Scenario Design 101 - Art of War #8 - Objectives-Unit Placement (Full Version)

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Wild Bill -> Scenario Design 101 - Art of War #8 - Objectives-Unit Placement (5/23/2001 11:11:00 PM)

We are almost done with this battle beauty of yours. Remember that the example scenario is related to the Allied breakout from St. Lo and involves the 2nd Armored Division and assorted German forces. Last week we picked our units. When you open your scenario in the editor, you should see them lined up on both edges of the map. 1. Sorting Them Out The first step I take is to sort out these units by formation somewhere on the map. I put the B formation units together, the C formation units together, etc. Now instead of a "clump" of units, I have them arranged neatly in parade order. I do this for both sides. 2. Editing and Setting Objectives The next step is setting the objectives. Remember you place units always in relation to objectives, not vice versa. You can do it the other way, but the way I am suggesting is best. Trust me :D . Objectives are marked by flags. There are 21 flags. You can see them now on your map probably in groups. Some may be German, some US and some neutral. So there are three types of objective flags. In a meeting engagement I often set objectives as neutral. How do you edit these objective flags as you want them? This is simple. In the unit deploy screen look the buttons to your right. You'll see one in the lower left hand column with 2 flags on it. When you find it, click on it. Nationality Now a new screen appears and flag "0" is highlighted. For our scenario, we are going to set all objectives to neutral (the white flag with a "v" in the middle of it). So we change the flag by clicking on the second button from the top on the left. Click it. Notice the first flag. It changed, didn't it? Now we are going to make them all neutral. Click the first flag to neutral, type "n" and do the same with the next flag. Continue till all are neutral. Value Usually all objectives have an initial value of "0." That is not always true. No matter, go back to your first objective flag and set the value. But how much? The value of each objective is dependent upon a lot of factors. I usually follow a mental scale. For each 20 units on a side I add 50 points to each flag. Here is an example. There are 55 units on the US side. So I would make each objective flag worth 150 points. Other factors you might want to consider are the value of the units (high-low), type of scenario, number of turns, and the level of difficulty. So set your objective points for each using the same procedure that you used for setting the nationalities. Placement Now where do you put these once they are ready? Normally I choose what I consider would be real historical military objectives. These would include crossroads, high ground, bridges or fords, key streets or buildings in an urban complex (but not in buildings...perhaps beside them). In the map we have designed for this "Breakout" Scenario I would place my objective flags in these locations. Flags 0-6 (total of 7) in hex 28,14. The next seven (7-13) would go in hex 27,30. The final group of seven (14-20) would go to hex 35,20. You can see how they are laid out here. [img]http://sites.netscape.net/rcclout/tutorialobjectives.jpg[/img] 3. Placing the Units The last step in this section is placing the units. You have them now sorted out nice and neat. The next step is to put them into their starting positions for the battle. Before placing them, you may want to modify or change some of them. This is the time to do it. Here are some points of change you might want to consider. a. Changing morale and proficiency of units if necessary. b. Replacing the type of the unit if warranted c. Adjusting unit capabilities according to the changes made. I am not going to detail where each unit should go. That I will leave up to you. In this kind of scenario, however, there are some general rules. a. Place both sides equidistant (the same distance) from the objectives. b. Use a military type setup with units of a formation relatively close together c. If you plan on the human player only taking one side, then put the AI forces closer to the objectives. Why? Simply because the AI is more cautious in its advance. It takes longer to get to the objectives than the human player. d. If LOS (line of sight) is important, check it when placing each unit. e. When you are done, check the edges of the map to make sure you did not leave a unit. You can look at the smaller strategic map and tell by the tiny colored dots just where your units are. If you see any on the edges, you might want to check. That is it. Of course, remember to be saving all the time. Save every 15 minutes or so. Don't count on the stability of the game, your computer, or your electric power. Save often. We are almost there. Next week we'll talk more in detail about balance. Then I'll give you a simple scenario checklist to use for future design. Till then, Warriors, get your men ready for the attack! Wild Bill [ May 23, 2001: Message edited by: Wild Bill ]



lnp4668 -> (5/23/2001 11:20:00 PM)

Have a question WB. Is it possible to tell the AI to paradrop or glider reinforcement in a scenario? Since the planes and gliders are on map units, you have to keep the AI from moving them and somehow keep them hidden from the human player until it is time to drop them. I think this will be a great feature if implementable.



Larry Holt -> (5/23/2001 11:37:00 PM)

WB, If you need help... When you are ready to publish these excellent tutorials as a HTML document (table of contents, links to pages, images, etc.) let me know and I can easily assemble it similarily to what I did with my tutorial. It just takes a few minutes to do it as I use Frontpage express that handles the coding automatically.



adantas -> (5/24/2001 1:58:00 AM)

Hi Teacher! Well I posted the following at the last topic but I think you didn't see it, so here it goes again :D "Hi Teacher! Well I just have a small question and I know that the answer is some steps ahead from now but if you can tell now... If I want to add some effects at my scenario like fog with smoke granades? I saw at the forum some tips about play the scenario, use the arty, save and open it again.Well, I tryed it but when I opened my scenario on the editor, I always have map with only the troops and no sign of smoke or other effect.. what I'm missing???" -------------- Senta ā Pua!!!



Wild Bill -> (5/24/2001 4:40:00 AM)

Good questions. Here we go. Yes, Inp, you can set it up so that the AI will send in the gliders or transports just like with a human player. In fact in both cases, the human or the computer side, if it is set up properly, at the appointed turn the units will appear on the map. Just set up the gliders or transports as outlined in the manual, even for the AI side. Basically it is loading each craft, then clicking on the proper button (either parachute or glider) and setting the turn of entry, and the location of drop or landing. That is all there is to it. Larry, my old friend from G-2, I would very much appreciate that. While I've got your ear, give me a call. Its about time to get some lunch :D Any other of you gamers in the Atlanta-Cobb County area, you are invited too! Now for my good friend, Adantas. These are the steps to follow. You don't use smoke grenades but artillery to reproduce the smoke. 1. Design your scenario. 2. Add to either side 3-6 battalions of artillery (we'll remove it later). 3. Set prestart bombardment with smoke. That means assigning areas for this artillery to fire smoke. Be sure you designate smoke, and not artillery rounds. 4. Save the scenario in the editor. 5. Go to play the scenario. Start it. Let the artillery fire. Then before playing turn one, save the scenario. 6. Go to the save directory, find that save and rename it the same name as your scenario. 7. Load it into the Scen directory. 8. Open the scenario in the editor. Go to unit deploy screen. You should see smoke on the map. If not, retrace your steps. 9. Remove the excess artillery by hitting the "buy" button and clicking on the artillery in the list. It will disappear. 10. Save again. It should be ready. Example. I set up scen221 and add 3 batteries of artillery to German side. I also preregister bombardment of smoke before turn one begins. I save scen221. I then start the battle, let the artillery fire, then save it. It is now saved as Save012. I go to my save directory and rename Save012 as scen221.dat. I load that into my scen subdirectory to overwrite the scenario. I open scen221 in the editor. I see the smoke. I click on German "Buy" button. I click on the excess artillery I wish to remove from the game. I resave it as scen221. It should be ready to go. Wild Bill [ May 23, 2001: Message edited by: Wild Bill ]



skukko -> (5/24/2001 5:23:00 AM)

Howdy all :D One note of VOs placement: Some of the flags can be set to 'Victory exit' -hexes.Give them a value of one hundred and it gives 100 (is it 100 +units cost?) when unit goes out of the game thru it. Nice way to do rush-scenarios where other side is escaping. Now we have a little problem here: Usually units (AI) have objective set to this exit -flag, might also have a waypoints leading it to there. And this exit -flag is placed in the border of the map. Here is bug: You can't draw waypoints to the border of the map. So if you have exit -flag in the border of the map, and no value on it, AI don't go there with waypoints. If you have objective set ON the exit-flag units go there. And another thing to take care of: AI thinks its better to go thru the retreat -flag than victory-exit -hex...so don't set retreat -flag next to the exit-flag/hex. Sorry to bother your class WB, - but I was born with my mouth open :D :D mosh



Don -> (5/24/2001 6:57:00 AM)

A couple of things I have learned from WB, mosh (or Mr. 1002), is that exit hexes can be placed anywhere, not just on the edge, and that the value you give them doesn't seem to mean anything. I think that the value of the unit exiting is all that matters, and that they get something like 3 times that value in points when they exit. Placement - if your units are in the middle of a big map you can place the exit V-hex where they can get to them, which means anywhere. It's kind of fascinating that some of this is so "murky" and you can experiment with it.



Wild Bill -> (5/24/2001 7:07:00 AM)

No problem, Mosh! That is why I'm doing it here, getting input from the gamers. This is a discussion class, not a dissertation class :D As to objectives, yes, there are a number of different kinds: 1. Points at end of battle 2. Points per turn 3. Desired by AI but no points 4. Exit Hex (Unit ends turn on this hex, is removed from game with victory points) 5. Hex can only be captured once (the early tank gets the worm, er the points). Each of these has a purpose and help to enhance the types of scenarios we can do. More on that later. Note that only SPWAW has these five types of objectives, another unique feature of the game. Now as to the objective exit hex, the points given seem to be set points. Each unit that exits gets a set amount of points, about 2.5 of its original value. The points on the exit hex itself are not added into the exit points. I exited three PzIIIe tanks, for example, with values of 79, 77, and 75. As each one exited I was awarded the same amount, 213 points. The downside is that in such a scenario, any units not exited by the end of the battle count against the person who is to exit the map. Wild Bill



BruceAZ -> (5/24/2001 7:48:00 AM)

Well done WB!



Christophe Jaureguiberry -> (5/24/2001 10:32:00 AM)

This is getting more and more interesting by the post... :) Small question: Can you manually set a value for a VP or can you only increment them 10 by 10 by using the menu buttons? I am currently designing a French 1940 campaign called "La Défence" (11/05/40 to 25/05/40). The question that follows is a spoiler for the second scenario, so people who would eventually want to play it might want not to read it. However, I'd still like some players to read it so as to have an answer! :D In this scenario (which has been completed), the French player is retreating through the Ardennes. However, part of the batallion has escaped from Bouillon and the player should collect these troops before retreating back to the Meuse. The plan is therefore to set up an ambush, wait for the two companies from Bouillon (on trucks) to pass through the lines, and inflict sufficient damage to the German troops pouring through the Ardennes to make them pause momentarily, and buy enough time to retreat to Sedan. The game mechanism works as follows: the player can place his core force on a hill called "Le Douaire" dominating three converging roads. He has to hold this hill for at least 10 turns (time to inflict enough damage) before he can retreat through the exit VP situated on the south part of the map (they appear on turn 10). The scenario lasts 25 turns. On turn 10, a hidden strategic VP (can only be taken 1 time) appears on the top of "Le Douaire". This VP is worth a 1000 points and was included as a result of playtest, to avoid having the players head for the south VP as soon as the scenario started. As it is hidden, the player does not know where it is (unless he is replaying the scenatio). This is the question: As the battle rages back and forth (and it DOES, believe me!), there is a great chance that one of the reserve units will accidently cross over the VP and reveal it before its time. I have more or less solved the problem by putting the VP under the mortar unit, as there is less chance that this unit will be moved, but it is only a partial solution. Does anyone have a suggestion? Thanks and Regards, Christophe



Wild Bill -> (5/24/2001 1:54:00 PM)

Thanks Don and 5th Recon! Cristophe, the values of each objective go from 0-250 in increments of 10. If you ever see an odd # such as 45, that is an anomaly. Decrease the # to 0 and then build up. The odd "5" will disappear. As for the hidden objective, after a test or two you should be able to tell where a unit is very unlikely to enter, especially a wooded or rough hex. No guarantees, but that should work...Wild Bill



adantas -> (5/24/2001 7:55:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: Good questions. Here we go. Now for my good friend, Adantas. These are the steps to follow. You don't use smoke grenades but artillery to reproduce the smoke. ........ Wild Bill [ May 23, 2001: Message edited by: Wild Bill ]
It works!!! Hey teacher, thanks a lot !!!! :D All this stuff is really fantastic, there is no other word I can use to express the felling of seeing your ideia of shering your knowledge with us WB, this word is : THANKS!! -------------- Senta ā Pua!!!



Wild Bill -> (5/24/2001 11:04:00 PM)

Glad to hear it! That is my purpose, Adantas, to pass on what limited knowledge I have of the game to all of you. Anytime! :D Wild Bill



TheZel66 -> (5/25/2001 12:35:00 AM)

Does anyone know how to simulate soldiers asleep, or ones not immediately prepared to fight when they see the enemy?



skukko -> (5/25/2001 1:03:00 AM)

Thank you guys, few things cleared to me. I do know that exit and other VOs can be set to where you want them, my point was to tell that in the maps border they are useless with waypoints :eek: TheZel: Hard one? ;) but you can simulate this with use of Freds editor for example, by giving your units preset supression. It will take randomly few turns for them to 'wake up', depends of their leader and the fact that they should be deployed in place where enemy don't shoot them. Vehicles can be unloaded and manned again by save-game-freds editor-routine. mosh



RockinHarry -> (5/25/2001 3:18:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by adantas: If I want to add some effects at my scenario like fog with smoke granades? I saw at the forum some tips about play the scenario, use the arty, save and open it again.Well, I tryed it but when I opened my scenario on the editor, I always have map with only the troops and no sign of smoke or other effect.. what I'm missing???"
If youīre not that familiar with Freds programs, then as WB mentioned is way to go. If you want to have complete control on where and what amount of smoke (fog) you have initially on your scenario map, then give the procedures in the manual on page 224 a try. :)
quote:

Originally posted by skukko: So if you have exit -flag in the border of the map, and no value on it, AI don't go there with waypoints. If you have objective set ON the exit-flag units go there. And another thing to take care of: AI thinks its better to go thru the retreat -flag than victory-exit -hex...so don't set retreat -flag next to the exit-flag/hex.
Yeah..as mosh mentioned, itīs a bug! You canīt plot waypoints on VH (actually any hex) placed on the "enemy" map edge. Workaround of course is, dontīt place the (exit) VH there! Donīt forget, you can stack VH, even different ones on each other! Also you can make the Exit VH for the AI much more attractive, if you place another (non Exit-) VH on top! Combined with rough terrain (for MP consumption), you can get Exit VH for the AI to work, although limited. Steps: Place AI Exit Hex on "rough" class terrain, place any other VH with value <30 on top, then plot any AI units waypoints and Obj. flags there.
quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: Now as to the objective exit hex, the points given seem to be set points. Each unit that exits gets a set amount of points, about 2.5 of its original value. The points on the exit hex itself are not added into the exit points.
Thanks WB, this is an information I also was looking for! :)
quote:

Originally posted by Christophe Jaureguiberry: This is the question: As the battle rages back and forth (and it DOES, believe me!), there is a great chance that one of the reserve units will accidently cross over the VP and reveal it before its time. I have more or less solved the problem by putting the VP under the mortar unit, as there is less chance that this unit will be moved, but it is only a partial solution. Does anyone have a suggestion?
Yeah,..christophe...this is science of its own! What terrain is avoided or attracts the AI units!? Needs further investigation. For example if you want AI vehicles not to go to certain places, then at least you can do it with placing "boulders" terrain in or around the target hex. Infantry is difficult to predict. For your special problem,"friendly" minefield might help!? :eek: _________ Harry



john g -> (5/25/2001 3:29:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by TheZel: Does anyone know how to simulate soldiers asleep, or ones not immediately prepared to fight when they see the enemy?
You can also set them to no ammo and then give them an ammo dump or vehicle which they have to go visit before they can enter combat and fight. thanks, John.



Wild Bill -> (5/25/2001 10:03:00 AM)

Some very good ideas are being posted here, guys. Thanks. I'm learning innovative ways of doing things just by listening in...WB



Wild Bill -> (5/25/2001 7:01:00 PM)

Bump



TheZel66 -> (5/25/2001 10:12:00 PM)

I've got a scenerio I think is good to go, but I'd like some comments from fellow classmates and/or teacher. I want to get a website up and running to hold my scenerios, but until then, if someone wants to try it out, and let me know what they think, drop an email to tjhezel@home.com. I'll pass it on. Thanks in advance.



TheZel66 -> (5/31/2001 10:02:00 PM)

I dont think this was asked in any previous classes, but if I wanted to rename my units to something more than the generic SPWAW squad formation names, are there any good formats to use, based on Regiment/Battalion/Company/Platoon organization naming conventions??? My particular interest in in German AirLanding/Engineer units..



Wild Bill -> (5/31/2001 10:31:00 PM)

I probably won't have the time right now to test your scenario, Zel, but send it to me and I'll give it the once over. There is no set format for naming units. Sadly, the length of a title is quite limited. You have 15 spaces for letters and it fills up fast. Since this is a tac level game (co - Btn)I usually ID the country first (US, or UK, or USMC, or GE, etc) and then for infantry the squad, platoon, company. Example: GE 1/Sd/1Pn/A An HQ unit: GE HQ CoA/1Bn or GE HQ 1Pn/CoA For weapons I use: GE LMG/1Pn/A or GE PzF Tm/1Pn/A Armor is a little different. What you don't want to do is hide what unit it is. Some people can't identify a tank by looking at it. They need a name. Of course, I'll go wild on the better known tanks and give them names. Example: US Lady Beth or M4a3 Lady Beth Experiment and see what fits and what doesn't. Wild Bill



Wild Bill -> (5/31/2001 10:32:00 PM)

I'll be late with the newest addition to the scenario design class. Of course you know that by now. Sorry! Commitments on the home front and elsewhere! WB



Wild Bill -> (5/31/2001 10:51:00 PM)

I just posted this info on another topic but since we are dealing with scenario design, I thought it would fit well here. Making Units stay in place After experimenting with this feature in dozens of scenarios, I have found that the following method works every time. Let me summarize. For a unit to STAY in place set the type of battle to either Advance-Delay or Assault-Defend. ALWAYS! This is the real key to holding them in place. It is not enough to change the stance of a formation from advance to defend. Once you set a battle as meeting engagement, you are going to have defenders move. So make sure you set your battle first. Set the units to computer control. This is also important. Even if the AI is playing the defending side you MUST set each unit you want to stay still under computer control. Do you know how to do that? When you do this, notice that the reaction turn is automatically posted in the upper right hand corner with a default setting of 99. You can change that. You can, for example, have a formation stay in one place for 10 turns, then move. How? Set reaction turn to 10. So simply put, here are the three steps. 1. Set Type of Battle to Assault-Defend or Advance-Delay 2. Set each formation you want controlled to stay in place for the entire game or for a portion of it to "computer control." 3. Set the amount of time you want them locked in place to either "99" (they never move - no matter what) OR to "??" whatever turn you want them to move. That should do it. Wild Bill



darroch -> (6/1/2001 2:06:00 AM)

WB - thanks so much for the scenario advice in your many posts. And specifically, thanks for the "Stay in PLace" methodology - on another thread, in response to my plea for a technique to make them sit tight, someone said to give your approach a try. It is critical for my first scenario that the defenders sit tight. So far, in playtesting, it seems to be working - the defenders are crouching in their holes hoping the Panzers don't see them. No longer are they marching towards captured VOs and getting caught on the open steppe in route formation!!! Now I can finally finish this scenario and send it to my friend so we can start our incremental campaign game...I build the scenarios one at a time, he plugs them into the campaign game framework. When he's done he scrambles the set up a little and sends it back to me for my core battalion to grind through... As long as you load the next scenario into the campaign game framework before the current one ends, the software ignores the fact that it wasn't there at the beginning of the campaign. Provides a LOT of flexibility for the campaign game manager... We're doing Manstein in the Ukraine starting in September '41 and going until the fall of Sevastopol (which, at the rate, we're going, will be 2006!!) - plenty of interesting situations to model.. Anyone know how to simulate Morser Karl or the 800cm Big Bertha railway gun??? It would be just for fun because the ROF would be about one round every 4 or 5 turns at the fastest...but the impact would be catastrophic!!! Once again, Cheers to you for all the hard work and helpful information... :D :D



darroch -> (6/1/2001 2:08:00 AM)

I meant 80cm railway gun... :rolleyes:



darroch -> (6/1/2001 2:10:00 AM)

I meant 80cm...oops :rolleyes:



john g -> (6/1/2001 3:52:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by darroch: WB - thanks so much for the scenario advice in your many posts. Anyone know how to simulate Morser Karl or the 800cm Big Bertha railway gun??? It would be just for fun because the ROF would be about one round every 4 or 5 turns at the fastest...but the impact would be catastrophic!!! Once again, Cheers to you for all the hard work and helpful information... :D :D
Since the big railmount seige guns were loaded with concrete busting shells, any attempt to fire them at hexes that were not covered with dozens of yards of reinforced concrete will just mean that the shell will bury itself so deep in the ground that it does little damage to units topside. The shells were not designed to be contact fused or airburst so all of the explosive power will be spent moving earth far underground. If by some chance someone wanted to use them this way, something like a 1000 lb bomb times 4 seems to me about right. The shell walls were extra thick to penetrate concrete so the extra size doesn't give that much extra explosive capacity. Remember however, these were not pinpoint accurate weapons, I wouldn't want one firing anywhere near my troops. And I think your rate of fire estimate is way too high. Even firing against stationary targets it takes quite a while between shots with guns this size. thanks, John.



TheZel66 -> (6/6/2001 9:23:00 AM)

WB, Im working on my second scenerio. New concepts I'm going to try this time are reinforcements. QUESTION: How do you change the positioning of the re-inforcement entry flags??



Flashfyre -> (6/6/2001 9:59:00 AM)

In the Map Editor, select the hex you want one of the reinforcement flags to be in, then use the number keys to place one. The following chart shows: 0: Player One Retreat Hex 1: Player Two Retreat Hex 2-5: Player One Reinforce Hexes(1-4) 6-9: Player Two Reinforce Hexes (1-4) So, to make a hex the 3rd Reinforcement Hex for Player Two, you would select the hex, and hit the "8" number key.



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