C2 (Full Version)

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PrivateSlovik -> C2 (9/24/2000 1:50:00 PM)

Hi, I've been playing the tutorial and slowly getting the hang of command and control. I like the concept of it, except I only have enough command points to set an objective at the very start. After that suppression usually keeps any of the platoon leaders from getting back to 3 points. So then I can move a couple tanks, and the other two sit there watching the rest of the platoon drive away. Wouldn't it be more realistic for tanks in visual range to follow their platoon commander? Or for the company commander to assign multiple objectives- secure this area, then advance to here? Especially if he knows once the battle starts they will be out of contact. Even if my J0 has orders to spare and a radio link with the platoon commander, I can't give them a new objective. The only solution I've found is to set objectives to very far away so that individual units can continue to move, and this feels like gaming the system. Can anyone offer some tips on better use of objectives/movement? (i've already searched and read on Command and Control) Thanks



PrivateSlovik -> (9/24/2000 2:01:00 PM)

I should add that I'm playing the version 3 that came on the PC Gamer disc (I bought it specifically for SPWaW).



Paul Saunders -> (9/25/2000 12:14:00 AM)

C2 is easist to use when you have an experienced force with plenty of radios, i.e. the US Army. Inexperienced troops with few radios are much more difficult to play, but some people like a challenge. Bear in mind that many scenarios are not designed with C2 in mind, and such scenarios often won't play very well with C2. The designer should make it clear whether C2 should or shouldn't be used, but many don't. It's easy to tell whether a scenario has been designed with C2 in mind. If all the objectives are initially set to 222,222, then the designer hasn't designed it for C2, so play with C2 at your peril. If you want to use C2 choose scenarios which have been designed for it. Although I generally don't use C2 myself, I ensure that all my scenarios are "C2 compatable". The main thing to remember is to keep your platoons together, i.e. within 3 hexes of the formation leader. By placing units to the left and right you can spread a platoon over a front of 7 hexes and still have all units in contact. Contact is checked at the beginning of each turn, so make sure you end each turn with all units within 3 hexes of the leader. Units with radios don't have this restriction, but beware, radio contact can often be lost, so I prefer to keep my formations close together to avoid this problem. You can't give orders to out of contact units, so don't let them get out of contact in the first place. If they do, move your leader to within three hexes, next turn they'll be in contact again. Prevention is definitely better than cure though. As you've suggested, it is good to set distant objectives in case units do lose contact, a necessary strategy with inexperienced forces. It limits individual flexibility though. It's a good idea to keep the formation leader at the back of the platoon, preferably out of sight of the enemy. His leadership advantages are often more important than taking a few pot shots at the enemy. Units can move out of their objective movement radius, but this costs extra orders. If you are doing this, this might be why you're running out of orders, If you're low on orders try to move your units only within their movement radius.



rtr -> (9/25/2000 3:00:00 AM)

Hi, Compared with SP3 you get far less CPs per turn. I find I have to allow for 1 CP per turn per commander. That means at least 3 turns between objective changes. Finding the CPs for artillery and stance changes is harder. Regards Rob Reid



Raindem -> (9/25/2000 12:02:00 PM)

I'd like to add to Paul's excellent suggestions. If you're in a battle or scenario where you are setting up your own forces, make sure to choose your initial objectives and stance during setup. This won't cost you any orders. I also will keep my "0" unit out of harm's way, but close enough to the rest of the platoon so that they stay in contact. Sometimes I have to move my HQ next to a unit to get it to move. Setting an objective far away is, as you said, gaming the system. You'd probably be better turning C&C off in that case. Hope this helps. RD



PrivateSlovik -> (9/26/2000 11:12:00 AM)

Thanks for the good info. In fact the tutorial does have everything set for 222,222. Just to confirm though, once my units reach their objective, they can't be sent past the objective flag without expending command points for each individual unit, right? I like the idea of simulating command difficulties in WWII, but I'm feeling like this system is a bit too arbitrary for my personal taste. We ought to either be able to send new objectives down the chain of command, or set multiple objectives at the start of the scenario (go here, dig in and hold for 4 turns, then advance to here). Anyway, thanks for the responses.



PrivateSlovik -> (9/26/2000 11:14:00 AM)

Thanks for the good info. In fact the tutorial does have everything set for 222,222. Just to confirm though, once my units reach their objective, they can't be sent past the objective flag without expending command points for each individual unit, right? I like the idea of simulating command difficulties in WWII, but I'm feeling like this system is a bit too arbitrary for my personal taste. We ought to either be able to send new objectives down the chain of command, or set multiple objectives at the start of the scenario (go here, dig in and hold for 4 turns, then advance to here). Anyway, thanks for the responses.



Paul Saunders -> (9/26/2000 1:59:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by PrivateSlovik: Just to confirm though, once my units reach their objective, they can't be sent past the objective flag without expending command points for each individual unit, right
Correct.



BobD -> (9/26/2000 4:01:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by PrivateSlovik: I like the idea of simulating command difficulties in WWII, but I'm feeling like this system is a bit too arbitrary for my personal taste. We ought to either be able to send new objectives down the chain of command, or set multiple objectives at the start of the scenario (go here, dig in and hold for 4 turns, then advance to here). Anyway, thanks for the responses.
I have also just started playing the game (but started with v4) and had my first attempt using C2 yesterday. I was gaming the Italians vs Yugoslavs in a generated battle. As Raindem said, setting the initial objectives during deployment was free and got the ragazzi moving. During the battle I thought the C2 worked perfectly. Keeping the platoons together and moving only into the towards-objective-arc meant I did not have to use commands at all, so usually had enough command points to change objectives when required. The game does model the higher chain of command. The platoon's 0 unit has its own commands, and platoon squads will usually use them if they are needed. However, the 0 unit attempts to maintain radio contact with its company-level 0 unit: if the platoon leader runs out of cmd pts and it is in contact with the coy leader it will use the coy leaders cmd pts (as will a squad if it is close to a higher level leader). This rule continues up to the A0. I felt the game provided just the right amount of flexibility (which should be limited). I could usually change the obj for several platoons (out of a force of 3 coys), but not all of them, each turn. Using the C2 made it much more of a challenge, and feels much more realistic IMHO. -------- The only thing I couldn't get to work was artillery strikes. This worked pre-C2, but in this game I had an on-board 75mm mountain bty that appeared to be in contact (I could plot the fire missions) but the incoming FFE never arrived once! Must be doing something wrong... any ideas anyone? Great game. Bob



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