Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (Full Version)

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ravinhood -> Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/29/2008 11:21:04 PM)

You know if you guys don't have this one you really should pick it up. It's been awhile since I had played it last and I had forgotten a lot that I LEARNED while playing it the first time. I just got stopped again at HELVETII even KNOWING what was going to happen I couldn't resist a grunt rush attack and I got spanked for it. ;) haha

The AI in this game is really great after the 1.11 patch. The lil suker snuck one unit past me tryin to get to its objective flag (it has to get 2 units there before the 15th turn) and it made it lol and it was tryin to sneak unit number two by me, but, I did get that suker. ;) I won't tell you what all happened next, but, that I did hold them from reaching their objective and they kept me from getting mine as well. :) Darn sorry no good for nuthin cheatin bassturds lol. I'll give yah one lil hint, remember barbarians come in HORDES, I had forgot that myself. ;)

The artwork of this game is KOIOS's best by far to me. And yeah I've seen the Kharkov graphics, but, I'm not as impressed by green tanks and green terrain and green trees and green water lol well ok not green water except the swamps as I am these colorful lil men and horsies on stands just like we use to play em. Of course it's no Crysis (is that the name of that new fpser?), but, it has enjoyable graphics.

What this game is calling out for is a larger campaign map and a RANDOM BATTLE GENERATOR like Kharkov is going to have. Doesn't have to have a random campaign as for ancient times I'd be happy just to see a random battle generator and/or a buy point system for playing random setup custom games. There's only 14 different battles and so that's where the longevity and replayability go by the wayside of this one and why it's been awhile since I played it. A random battle generator and/or a buy point quick battle system like Combat Mission has and I'd probably play this till the moon fell. ;) Mainly because you will eventualy learn the maps and how the AI plays and beat every scenario and then it becomes well you know...boring until you don't play it for a lot of blue moons.

KOIOS needs to get back to its roots the ANCIENTS. ;) While Kharkov looks to be a winner I'd be more impressed with a better Ancients/Medieval type game out of them with the whole shebang like a Rome Total War done in the KOIOS manner. ;)



Grell -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 12:03:00 AM)

Hi Ravinator!

You know I just don.t like those Tin Soldier graphics myself, I tried a demo and was not thrilled with the gameplay.

Carriers at war has the same problem with limited scenarios and thus limited hard disk lifespan. Oh Joy! LOL.

Regards,

Grell



Hertston -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 1:47:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

KOIOS needs to get back to its roots the ANCIENTS. ;) While Kharkov looks to be a winner I'd be more impressed with a better Ancients/Medieval type game out of them with the whole shebang like a Rome Total War done in the KOIOS manner. ;)


But not enough want to buy that game - they wanted something with Panzers in it. TS:JC is one of Matrix's best games, I agree, but the concept, ancients, or both didn't sell well enough. Hence the move to Combat Mission clones.. Koios have much talent but, like the rest of us, still need to earn enough to pay the bills.

I find the obsession with WW2 as the only worthy wargaming subject on the part of so many both here and elsewhere quite depressing.



mikul82 -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 1:50:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

KOIOS needs to get back to its roots the ANCIENTS. ;) While Kharkov looks to be a winner I'd be more impressed with a better Ancients/Medieval type game out of them with the whole shebang like a Rome Total War done in the KOIOS manner. ;)


But not enough want to buy that game - they wanted something with Panzers in it. TS:JC is one of Matrix's best games, I agree, but the concept, ancients, or both didn't sell well enough. Hence the move to Combat Mission clones.. Koios have much talent but, like the rest of us, still need to earn enough to pay the bills.

I find the obsession with WW2 as the only worthy wargaming subject on the part of so many both here and elsewhere quite depressing.



Same here. I'm so tired of WWII games, and there was a time before when I thought I never would be.



marcusm -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 2:11:12 AM)

I prefer the Manassas style implementation of miniature gaming.





ravinhood -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 2:14:35 AM)

Haha I barely won my 2nd game of the same battle taking my objective flag on the 24th turn. Man I got so pulverized by those barbarians I won't be able to field a full force I'm afraid this next battle. Defense is not the best offense in this battle as I found out. You've got to get in on those flanks and fast in the early game to save most of your army for the HORDE you have to fight next. lol I like the game though these are nail biting experiences and you just don't find that in many games today espeically the ancient ones. I have to laugh cause I looked at the amount of bytes to create one of the best ancients of all times "Centurion Defender of Rome" it took all of a whopping 690KB hahaha KILOBYTES guys. Graphics take up too many resources and why many developers having a hard time today. With people like ummm uhhhh GRELL who don't like the graphics of a quality game like TS:C that's why we keep seeing WWII stuff. I do not need Total War graphics...just a good quality strategy game and a good quality AI to play it against. There is nothing wrong with the graphics of TS:C :)

It just amazes me what we got out of 690KB's and were happy with it back in the early 90's now we have people that scoff at those graphics cause if it doesn't cost millions to produce a game it's crap by todays standards lol. Another great game of the late 80's "War of the Lance" 774KB's! lol and then we have Sid Meiers Railroad Tycoon that comes in at a whooping 6.37MB ooooohhhh 6.37MB's guys you better go buy a bigger hard drive ;) lol Then we have "X-Com Terror from the Deep" (you hate those graphics also Grell? :) ) 15.6MB of an awesome game. Then we have trash like M2TW with 7GIGs of fricking wasted space hahaha. "1830 Railroads and Robber Barons" just a measly 8.46MB and it's one great railroad/robber baron strategic game.

Anyways back to Tin Soldiers:Caesar it's imho one of the best Matrixgames releases. Of course WitP seems to be the big popular, but, I just don't understand wanting to play a game that takes you a lifetime to play. How many of you out there that got it have actually FINISHED a round of it and no lying please. ;) (why do I say that I know they will lol).



Hertston -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 2:16:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marcusm

I prefer the Manassas style implementation of miniature gaming.


What "Manassas style"? If you mean the Madminute games (?) what do they have to do with "miniature gaming"?



marcusm -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 3:06:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: marcusm

I prefer the Manassas style implementation of miniature gaming.


What "Manassas style"? If you mean the Madminute games (?) what do they have to do with "miniature gaming"?


I used to play miniature games at conventions. Games like T2C:M took it to the next level.
Obviously the reasons miniatures was used was because that was the best one could do at that time. With computers came new options. Sid Meiers Gettysburg would have been the first really but T2C:M is a more current game so I picked that one.



sabre1 -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 3:27:40 AM)

Does TS:Julius Ceasar have a good tutorial to get you up and running?  Thanks!



Hentzau -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 4:12:18 AM)

Ever since hex games it's always seemed like the squeaky wheels called out for massive and complicated games, but I've always preferred the simpler games. Personally, I'd rather have a decent version(with AI) of SPI's old freebie "Napoleon at War" than most of Matrix's catalog. $0.02.



ravinhood -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 5:16:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

Does TS:Julius Ceasar have a good tutorial to get you up and running?  Thanks!


It's such an entry level game sabre1 it doesn't need one. There's a demo, but, it's like playing Combat Mission to an extent really. You issue your orders and then they play out in three five minute increments (you get a reaction phase during the 2nd 5 minute simulation), you can exploit a breakthru or plug a hole by placing some units in "reserve" mode (units that didn't do anything the other two phases). It's built around getting the best position for the attack like flanks and rears you can really work a number on the units when you do these maneuvers. It is really easy to play and I bet you can pickup on the play in five minutes of your first practice battle.

You can play out all the battles in a Campaign mode for the RPG/promotional element or you can play the 14 battles separately though you won't get the promotions to your units like you do in the campaign game. It's so simple a Caveman could do it. ;)


quote:

Ever since hex games it's always seemed like the squeaky wheels called out for massive and complicated games, but I've always preferred the simpler games. Personally, I'd rather have a decent version(with AI) of SPI's old freebie "Napoleon at War" than most of Matrix's catalog. $0.02.


In most cases of Matrixgames I would agree with you, but, not this one. :) I don't really care for the simulations and play the same battle over n over and have the same outcome over n over types. I wasn't interested in PC:OWS, but, I am interested in "Kharkov" for the RANDOM element the game is bringing to the table. I like fighting 100's of different battles not just one like say HTTR/COTA have or WitP or Korsun Pocket, etc. Games like Combat Mission and Steel Panthers (hopefully Kharkov) appeal to me most. That's why I said this one is just SCREAMING out for a Random Battle Generator and point buy Quick Battle system. ;)



sabre1 -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 6:36:03 AM)

Thanks ravinhood, I will get the game based on your recommendation. 

I am also interested in a good RPG for something different, so I'm wondering if you are still giving Titans Quest a thumbs up? 



Zakhal -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 6:55:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

Thanks ravinhood, I will get the game based on your recommendation.

I am also interested in a good RPG for something different, so I'm wondering if you are still giving Titans Quest a thumbs up?


I wouldnt consider it as an rpg. Titan Quest and Diablo are more like action games with rpg elemets (you have inventory and you can get new equipment).

If you want a good rpg with diablo style combat buy divine divinity. In som ways the game is a spiritual successor to ultima7.



sabre1 -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 6:57:04 AM)

I forgot to ask while I'm on the subject, how are the other ancient games? Thanks.



ravinhood -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 7:10:01 AM)

Can you be more specific? What other ancient games? ;) If you want a free one that is exceptional just hop over to Underdogs and get "Centurion Defender of Rome".  I don't have Tin Soldiers:Alexander because, I dunno I love ancients and Greek City State wars and Roman era, but, I just never was a fan of Alexander. Of course the gameplay is going to be identical, and linear moreso than Tin Soldiers:Caesar since in the TS:JC campaign mode you do get to pick which battle you want to fight next and then get a civil war battle at Alesia when you reach a certain reputation point score. Then after that comes the Civil War battles between the other factions of Rome. You get to do the same in those as well.

Then there's The Great Battles series of "Hannibal, Alexander, and Caesar" that's pretty popular. Then you have HPS "Punic Wars" and now "Gallic Wars" recently released that looks pretty awesome, but, these latter two are pretty complex and not your beginners type of ancients wargames. There's Slitherines "Spartan" and "Troy" (greek wars). "Spartan" is my favorite, but, combat is pretty much hands off and command control only. There's "Legion Arena" also if you want some RPGlike 3D action game, I wasn't much impressed with it, but, would like to see that combat engine in a COMPLETE game like "Legion II" if they ever get back to programming that one.


quote:

I am also interested in a good RPG for something different, so I'm wondering if you are still giving Titans Quest a thumbs up?


Yes, I'm still enjoying and playing "Titans Quest" and for the price you can't lose on this one with the 1.30 patch. I also discovered that as long as you get to a rebirth well you CAN SAVE at that location for when you want to play again instead of like I thought you had to get to the next town/outpost. So, that makes it even better now since that was one of my complaints. You definitely have to PLAY this one unlike Diablo 2 where I could pretty much just stand toe to toe and drink healing potions lol. I've come close to dying several times now some of them bosses is hard. ;)

Also, remember "Titan Quest" is pratically exactly like Diablo 2, so, if you didn't like Diablo 2 as an ACTION RPG then you probably won't like this. It isn't your DnD style like Neverwinter Nights, but, I have that one for when I want a DnD type of RPG element. And there's over 3000 player made adventures for the origional Neverwinter Nights so there will always be that type of adventure to play. I used to be a big fan of DnD style rpgs for a long time, but, when Diablo came around I quickly found I enjoy that type of element the best, hack n slash with the carrot in front of the horse leveling system and neat kewl new loot to find and use. It's more fun for me building a powerful character than it is playing a stupid talking dwarf character. lol Some like to chitty chat role play I like action roleplay. ;)



mikul82 -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 7:17:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sabre1

Thanks ravinhood, I will get the game based on your recommendation. 

I am also interested in a good RPG for something different, so I'm wondering if you are still giving Titans Quest a thumbs up? 


I recommend Divine Divinity as well. Depths of Peril is also a lot of fun, and there's an upcoming game from Iron Tower Studios called "Age of Decadence" on it's way as well, although AoD is supposed to play more like Fallout than Diablo. Titan Quest is entertaining as well, from what I recall it basically IS Diablo 2 (gameplay wise) but with a different setting.



sabre1 -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 10:09:16 AM)

Thanks for the input!  If I have questions about TS:JC I will post them in that forum.



Hidde -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 12:04:16 PM)

Ravinhood, I'm surprised you forget to recommend Hoplites. I'ts free and all.
http://digilander.libero.it/zak965/hoplites.htm
I just saw that's there has been some update to the side not that long ago. News to me.
As for the TS games I always take any chance to say how much I like them and how much I wish there would have been more. I agree with everything Ravinhood say about them. Would like to add that TS-ATG is actually a bit harder then TS-JC. That's how I remember those games anyway.



ravinhood -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/30/2008 7:14:54 PM)

You're right Hidde I completely forgot about that one. It is another good card game ancient wargame. I like my lil minatures from the TS:JC game though so colorful, but, then again those cards from Hoplite are pretty colorful as well. Another great entry level game for newbies. I wish someone would do that Ancient Axis & Allies like game that Milton Bradley released many years ago..and make it into a computer game...what was the name of that?....was it just "Centurion"?? I really think if TS:JC had of had a random battle/quick battle feature it would have sold more. ;) Plus if gamers coule have played more of the factions like in Spartan or RTW it would have sold more. It was kinda slim on the features it has. Many people like to play the underdogs like the Barbarians or Carthage or Greeks and Macedonians....when they make the NEXT ONE they need to put all that in there and then it will sell well. ;)



Brigz -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/31/2008 12:44:31 AM)

Gotta agree with ravinhood on this topic. The Tin Soldiers series is the most overlooked computer games on the market today. They are as close to the "perfect" computer wargame as you can get. Simple to play, easy to use, and lot's of fun and virtually bug free. The best part is that they have that, "can't stop, must play the next turn" addiction factor. It's like those old cliffhanger serials. You just can't wait to see what will happen next. They may not be everyone's cup of tea but I urge anyone that wants a good, fun game to at least try one of these. If KOIOS made ten more games in this ancients series I'd buy every one of them in a minute. Every gamer should have at least one of these titles in their library.

When I first saw TS:Alexander I was a bit put-off by the graphics, but after buying the game and playing it, I soon turned a 180 and actually like the graphics. They give the game some of it's unique feel. At first I was a bit P.O.'d to find that in Alexander (not Caesar) you had to play each scenario in sequence in order to go on to the next scenario. However, I soon realized that this was actually a good thing. Kind of gives a programmed learning approach.

And yes, after playing each battle several times you do lose some of the "surprise" factor, but, like ravinhood did, you can put the game away for a while and then go back and play it and it is as fresh as when you first played it.

Oh, and ravinhood...you can unlock the TS:Alexander game to be able to play the individual battles without having to play through them sequentially. In the Tin Soldiers forum section there should be a post that explains how.




ravinhood -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/31/2008 1:49:07 AM)

One of the things I enjoy most about it and I harp on this a lot in development type threads is that you can play a scenario out in about an hour. I've said time and time again we need more wargames on the computer that we can play in a 1 to 4 hour period. Being able to save those week long or month long games is fine an dandy IF you are going to continue to play it constantly. But, I find going back to game saves of games I never finished I have completely forgotten what my focus and direction was.

I would recommend TS:JS to any newcomer to wargaming. It's really simple to understand, but, it isn't so easy to master. I just finished my 2nd battle Nervii and just barely eeked out a 610 minor victory. There is no way in hell to prevent the AI from getting their flag in this one lol they have like 2 to 1 and you have an opening between each legion/cav unit on either side at the start. haha very funny KOIOS why not just GIVE the AI those points? lol I would be amazed to see someone get a MAJOR VICTORY in this one on HARD difficulty. If you can or have then you a better man than me Ghunga Din. ;) Now just this battle not the whole series of them as some are easier than others.



Goblin -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/31/2008 1:55:53 AM)

Excellent game. [8D]

Very fun, and definately has the "can't stop, must play the next turn" addiction factor that Dave mentioned above.


Goblin



e_barkmann -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/31/2008 1:59:27 AM)

Scarily, I concur with RH.  

Great game and one of the few that automatically gets put back on my HD after a re-format.


cheers



Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/31/2008 3:37:33 AM)

I just downloaded a copy from DR on RH's REC.

Paid for the boxed-version, too.

Total was $52.48.

You gotta wonder, though, if these games wouldn't sell better if they were discounted after a period of time. [sm=sad-1361.gif]

PoE (aka ivanmoe)



Zakhal -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/31/2008 4:54:02 AM)

I have always looked into buying both. These are kind of unique games atleast from looks. Currently the price is 53,46 EUR (shipping included) for both physical. Not bad. Need to try the demo first though.



ravinhood -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/31/2008 5:48:31 AM)

I would agree with pricing on some of these games after so many years. They do have those christmas specials, but, they need to have quarterly specials on something I think for those bargain bin hunters out there like me. ;)
But, I thank you guys for supporting KOIOS anyways. ;) I don't often recommend any games lol unless they are bargain bin, but, I've said it before I'll say it again Deride does things right most of the time the first time. ;) You can bet if I do recommend one I really do like it a lot and it gives me what I am looking for out of the game. This one doesn't have everything, but, it has a challenging nail biting AI and it plays fast within an hour or so. It has that one more turn element and it's pretty colorful even by todays standards. One of the first things I noticed after the battle and seeing the battle report I lose like 16000 men as opposed to 18 or 180 in RTW lol big difference for sure.



Agrippa -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/31/2008 6:22:37 PM)

Happy to hear the reviews on this game.  I have thought about buying it in the past, now I think I actually will.

Thanks!



ravinhood -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/31/2008 6:36:10 PM)

If Matrix doesn't already they should offer these up as a bundle at a reduced price. :) I was going to get TS:A last christmas, but, Matrix threw me a curve ball and didn't add it to the list. lol



Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (3/31/2008 8:12:03 PM)

Marketing Note: The screenshots that I've seen posted, here, and at gaming websites don't do justice to the artwork in the game. Not only are the figures very nicely done, but the rest of the art in Julius Caesar is as well. IMO, it's about as polished a game as you'll find in the Matrix catalog. It's a shame that M$ couldn't include something like this with Vista (rather than Purble Place and/or Inkball)

PoE (aka ivanmoe)



ravinhood -> RE: Tin Soldiers:Caesar Revisited (4/1/2008 9:19:12 AM)

I'll tell yah one thing this AI is good at and that's flanking and exploiting openings in your lines to then disrupt you and just stomp your legions one after the other. But, considering the barbarians apparently get 2 to 1 odds against you it makes it pretty easy for it to use all it's cavalry to exploit your flanks and shaken units. I can't believe the barbarian cavalry is so much better than the Roman cavalry in this game though. It just makes mince meat of my 2 cav stands and then gets in the rear and makes mince meat of any routed stands I have. I'm really amazed I am eeking out minor victorys even with the slaughterfest these barbarians get away with. ;) But, as I recall that's the way it was when I had played it the first time around. I've always liked this AI after the patch and getting a major victory is going to be hard on hard difficulty I can see that right now. ;) Most of the barbarian infantry is weak and I can just do a stonewall defense and let them beat their heads against it, but, the scenario time limits prevent that exploit for the most part as you don't have time to really whittle the barbarins down because you HAVE to get those objective flags before time runs out or you'll most likely lose. This last battle they held me from getting the 3rd flag so yet another minor victory for me. ;) Least I ain't lost one ...YET! lol



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