (they don't come out of the pool). I know for a fact that's not the case with the Japanese. Don't really know if it's true or not.




Mike Solli -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 9:09:06 PM)

There we are.  Thanks, Andy.



bradfordkay -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/22/2008 11:09:26 PM)

Andy, can you think of why in my CHS 2.08 PBEM I had a USAAF F5A squadron show up equipped with CW-22s?



Andy Mac -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/23/2008 12:54:50 AM)

Basically because the game is stoopid...

Dutch C22's upgrade to F5's but US recon Sqns dont ever start out as C22's but they may have the C22 as a downgrade option - only none of them ever arrive with them so they dont.

But the link is there

Technically they are on the upgrade chain at the bottom for both USAAF and Dutch.

If the F5 sqn was arriving as a new reinfocement I am baffled the only thing I can think is it was set to arrive with zero planes and a forced downgrade somehow happened.

It is more logical to have occured if its a reconstitution or a disbanded sqn
I would caveat this that I never played CHS so dont know that game well



rtrapasso -> RE: LBA Respawn? (2/23/2008 1:07:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Basically because the game is stoopid...

Dutch C22's upgrade to F5's but US recon Sqns dont ever start out as C22's but they may have the C22 as a downgrade option - only none of them ever arrive with them so they dont.

But the link is there

Technically they are on the upgrade chain at the bottom for both USAAF and Dutch.

If the F5 sqn was arriving as a new reinfocement I am baffled the only thing I can think is it was set to arrive with zero planes and a forced downgrade somehow happened.

It is more logical to have occured if its a reconstitution or a disbanded sqn
I would caveat this that I never played CHS so dont know that game well



This is the problem i spoke of earlier... if you have disbanded units show up, they can soak up the planes meant for new squadrons, so you have "strange" planes showing up (like the CW-22 for squadrons normally supplied with F5As...



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